Yep

[BarryBobPosthole]

8384

[airbud7]

as long as I can keep my same doctor.

[HideHunter]

No, No.. if you like your plan.....

[BarryBobPosthole]

I know we don't ever let facts get in the way of things around here, and granted, that was a very stupid thing to promise, but the fact is, the people that 'lost' their plans did so because the plans didn't meet the requirements of the new law and they had to be discontinued. Now that doesn't get Obama off the hook for saying stupid shit, but saying stupid shit and claiming that somehow Obamacare caused people to lose their coverage are two different things. People didn't lose coverage, they lost a plan that was no longer in line with current law.
I suppose we should have included a Republican voter plan in Obamacare that offered a plan that still had preexisting condition clauses and didn't cover birth control and didn't allow kids to stay on their parent's plan while they were in college.
And the other reason plans were discontinued? Because insurers, who have been enjoying record profits if you care to look, pulled plans that they claimed they were losing money on.

what is going to happen is people are going to get fed up to the point where we will all of us be on medicare and the insurance companies can then skim what's left in the supplemental marketplace.

BKB

[Captain]

Be damned the conquences as long as Obummercare is gone.

[BarryBobPosthole]

So do you buy your insurance through Obamacare? Or are you just concerned for all the people who do?

BKB

[Thumper]

Ya' know ... I've never commented on any of the posts regarding this subject, because, truthfully, I'm totally ignorant of the details. Lynn has coverage through her work ... I have Medicare and VA coverage, so I simply haven't had to deal with it. All I know is, Conservatives despise it. I really don't know if that's because Conservatives just plain ol' hate O'bummer and anything he stands for, or if the whole thing really does suck big weenies. I honestly don't know. What I do know is that as soon as Obamacare went into effect, Lynn's insurance premiums jumped up quite a bit. To be honest, it seemed a bit suspect to me and I took the easy route by blaming Obamacare, but I really don't know the actual mechanics of the way all of that works. It may be related ... or it may have been a total coincidence ... I have no clue.

That said, I've often wondered what I would do if I were younger and all of a sudden the government decided to pull the plug on my VA coverage. They already f'd with it back in the 90's when they decided what I was promised as an incentive to JOIN the military over 45 years ago, wasn't to their liking. Now THAT really pissed me off. I could understand "adjusting" the coverage for anyone joining from that point forward ... and existing plans stayed intact, but they just flat-out decided what was promised ... would no longer stand. That, to me, was a huge slap in the face and simply seems grossly unfair and just plain wrong. Also, that change is the major ... no, really the ONLY reason Lynn and I have not gotten married. If I marry, I'd lose my VA coverage. Well, not completely, but it would cost me so much, I may as well purchase commercial coverage under Obamacare. That said, I'm not even sure I'd be able to purchase coverage WITHOUT Obamacare due to preexisting conditions. So that is one major plus I will accredit to Obamacare. There may be more, but that one really stands out to me. Again, I haven't studied the program and probably won't ... unless a time comes to where I'd need to.

Bottom line is, even though I could give a rat's ass if Obama fell off the face of the earth, to keep an open mind, I honestly don't know how well the positives stand up against the negatives regarding Obamacare. I just wonder how many people bitch and moan about it simply because Obama is the one who forced it through? What would "we" think about this same plan if Reagan had implemented it? (BTW, that's an honest question, but I don't really expect an honest, informed and factual answer)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, that is a reasonable statement IMO. I don't claim to know much about it myself, but can only speak from my own experience. My premiums through my work went up on average 10-15 per cent per year until Obamacare came along. Verizon absorbed the increases of the premiums for a few of the years so i was somewhat protected.
If you google it though, you'll see that a number of studies, like Kaiser Foundation for example have shown that premium cost increases have overall actually gone down under Obamacare. the problem is, the premium increases for the past 20 years, including Obamacare years, have risen faster than what workers wages have risen so health care is eating a bigger and bigger hole in their income. I can tell you that as a retiree its pretty much my number one concern.
One of the reasons for increases, and one we've argued on here about, is that the people who have insurance end up paying for the people who get treated that don't have insurance. The one big accomplish,ent of Obamacare is the number of people who actually have insurance has really gone up. So according to the theory we heard all these years about one of the big drivers of cost is the uninsured, you'd think that there would be some savings passed along because of the that number going drastically down. Hasn't happened. Now is Obamacare to blame for that? You decide.
So I guess the Republican plan will address that? Because as sure as shit, when those people come off the insurance rolls, the insurance companies are gonna piis iin our Post Toasties with more cost increases to supposedly cover them. And how to you keep them buying it without an individual mandate that they have to have it?

Its not as straightforward as folks paint it. Does Obamacare need fixing? Hell yeah it does. Will repealing it without addressing the things Obamacare is helping to fix do us any good? You frigging decide.

BKB

[Arty]

The average premiums are lower? What kinda crack are you smoking????


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[airbud7]

I often wonder why its such a big topic/panic situation when only a small percent of the 330,000,000 americans that actually have it...and 70 percent of those had insurance before Obamacare

[BarryBobPosthole]

The average premiums are lower? What kinda crack are you smoking????


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Read much? I said the yearly increase in costs are lower with Obamacare.

BKB

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/

[Captain]

Y'all are smoking crack. Premiums are high as hell under Obummer care! And don't even think about suggesting deductibles are lower. That crap has gone stupid.

[Arty]

Barry you are seriously seriously either drunk or dumb. My premiums have gone UP the last 6 years while my coverage has gone DOWN and my deductible has gone UP.
Give me some examples of regular folks that have not experienced the exact same as me. Anyone here on this forum have the better coverage for a higher price? I doubt it.


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[Captain]

Hell no. The only reason premiums have not gone sky high is because they increased the deductible and out of pocket code.
This crap need to go!

[BarryBobPosthole]

You fuckers cannot read. I'm done trying to explain in plain english what I already explained in plain english.

Which means you will love Trumps plan which has never been written in english or any other langiage.
BKB

[Thumper]

My premiums have gone UP the last 6 years while my coverage has gone DOWN and my deductible has gone UP.

I still don't really have any practical experience to draw on for an educated conclusion. Lynn had coverage at work for close to 10 years, but it was 100% paid for by Hyatt. Her hotel was bought out by a large consortium the same year Obamacare entered the picture. They have a different carrier and her insurance coverage went up as well as her deductibles. Problem is, due to the timing of the change-over, I have no clue if it had anything at all to do with Obamacare.

[Big Muddy]

Postie.....awwww, come on, mayn....give the guy a chance....you might be pleasantly surprised, NOT having a career politician running things for a change. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't have any problem listening to his plan. So tell me, what is his plan?

BKB

[airbud7]

I don't have any problem listening to his plan. So tell me, what is his plan?



To take over the house and senate and shove it down your throat!!!

Oh wait...that was Obama.

[Captain]

You fuckers cannot read. I'm done trying to explain in plain english what I already explained in plain english.

Which means you will love Trumps plan which has never been written in english or any other langiage.
BKB

I can read and understand what you said.
I said the reasons the premiums have not gone sky high is BECAUSE out of pocket have increased as well as deductibles and coverage has been cut too.
So there is NO WAY a case can be made that preminums are increasing LESS. BECAUSE the coverage is less and the cost to the INSURED is MORE. You cannot compare apples to apples when Obummer replaced all the apples with lemons.

[quercus alba]

I don't have any problem listening to his plan. So tell me, what is his plan?

BKB


Build a wall and have Mexico pay for it

[BarryBobPosthole]

Your argument isn't with me. Argue with the insurance industry people that did these studies and with politifact. I guess they are part of the vast conspiracy against you and Trump and his zany ideas.

So believe what you want.

But are seriously telling me that in the eight years that conservatives have been bitching and moaning and slinging snot and trying to repeal obamacare that they don't have a plan to replace it? Is it secret? If it isn't secret and if it exists then just show it to me. Is that not a fair question?
BKB

[Captain]

It was a f>|€ing fair question back years ago too, remember from the man that said he would not allow congress to pass any law without it being posted and all Americans that wanted to had time to read and understand it. Remember "we got to pass it to see what's in it"???? Remember that shit.... why were you not screaming foul back then?
I personally don't give a good damn what the plan is. I don't care if it's worse, I don't care if it better. I just want what that lying SOB passed gone.
Clear enough?

[LJ3]

Conservatives say liberals are ramming government control down our throats and fucking up our existing medical coverage. Liberals say greedy corporations are fucking us raw and the government can make it all better. Like everything in life, the truth is in the middle somewhere.

Personally, my shit keeps going up and it got much worse after the ACA was passed. Of that I am certain.

Postholes postulate prolly deserves a look-see in this clusterfuckshitstorm where we're all gonna lose.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Airbud! Listen up!

If you're gonna catch big fish you gotta use the right bait.

Capice?

BKB

[Thumper]

Airbud! Listen up! If you're gonna catch big fish you gotta use the right bait. Capice? BKB


It's a long, slow and difficult journey working up to an official SD'er badge Airbud. Watch the masters at work ... you'll catch on. :biggrin


:GH Shit Disturber

[Arty]

I'm still waiting on some effer to chime in saying his coverage got better and his premiums went down.



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[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm still waiting on some effer to chime in saying his coverage got better and his premiums went down.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nobody ever said that dillweed.

BKB

[airbud7]

Here Arty


I said the yearly increase in costs are lower with Obamacare
My coverage got better and my premiums went down.

Fucking Obama lovers around here lie like he does/ Say one thing then say they never fucking said it!

No wonder Trump won/ fucking left wing wackos!

[Captain]

AirBud the REAL art of SDing is thinking of a argument you want to make and leading someone into making a statement where you can bitch slap them with your words of wisdom....

[airbud7]

I'll get there one day Cappy....Thanks Bro!


http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150807073434-donald-trump-gop-debate-thumbs-up-august-6-full-169.jpg

[Chicken Dinner]

Here Arty



Fucking Obama lovers around here lie like he does/ Say one thing then say they never fucking said it!

No wonder Trump won/ fucking left wing wackos!

Just because someone sees Mr. Trump for the small minded little man that he truly is doesn't mean they have to like Mr. Obama, or, especially HRC.


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[Captain]

I'd like to be small minded enough to make that many billions....

[Captain]

8387

[Big Muddy]

11 days --- 8 hours --- 21 minutes --- 37 seconds.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'd like to be small minded enough to make that many billions....

And therein lies the rub, to quote old Billy. So you overcome and ignore any doubts for obvious character flaws the guy has just because of his success at earning money. Money trumps everything else when it comes to character. And the Republican Party has historically claimed the moral high ground in every national election I can remember. Now the facade comes off and we know really and truly what is important.

I'm proud I'm a leftist foodie liberal if that is the case.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I'd say they still have the moral high ground especially if you consider the differences in the party platforms when it comes to right to life issues.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

That's always the killer 'zing' from the right.

Just because I believe that neither you nor the government has any business telling me and my wife what our reproductive decisions are doesn't mean that I believe in abortion. We don't value life any less, we just have a fundamental disagreement on when it begins. Hardly higher moral ground. Your beliefs are based on your religion and that is perfectly fine. But we live in a secular society when it comes to governing. Otherwise, we'd need to give the Taliban the same rights as you.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I never mentioned religion, you did.

I guess I don't consider abortion a reproductive decision. That decision was obviously made earlier to make the abortion seem necessary.

If life begins when the baby is "born"'in the common understanding, how can someone be charged with two counts of murder if they kill a pregnant woman and the baby she is carrying dies also? How can it be a baby in one instance and not in the other?




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[Big Muddy]

Great point, DDog!!!!!....I can't wait for the rebuttal, but gotta feeling it might be a while..............so far, crickets.

[Captain]

I could give a rats ass about what you and your wife "reproductive decisions" are.
Wear a rubber, take the pill, Get your tubes tied, cut your balls off, swallow I don't care.
But once a child is conceived it ain't no longer only you and your wife. There IS a third person involved that cannot speak for their self. From that point on "you and your wife" don't have the right to kill that human. Don't want to have a baby? See my 2nd sentence..... there's the options.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well you seem to know it all already so its an easy decision for you. Just stay the fuck out of my business. If I want to practice birth control I will and won't base it on someone else's 'beliefs'. Instead I'll base the decision on what I think i know and you can go fuck yourselves. I'm doing no different than you. We just don't believe the same thing. So stop trying to make your belief's become law over mine. Just practice it the way you believe it and we should both be happy.

Oh wait, I forgot. Like the Taliban you think I should have to live my life the way you see fit.

BKB

[Captain]

Boy you opened a whole nother' can of worms.
So if you believe crack cocaine is OK we need to leave you alone. If you think it's OK to murder folks for whatever reason we need to leave you alone. Got it.

[Captain]

Well you seem to know it all already so its an easy decision for you. Just stay the fuck out of my business. If I want to practice birth control I will and won't base it on someone else's 'beliefs'. Instead I'll base the decision on what I think i know and you can go fuck yourselves. I'm doing no different than you. We just don't believe the same thing. So stop trying to make your belief's become law over mine. Just practice it the way you believe it and we should both be happy.

Oh wait, I forgot. Like the Taliban you think I should have to live my life the way you see fit.

BKB

And THAT AirBud is how you catch a bigger fish. :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

Boy you opened a whole nother' can of worms.
So if you believe crack cocaine is OK we need to leave you alone. If you think it's OK to murder folks for whatever reason we need to leave you alone. Got it.

Crack cocaine and murder is against the law. Abortion isn't and hasn't been since 1973. Trump is punting this issue to the states, by the way. He's your man.

BKB

[Captain]

For the life of me I cannot follow you. So if a law is passed then you would be OK with it?

And on another note. You are always in tune with the American Indian and their ways. You can talk till you are blue in the face and you cannot convince me those folks would have ever condoned abortion. As spiritual as they were, (Not religious)
They were very in tune with nature and would have never thought of interfearing with the birth of a child. They would have seen it as the gift it is.

[Arty]

Crack cocaine and murder is against the law. Abortion isn't and hasn't been since 1973. Trump is punting this issue to the states, by the way. He's your man.

BKB

Earlier today I called my neighbor and told him there was a big sale down at bass pro (there wasn't, I lied). I waited for his truck to leave and then told my wife I was going to work in the yard (I wasn't, I lied).
I snuck over to the neighbors house and had sex with his wife for 3 hours. My wife walked in right at the end, told my neighbor, and now both of us are getting divorced, the kids don't understand and are hurt, and me and the mistress are filing bankruptcy after we rack up all of our credit cards.


All that isn't against the law. Nary a law was broken. So there is no way I could be wrong. I don't know why everyone is so upset at me.


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[LJ3]

Open for bidness my SD fuckface friends!

[Arty]

I musta done it when I replied. Axadentlee

[Captain]

Arty, I knew you were lying when you said you had sex for 3 hours.
3 minutes perhaps... prolly a typo.

[Arty]

Artistic Liberty


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[Arty]

Oh - and bite me.


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[Captain]

Lol

[DeputyDog]

Well, at one time, the same court that made abortion legal also decided that people of African descent weren't allowed to be citizens. That same court decided that segregation, "separate but equal", was legal.

That don't make any of it right.


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[airbud7]

And THAT AirBud is how you catch a bigger fish. :D

that was nice right there Cappy...you had him in the boat in no time.

btw...what was your drag setting?

[Captain]

I had it set liberally. :D

[Thumper]

Deputy, you (and Cappy) are LEOs. Think about what that acronym stands for. Now, do you enforce only the laws that YOU believe are "morally" right? Only the laws you personally agree with? Do you pick and choose? I'm just curious.

I can relate to what P-hole is saying. EVERYBODY is allowed their opinions. The one HUGE problem I've always had with religion is, it's always "my way or the highway". Science can say one thing, but if it doesn't agree with your personal belief, it's bad science. According to the Bible, Earth is only a few thousand years old, yet I'm considered a heathen if I call b/s.

Concerning the always controversial abortion issue, as long as a couple operates within the confines of the law, it's nobody else's business what choices they make. Anyone can have an opinion, but nobody has the right to tell another that their opinion is wrong.

[Captain]

Wrong, old Florida cracker.
It ain't a religious thing. It's a human thing.
It ain't just a couple anymore once a baby is conceived. It is now three and one can't speak for itself.
Do you think if it could it would vote to be aborted?
It is wrong to use abortion as birth control. Birth control happens BEFORE a baby is made not after.

[Chicken Dinner]

So, if a woman is gang raked by a gang of illegal Mexicans that make it through the wall, no abortion?


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[Captain]

So, if a woman is gang raked by a gang of illegal Mexicans that make it through the wall, no abortion?


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Why would they rake her?

Adoption not abortion.

[Thumper]

And what if that rape victim has a pregnancy problem that could cost her her life? When is an abortion not an abortion?

[Big Muddy]

HA, we "raked" some mallards, yesterday. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

For the life of me I cannot follow you. So if a law is passed then you would be OK with it?

And on another note. You are always in tune with the American Indian and their ways. You can talk till you are blue in the face and you cannot convince me those folks would have ever condoned abortion. As spiritual as they were, (Not religious)
They were very in tune with nature and would have never thought of interfearing with the birth of a child. They would have seen it as the gift it is.

WhewI I gots some catching up to do, but Captain first.

I thought I made it pretty clear than I do not condone abortion in any way shape or form, unless it would threaten the life of the mother. I've raised four kids who also abhor the act of abortion. BUT, I and everyone in my family believes that our personal beliefs on the matter are just that and we respect the rights and freedoms of others to choose their own beliefs. My point is, that is what the current law says and has said since 1973. There's lots of stuff that is legal that we also don't practice or do. That's because our country gives us the FREEDOM to exercize our own sets of values as long as its within the law.

I don't know what injuns felt about abortion or if they practiced it or banned it. Interesting topic though.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Looks like you're all singing the same illogical tune.

This is an especially touchy topic for me if the woman's health is involved in the pregnancy. Why oh why would we want the government, and not the woman and her family to make that very difficult decision? I know, you want a nanny, not a government!

And Deputy, I have heard this countless times from conservatives whenever reparations for slavery comes up. "I never owned any slaves, why should I make reparations". Same here. I don't believe in any form of discrimination by laws or by the government. Bigotry however, is not illegal. Its a choice. Homosexuality used to be illegal. For those of you who think its immoral, would you like to go back to it being illegal? Won't you burn in hell for being one? Shouldn't we force our beliefs on them too?

Like I said before, I have the same views toward abortion that you all do. I just think people should be able to choose what their beliefs are, not be told by Congress. Birth control decisions should be made ahead of time. But I also know that in my state, which is red as hell, we lead the nation in teen pregnancies, we have more families that won't and don't and can't feed or educate their kids and we'd have even more of the same if abortion were outlawed.
The same republican elected officials who want to make abortion illegal also have worked hardest at cutting programs that support the people that need them the most: children. They don't give two fucks about the kids they claim are murdered.

BKB

[Captain]

Well when I become king of the world it will be illegal except in cases of a woman's health to be determined by a doctor.

[BarryBobPosthole]

The other difference in what I believe is that I don't claim to know when a soul enters a person's body. To have a soul requires a thinking brain, and a two cell fetus at conception has no thoughts. When does that begin? I don't know. That's one of the reasons why I don't personally condone it. But you who claim to know you know when life begins. You have no proof, except what your Bible tells you even though it never EVeR addresses the topic whatsoever. And you have the arrogance to think you can tell me how I should think about it.

Petooooie on youse.

BKB

[Captain]

To have a soul requires a thinking brain
Do you even think about what you are saying? So when a person dies and their brain stops working or worms eat the brain up there is no longer a soul?
WOW....
Thats some weak tea Posty.

PS: who made that "requirement"?

[Chicken Dinner]

Well when I become king of the world it will be illegal except in cases of a woman's health to be determined by a doctor.

So, you admit killing babies is okay in certain circumstances. Do, I guess we're just arguing over which circumstances.


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[Captain]

Sure it could be but very rare. Sorta as rare as the death sentence is carried out. About one every 10 years.

[Chicken Dinner]

Gotcha. Hypocrisy and killing babies is okay as long as you only do it once every 10 years.


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[Captain]

Yes
If that's what you took out of the reply.

[Thumper]

Ummm, I'm sure you realize a soul is a spiritual/religious belief, correct? It's spiritual, rather than physical, so in a way, it's immaterial. (sorry, I just wanted to slip another "al" word in there.) ;)

[airbud7]

Life gets tough when your at the top of the food chain. Complex reasoning pushed us humans here, The need for self-preservation applies.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Do you even think about what you are saying? So when a person dies and their brain stops working or worms eat the brain up there is no longer a soul?
WOW....
Thats some weak tea Posty.

PS: who made that "requirement"?

As we have discussed, I believe when you die your ethos or soul or intellect or whatever contiunues to exist in some state. But not in your body. and I don't think that a two cell gamete at the time of conception has an ethos or soul or intellect. Granted, they are alive but like a cell that divides, until it is a viable entity it is simply a part of the whole. when does that happen with a human? I don't know. You claim to know. I'm not sure how, as you've yet to explain how you know. My suspiciion is you don't know either. and you'd like me to live under the rules of your ignorance. I prefer to live under the rules of my own ignorance3 sine I am the one that will suffer the consequence.

BKB

[LJ3]

I'm pretty sure the only thing that will facilitate understanding in this discussion is untaxed likker.

[Captain]

So when someone dies as all their cells go away (however long that takes) then the soul dies?
I don't understand how at some point the soul "wakes up" and become a thing and remains for ever.
If you need to think that a human needs to be so "old" to get its soul to justify your position I'm good with that.
I believe the soul is alive at conception.
It's my belief and who knows we both may be wrong!
However I stand firm on my belief that it's wrong to use abortion as a birth control method.
It's wrong on its own merits. And I hope it does become against the law. I'm that firm...

[Captain]

I'm pretty sure the only thing that will facilitate understanding in this discussion is untaxed likker.
Best suggestion I've heard all day. :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

Those are good questions Captain and I don't know the answers either. I'm not a religious person but I believe there is an intellect within us that doesn't die. where it goes when we do and what happens to it, I don't know. It may be that it becomes something else, who knows?
But here's what I think we do know. Or at least it what I think I know. Our human bodies have evolved over the years from some sort of pre-human to whatever we are today. I think there is plenty of scientific evidence to support that, and I believe it in a general sense. I also think that our intellect as humans has similarly evolved as the capacity of our brains has evolved to support it. So, to be brief, I think that much of our intellect is created within our own brains and the capacity to create that intellect doesn't exist in an unformed brain. So when we say life begins at conception, sure it does. Does intellect and the things it takes to be human happen at conception? No. I think if we believe that life is all that's required to be holy and whole, then we'd better start rethinking how we treat other life on our planet too.

BKB

[Thumper]

I think ya' croak, ya' decompose into a puddle of slop and the worms eat'cha. End of story. ;)

Or, if you want a happy ending (who doesn't love a happy ending!) ;) .... ya' croak, your soul flies who-knows-where 'til it finds a soulless embryo somewhere to set up housekeeping, THEN ya' decompose into a puddle of slop and the worms eat'cha!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Thumper is a nihilist!
BKB

8389

[Thumper]

Naaaa, I'm just deplorable. ;)