An unpopular opinion, I'm sure

[LJ3]

Fuck that dude that got his ass beat on the United flight. You don't get to ignore federal law and defy them to do anything about it. I would have just tased his ass, though. Easier to fireman carry than drag his ass down the aisle.

Fuck him and fuck everyone else that thinks they're above the law. They say get off the plane, guess what the law requires you to do? Get the hell off the plane. Who you are and what you do for a living have no bearing at all. GTF off the plane.

[River1]

I gotta agree with you LJ... As the rest of the story comes out I'm sure we will see that he isn't as innocent as the news media would lead us to believe. It wasn't United that beat his ass and drug him off the plane. And he was a doctor?! If he didn't want to get bumped he should have bought a first class ticket. Bet none of teh first class passengers were asked to give up a seat.... Just saying....

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yes, a beatdown is always necessary when confronting a bespectacled, surly Asian. Who knows when they might break out some chopsocky on your ass and you'll be the one bouncing down the aisle.
I'll bet that's part of every air marshall's training.
I mean he was warned by those cops how many times?

BKB

[johnboy]

I agree with you most of the time Lemster but not on this one. Absolutely no way was it reasonable to apply that much violence to get someone to give up a seat. I hope he takes them for bazillions. I've put a lot of time into flying over the last few weeks and airlines need a lesson in customer service. Fuckers.

[airbud7]

Agree...Fuck that dude!.....When I say get off my plane i mean...>Get the fuck off my plane!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhlQgvHmQ0

[quercus alba]

I've got a serious question. When someone willfully refuses to obey a lawfully given order by a LEO, what should the LEO do?

[johnboy]

Who says that it was a lawfull order? Contract law applies here and the airline was wrong.

[quercus alba]

Let's take it beyond this incident. Say step out of your car please, or don't reach in your pocket again, keep you hands where I can see them or any of a hundred other things. I hear a lot of complaints but very little in the line of solutions. The world is full of idiots and getting worse with the media throwing gas on the fire

Cappy, your imput would be appreciated

[Thumper]

Well, I have mixed emotions, but that's persactly why I scrapped my career as a cop. I had to deal with people who "deserved" to have the shit beat out of them, but legally, it couldn't be done. Dao was a creep with a checkered history if all I've read is true. But, like Rodney King, who also had a checkered past, the "beating" was unjustified/illegal IMHO.

Where I'm a bit confused is, the way I understand it, the United employees could not convince him to get off the plane, so they summoned airport security and THEY were the one's who roughed him up. It seems the lawsuit should be aimed at Chicago O'Hare instead of United. This is going to cost United MUCH more than the payout they'll hand over to Dao ... their stock price is already tanking and potential future passengers are talking of boycotting the airline. It's a mess!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Just some perspective, the man is a 69 year old doctor.

BKB

[Thumper]

He's also a 69 year old asshole (but again, that doesn't make the beating right, it just puts it in perspective a bit more). And yes he's a doctor .... with a suspended license and his excuse for not deplaning was that he had "patients" to see the next morning! After he was initially removed from the plane, he ran back through the gate and re-boarded, so they had to deal with him again!

Dao was arrested in 2003 as part of an undercover operation. Two years later, Dao was convicted on six (originally 95) felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit and in 2005, he was sentenced to five years probation. Dao was also convicted for writing prescriptions and checks to a male patient in exchange for sexual favors. In February 2005, Dao surrendered his license to practice medicine in Kentucky.

The licensing records also reveal how Dao was “the subject of many complaints” while working at Hardin Memorial Hospital. The Medical Executive Committee there “took a strong stance in 2002, and put Dao on a corrective action plan due to his disruptive behavior” and referred him “for evaluation and anger management,” the papers say.

Still ... somebody's ass is grass once the attorneys get through with this little goldmine. Asshole or not, it was still lawfully wrong in the way it was handled.

[Trav]

I am with you LJ, when a LEO tells you to do something you do it. You can always seek some tyope of civil or criminal recourse later. As to contract law the contract of carriage you agree to when buying the ticket gives them the right revoke your ticket It's in the fine print as they say. Shitty, yes but still contractually allowed.

As an real life example I always buy two seats when I fly just to make sure both myself and any passenger next to me aren't squished together. A few months ago after being seated the flight attendant came by and asked me to trade seats so a young mother and child could sit together. I said no and she rushed off to get the head flight attendant, when she came to talk to me I explained that I had paid for both seats and by trading my seat that defeats the the whole point. She said she would go see what else could be done but she might have to come back. It worked out they didn't have to come back but if they had and demanded I move or get off the flight I would have gotten off. Now I would have raised hell about it with customer service and the DOT but it would have never gotten to the point that I would have made them physically remove me from the plane.

[Thumper]

I always buy two seats when I fly just to make sure both myself and any passenger next to me aren't squished together.

Dang! I'd hate to see your travel expenses! Do they double your flyer miles when you travel? ;)

[DeputyDog]

Just some perspective, the man is a 69 year old doctor.

BKB

A doctor who had his license suspended for trading pain meds for sex.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

So let's trash the victim here. There is no excuse for that kind of policing. If you think its necessary to treat air passengers that way if they don't want to follow the airline'srules, then we'll just have to disagree.

BkB

[Trav]

Dang! I'd hate to see your travel expenses! Do they double your flyer miles when you travel? ;)

You know they don't double your miles and it's bull crap, I have had that argument with them as well.

[Trav]

You see a victim, I see a rabble rouser who had it coming. To be clear here he was treated that way for not obeying the Chicago Aviation Police. The airline asked him to deplane once he refused they called The Chicago Aviation Police which is a state certified law enforcement agency. At that points it's not any different that refusing to follow the commands of any police officer.

[BarryBobPosthole]

https://youtu.be/1Y8HdeHtOJs

[Thumper]

I'm not really sure why United is the main target. The way I understand it, United employees asked him numerous times to deplane and he refused, then became belligerent. United then contacted the Airport Police and THEY are the one's who roughed him up and dragged him off the plane. 100% of the complaints I've heard or read about are aimed at United. Am I missing something?

[BarryBobPosthole]

The truth, mainly.

BKB

[Trav]

The truth, mainly.

BKB
The truth that only the liberal inteligencia is privy to, us common folk couldn't possibly understand Thumper.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Shit disturber.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm kind of with Len on this. Should United have better customer service? Hell, yes. But, he chose to ignore a lawful request from an LEO to get the hell off the plane and chose not to.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yes, deny a request, get a beat down. We should make all cops judge jury and executioner. That'd make everything better.

Escalate!

BKB

[LJ3]

He had to be removed from the seat as per regulations. How he left the seat was completely within his control and influence. Have you seen the video with the attendant practically begging him to give up the seat and telling him the cops were on the way?

Shoulda just tased his ass and been done with it.

[quercus alba]

Set the taser to stun Scottie

[Chicken Dinner]

I didn't see any kicking or punching done by the po-po. So, where's the beat down? Seriously, if you make them drag you out of a tight spot you're liable to get hurt. So, don't do that. Seems simple enough...

[LJ3]

No CD, he's an innocent victim of unwarranted authoritarian brutality. I mean, he didn't want to get off the plane and he said that.

This is why I drink, people.

FFS.

[LJ3]

They TOLD him what they would have to do if he didn't get off the plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgieOw2120c

[Trav]

Shit disturber.

BKB

Thanks for noticing

[Captain]

He needed his ass whopped a lot worse than he got.
Rule #1 it ain't your plane, dumbass
Rule #2 Police tell you you're going, the option of how is the only choice you have.
Rule #3 If you screw up and make a bad decision on Rule #2, see Rule #1

[airbud7]

Dao was arrested in 2003 as part of an undercover operation. Two years later, Dao was convicted on six felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit and in 2005, he was sentenced to five years probation. Dao was also convicted for writing prescriptions and checks to a MALE patient in exchange for sexual favors.

In February 2005, Dao surrendered his license to practice medicine in Kentucky.

[LJ3]

Honestly, I don't give a single F about his character or what he's done in his life. It's not relevant to what he did and what he got in return. though, an argument could be made that it was a lovely karma sammich for him :)

8810

[Thumper]

Ha ha ha Airbud! You just got busted and lost quite a few noticer points with that last post. Man-o-man, that official G/H Noticer badge is slipping farther and farther away! (See my post on 4/14, 8:41 pm) ;)

[LJ3]

He's never gonna get any of the badges worthy of envy at this rate.

[airbud7]

I don't need no stinking badge...

[BarryBobPosthole]

You fuckers remind me of the old curmudgeons that sat around the barber shop bitching about protesters back during the Nixon days. In fact, a lot about these times remind me of Nixon days.

I guess what you all are saying is that civil disobedience should be answered with institutional violence. And the slimy fuckers deserve what they get.

BKB

[Thumper]

Uhhh, yeah ... pretty much.

[Thumper]

Posty the copper: "DROP THE GUN AND GET ON THE GROUND!!!!"

Scumbag: "F-you!!"

Posty: "OK, DROP THE GUN AND PUT YOUR HANDS UP!!!!"

Scumbag: "Kiss my ass fuzz!!"

Posty: "Ok, just put your hands up ... I'll come get the gun from you!"

Scumbag: "Can't make me!"

Posty: "Will you pleeeeeease .... pretty-pretty-pretty please just set the gun down gently and talk to me?"

Scumbag: Eat shit Pig!"

Posty: "Ok a-hole, I'm gonna tase your f'ing ass!!!"

Scumbag: "DO IT ... and I'll sue your swine ass for bazillions!"

Posty: "Ok buddy, you can go on your way ... have a nice day, but try not to shoot anyone else with that thing."

Scumbag: I will if I want ... what'cha gonna do about it?"

Posty: "Sorry to have bothered you sir." :stirthepot

[BarryBobPosthole]

That's not what happened in this case. You're rationalizing shit that is wrong so you'll feel better.

BKb

[Captain]

There is a time and place for everything Posty. If he felt he was wronged by having to leave the plane he could take it to court.
I always like those folks that wanted to try the case on the side of the road while I was giving them a fast driving award.
Those were the ones I remembered come courtday. When theirn attorney asked for a reduction I fought it. Anyone that did not give me lip, I always told their attorney anything you can get the DA to agree to I'm fine with.
So I guess the only people that have to obey a lawful request are the ones that don't object. Right?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Nope, I have no issue at all with making people obey lawful requests. Its that I don't believe that broken teeth, jaws, sinuses, and bouncing a 69 year old man off of an armrest is fucking necessary in order to do that. Is that part of le training? The man was passively resisting. Is breaking bones part of le procedure for passively resisting people who've not been charged with any crime? Is that what we epect of law enforcement?



BKB

[Captain]

Yes...
If that's all you "saw" that he did then yes, because reality is not with you so I might as well tell you what you are going to hear anyway.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I suppose then you'd be as satisfied if it was a 69 year old woman?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

There's big difference between legitimate political protest and self-entitled asshole. You're trying to compare this guy to MLK or Abbey Hoffman which is quite a stretch.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not comparing him to anybody. I'm not talking about civil disobedience. I'm talking about passive resistance, which is what he did. And y'all are saying passive resistance merits anass beating. I just disagree. And I ain't gonna change your mind and you ain't gonna change mine. This shit ain't that hard that it requires a beatdown.

BKB

[LJ3]

Come on, man. Civil disobedience? You're too smart to believe that. I call shenanigans!

[Captain]

So it OK to hold up an airliner that cost thousands to just sit there on the runway, it's OK to make all the other people have to wait, it's OK to make all the other people uncomfortable having to listen to you holler, it's OK to buy a ticket and agree to the companies policies that state sometimes flights are over booked and you may have to be pushed to another flight, it's OK to tell the police I ain't gonna do what to lawfully told me to do, take me to jail. It OK as long as you act like a peaceful asshole to inconvenience all those folks without any recourse.
Makes perfect sense to a liberal. To me it's batshit crazy and he needed his ass whooped no matter his age.

[Captain]

Passive resistance to what end Posty? Just have everyone just sit there until he gets tired in a day or two and decided to get off the plane? Or give in to him and make someone else give up their seat?
What you gonna do, just sit there for hours?
Best thing to do is tell all passengers the plane ain't leaving until the stubborn Asshole leaves, then walk off after about an hour there would be a couple of rednecks chunk his ass out the window!
So you are good at saying what should not have been done, tell me how it should have been handled then. How would YOU have gotten his ass off the plane?

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been removed. I'm saying they could have done it without giving him a concussion.

BKB

[Captain]

Monday morning quarterbacking a job/duty you have never had to do....
He could have walked off with his noggin intact. HE chose not too. See Rule #2

[johnboy]

and the airline could have resolved this issue with absofuckinglutely no violence by offering ALL passengers enough money to make it worth someones while to relinquish a seat that they had bought and paid for. It was a stupid way for them to react and I hope the abused passenger gets many millions. They need to be taught a lesson and money seems to be all they understand.

[DeputyDog]

So after he pushed it to the point that United called the police in the officer came on board and without saying a thing to him grabbed ahold of him and beat him?


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[DeputyDog]

I guess what you all are saying is that civil disobedience should be answered with institutional violence. And the slimy fuckers deserve what they get.

BKB


Another name for this type of civil disobedience is passive resistance. This wasn't a sit in at a diner because blacks can't sit at the counter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Captain]

No one bought and paid for a seat on that plane. Only the airline company ever paid for those seats.
Someone rented a seat for a few hours and agreed to company policy and contract that occasionally a flight is overbooked and they may need to be moved to another flight. He showed his ass and got it spanked.
That dufe didn't buy and pay for anything on that plane....
I hope he don't get a dime.

[Captain]

And I noticed Barry did not say HOW he would have removed the dufe.

[BarryBobPosthole]

No, this was a person who was passively protesting the actions of a company. Your only argument obviously is to make mine seem like something it isn't. You tell me what actions justify knocking a 69 year old man's front teeth out, causing him sinus injuries, and giving him a concussion? What did the police accomplish by those actions that they couldn't have done without inflicting those injuries?

BKB

[Captain]

HOW WOULD YOU HAVE REMOVED HIM??
for the eleventhteen time.

[Captain]

He was not passively protesting the actions of a company. He was refusing the abide by his agreement with the company and holding up an entire plane load of people.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not a cop, but I do know they receive training in how to do stuff like that. I imagine three officers could handle a 69 year old man without injuring him, giving him a concussion, breaking his nose and two front teeth out. He wasn't even actively resisting. You're trying to imply it isn't possible. And these weren't Chicago police, these were aviation security guards who aren't even allowed to be armed.

Here's the statement by the Chicago Department of Aviation who run the security... “The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department,” Pride said in an email.

I guess they thought it was possible to do this without injury aswell.

BKb

[BarryBobPosthole]

And on top of that, police deal with mentally ill people and mentally distraught people, all the time who aren't actively resisting without injury. Whatever happened to 'only use force as a last resort'? Isn't that the mantra of most police training in deals like this?

FYi, the plane being late is not an excuse for using 'the last resort'.

And FYi again, I support the police in almost every situation you can think of and I think its terrible for people not to. But this was fucking wrong.

BKb

[Captain]

Yea, it was all the cops fault. The dumbass did nothing to start those wheels rolling. He was just sitting in His seat and the cops walked in the plane targeted him and whooped his ass... got it, he holds no responsibility to what happened to him.
And I missed the rule that says after you get to be a certain age you can show your ass and do whatever you want and you are exempt from a asswhoopin.

[BarryBobPosthole]

And there you go saying I said shit I never said or ever even meant.
Its the way you guys always argue shit.

Suit yourself. I'm done with this topic.
BKB

[Captain]

Sure you did.

[LJ3]

HOW WOULD YOU HAVE REMOVED HIM??
for the eleventhteen time.

Tickle fight!

[Thumper]

I don't believe the injuries came from a "beating". The way I understand it, they were trying to remove him from his seat and as he resisted by hanging onto the armrest. When they pulled him out, he hit his face on the armrest and that's where the injuries came from. Some are making it sound like the cops Rodney King'd the idiot and pummeled him with nightsticks or sumpin'. It's easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.

[Trav]

Where is the popcorn eating emoji

[airbud7]

Where is the popcorn eating emoji

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6Meo77zmEXc/Uxe4fJtWRqI/AAAAAAAAEEw/Hky2yP8VNoQ/w506-h708/GIF-Giraffe-eating-Popcorn.gif

[quercus alba]

Sometimes these pics Airbud comes up with makes me glad there's a thousand miles between us

[johnboy]

This whole schmozle was and is about money. The airlines maximize their profits by overbooking seats and treating paying customers like crap when they run short. They play the odds that there will not be a problem and that people will act like sheep and 'do what they are told'. Pisses me off, frankly and I think it is past time that the carriers had to pay for THEIR fuckup. The odds just ran out. I don't care what the passenger did or didn't do, who he was or what his criminal background might be. All that is irrelevant. They abused him physically and mentally and they need to pay big time. I believe that will will also see a drastic change in the industry in how overbooked situations are handled (like the latest announcement from Delta). I guarantee that someone would have given up a seat for a couple grand.

[Captain]

There is a WHOLE bunch of assumptions in your opinion that are stated as fact.
Don't want to fly commercially, buy your own plane.

[Hombre]

Johnboy - That may very well be true "its past time the airlines had to pay for their fuck-up" but that is really more in the court of public opinion. From a legal standpoint airlines have the authority to remove passengers from seats that are oversold, and customers have a federal obligation to obey crew members. In the court of public opinion there will definitely be a solid number of people who feel he was in the right, or at the very least excessive force was used. This will drive change, as you said above, but really only because it's far cheaper to have a policy and spend a little extra $$ than it is to have the public get in an uproar. There will also be a solid number of people that are in the "make stupid choices win stupid prizes" side. That's where I fall. Was it excessive, maybe, was it excessive enough for me to really care, no. I've made some pretty stupid decisions in my life. When I make stupid decisions I accept the consequences of those actions and move on.

[johnboy]

It will be interesting to see who a jury believes (if it gets to a jury). I've got a buck to bet on it and I pay up on my bets but don't think I'll need to in this case.

[johnboy]

Something may be 'legal' but that don't make it right.

[Hombre]

I'm not disagreeing that he may see some money. Again easier to settle....just because he gets money doesn't prove wrong doing.

[LJ3]

The flight was NOT overbooked. The flight was perfectly booked and full. THEN... United needed to fly some employees to another airport. True enough it's about money. United needed those employees to work a flight and make United some money. So they bumped off paying passengers for their employees they needed to get on the plane.

Shitty business practice? Yes. Fine print of ticket contract making this all completely on the up and up. Unfortunately, yes. Did the dude deserve to be injured? Not really. Was he injured because he refused to obey a lawful order? Yep.

See my original post a comment :)

[Hombre]

I disagree on "did he deserve to be injured" he was asked to leave which he was legally required to do. He resisted, and left little choice but to yank him out. You've been down a plane isle there isn't much room. The authority has to worry about it escalating and other passengers so they yanked him off quickly and he got banged around, but really not that bad. He pretty much reaped the consequences of his actions and it was deserved.

[LJ3]

I can't argue with that. I stand by my "tase his ass and fireman carry him off"

[Captain]

It all boils down to what I said on page two.
"Rule #1 it ain't your plane, dumbass
Rule #2 Police tell you you're going, the option of how is the only choice you have.
Rule #3 If you screw up and make a bad decision on Rule #2, see Rule #1"