Ken Burns - Vietnam

[Chicken Dinner]

Anybody watching? I'm sure you all that lived it, will find inconsistencies. Even though I lived in Laos in 1973-74, my knowledge is fairly spotty as I was too young to follow it in the news and it wasn't yet studied in history by the time I finished school. Interesting personal note, we left Laos before my Dad's tour was scheduled to be over (missed the collapse there) and came back to the States for my parents to take a year long intensive Vietnamese program. We were scheduled to move to Saigon in the summer of 1975. That obviously fell through and my Dad spent the next couple of years working on the refugee crisis.

Ever wonder what your number would have been if you were too young to be impacted by the draft?

https://www.usatoday.com/vietnam-war/draft-picker

It kind of brings it home in a weird way. I can't imagine how you guys must have felt at the time.



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[quercus alba]

#48

If my birthday was 5 days earlier I would have missed the draft

[Thumper]

I've seen one segment of the series but have it on my "watch if I can" list.

CD, we've discussed this before, but we may have very well crossed paths back in those days. I was based just outside (10 klicks) of Udorn from '72-'75, including a few months just outside of U-Tapao during the Saigon evacuation and the Mayaguez Incident. Whenever I was at Udorn AFB, I'd usually be hanging around the Air America compound. I believe you'd fly in on AA if I remember correctly. I also made a few (illegal, long story ;)) trips to the Embassy in Vientiane. I hate to ask this, because I should know, is your dad still around? If so, could you ask him if he ever knew Emory Swank? He was the deputy chief of mission in Laos, but that was long before your dad was there. He was the Ambassador to Cambodia, '70-'73 and went by "Coby" to close friends. He was a "rebel" and a no-bullshit kinda guy. He eventually pissed off the State Department by telling them stuff they did not want to hear. They retaliated by assigning him to some menial desk job someplace in Bumfuck. I have a letter from him here, basically thanking me for most likely saving his life (along with a large group of other dignitaries). Our entire unit received a Unit Citation because of it.

[Thumper]

Regarding the draft, my brother was #4 and they drafted up through #125. I was #51 and they drafted up through #95. We both joined before being drafted. My other 2 brothers (twins) also served, but they are younger and were in the service post Vietnam. Four boys and two girls in my family ... all 4 boys served.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I squeaked in under the wire. I turned 18 in 1972 and thatwas the last year they drafted for Viet Nam. My 1972 lottery number was 19, my 1973 (first lottery for those born in 1954) number was 350. I volunteered in 1975.

BKB

[Thumper]

Ya' lost me P-hole. How did you have TWO lottery numbers?

[BarryBobPosthole]

I didn't have two number. My lottery number the first year I was elgible was 350. I was explaining getting in under the wire by months. But for being born eight months later, my number would have been 19 in the last year they actually drafted (1972) and I would have been drafted for sure.

BKb

[Thumper]

Oh, I got'cha. Yeah, I hit the '72 lottery by 18 days (B/D 01/18/52) and drew #51. If I'd been born just 19 days earlier, putting me into the '71 lottery, I'd have been #60, so I'd have been screwed either way. :(

That said, when I look back, I had it made and was having a great time when my time came up. I had a bitchin' apartment, had a hottie girlfriend living with me, had a kick-ass car, a honkin' stereo system (VERY important to a 19 year old) and a VERY promising job/future when the draft lottery nabbed me. I thought the draft had ruined my world and totally screwed up my life ... not to mention the fact I faced the possibility of never returning home. BUT ... I would not have traded the experience for anything in the world and if it hadn't been for the lottery, I never would have considered enlisting.

[Chicken Dinner]

My Dad is still around and I'll check with him, Jim. I have great memories of Air America in Vientienne. Wednesday nights were Mongolian BBQ night and we'd go out there for dinner. Udorn AFB was a frequent weekend jaunt as we'd fly space available to go visit the PX. I'm not sure if that was an AA flight or not. They were these small cargo planes that would fly with the back door open and you could sit in next to last jump seat with only an Airman between you and the jungle below. Cool stuff for a 9-10 year old. Interesting story that I only heard about recently involving my Dad. But, he ran the "store" for the Vientienne Rod & Gun Club which was basically a steel shipping container in our car port and folks could come over one night a week and buy supplies. My Mom was just telling me that there was a false floor or wall in this thing and that occasionally someone spooky would stop by to pick up a special order.

I absolutely love SE Asia and the people are just amazing. At times, I wish I'd been a few year older....

[BarryBobPosthole]

I would love to visit SE Asia sometime, but my wife would never go. I wanna see that huge cave in
Viet Nam and for sure Ankor Wat. And I wannago diving at Phuket.

BKb

[Chicken Dinner]

Just curious, but why not? FYI, put Bali on your list as well.

[Thumper]

Holler when you're ready P-hole. I'd make a great guide. PLUS, I could always give you a little nudge to let you know that little Thai girl you're chatting with, is a dude. ;)

CD, speaking of spooky people, my buddy (Joe Torrey) may have visited that shipping container from time to time. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

We've been places in the Caribbean where we were the only white people in miles. Seriously. And she never bats an eye. Granted we keep our wits about us. Well except for that one time in the Garifuna village drinking tonic.
She perceives danger travelling to anywhere is Asia, most of Europe, and India. Its a fear born of predudice IMO, but it is what it is. So I'll have to be satisfied with the reat of he world.

BKB

[Thumper]

Frankly, if Lynn were not around, I'd be living there as we speak. It's been a dream all of my adult life and I'm totally in love with the country. Like your wife, Lynn has ZERO desire to go there. I don't really know why, heck, she's ASIAN. I guess there's a difference between East Asia and Southeast Asia in her mind. I don't know if it's some sort of prejudice or not. She has no problem with Japan, China, etc.

[Chicken Dinner]

I know it seems odd to us. But, there is a lot of "racist" or nationalist prejudices in other parts of the world that we just don't get. Maybe it's because we're such a melting pot, we tend to look at things as just black or white or brown or yellow. But, I've seen it many other regions where people have obvious biases against those from other countries. For example, Bolivians don't like Brazilians, Guatemalans don't like Mexicans and everybody hates the Colombians. (Heck, they're all just "Mexicans" to our POTUS.) Similar thing in places like India where lighter skinned people look down on darker skinned people.

[Thumper]

You're correct, it's all over the world. Same in Thailand ... the hoitie-toities are in the south and they look at anyone from Northern Thailand as being from "the other side of the tracks".

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't like Texans. Except for Bert and Ernie,

Does that count?

BKb

[jb]

I've watched two episodes, brings back a lot of memories. I was in the Marine Reserves from 63 to 69, and in college from 64 to 70, so I saw both sides.
Lot of good guys died because of politics both here and VN. Kennedy could have gotten us out in 62, but we already had lost 41 dead and he said he couldn't walk away and let the country fall or he wouldn't get reelected. 10 years later and 50K dead didn't change a damn thing.
We think today we have protests and ill feelings toward our government, you didn't see anything unless you lived through the 60's

[Chicken Dinner]

JB, that's the most discouraging thing. It seems like every President from Kennedy on knew we couldn't win and kept throwing lives and treasure at it due to internal US politics. The Vietnamese (at least this is the message) just wanted to run their own damn country. I can't blame them for that. I've got friends and family whose entire lives were changed by that war and truly bothers me.

[DeputyDog]

152. It was called in 1970.

Birthday three days earlier and wouldn't have been called.

As far as prejudices, I don't think the Koreans and Japanese are too fond of each other either.


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[LJ3]

You should hear a room full of Columbians and Argentinians talk about Mexicans. These young whiney fuckface americans think our country is racist. Not even close. Or maybe enjoy some Chinese people talking about Korean roofers. another good'un.

Oh... and I wanna watch the VN show.

[DeputyDog]

I have a friend that is from Nicaragua. Her dad is very prejudice towards Mexicans and blacks. I always kid her about being Mexican just to get a reaction out of her. I wouldn't even joke about it with her dad though.


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