State of politics

[DeputyDog]

This is getting ridiculous.

A bomb threat was made at the Republican headquarters in JB’s hometown, and the California state Democratic headquarters was evacuated due to a “suspicious package”.

The amount of hate being spewed by both sides is disgusting. We are turning into some third rate African or South American country where it’s ok to threaten, harass, or attempt to kill anyone who dares to disagree with you politically.

I guess no one should be surprised since both sides have been portraying the other as evil and doing their best to convince their followers that if the other side wins its the end of America as we know it and they must do everything they can to resist and hinder if the other side does happen to win.


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[jb]

Besides that Michael Moore's apartment here was searched and his neighbors were evacuated because he thought he was going to get one of those bombs, dumb ass worthless prick was just looking for a little press, oh ya, nothing was found.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don’t think anything more needs be said. Those two posts said it all!

BKB

[Penguin]

DeputyDog: I agree with you, it is disheartening to see but we have such blinders on that people will call for civility one minute and a few minutes later become the very firebrand they claim to be against. And when called on it they really don't know what you're talking about. :)

Fact is I think everyone should settle in and relax. You know the old saying 'if something can't go on forever then it won't'? Well we are in the middle of having quite a number of those 'things that cannot go on forever' that are, if not leaving the building, at least looking around to spot the exits.

There are a lot of people who have been directly hurt by all of those policies that I kept saying were off deemed off limits by some very powerful groups. Now that the status quo is threatened you see them taking the gloves off. Not least because they know that if these policies are reversed they are the the ones who pay the price. They are a day late and a dollar short.

The status quo is ending. Period. It failed.

We should be arguing about what will replace it but we aren't. Instead you see those clinging to power with the veins in their necks distended, their eyes bulging out, and shrieks of pain coming out of their mouths. It's going to get a worse before it gets better. I think it will get a lot worse. But the realignment I've spoken of is starting to take shape. In baby steps but it is beginning to move.

Examples:

The status quo on health care is EXTREMELY unpopular. Both parties have been playing hide the sausage for decades on this issue. Defending the status quo for a politician in DC is the equivalent of hanging a "Fire Me!" sign around your neck. You see a lot of young democrats just coming out and calling for universal health care. You see older Republicans casting about trying to find some way to do nothing but not get burned trying to defend what we have now.

Trade: It has been used as the weapon of first resort for decades to coax strategic countries into aligning on "our" side. We trade a bunch of good paying industrial jobs for foreign policy goals. Now those directly hurt (look to all of those Trump counties in PA, WV, OH, WI, MI, etc) are fighting back. You see a lot of Democrats and Republicans trying to use the old shibboleths and chants to get around the fact that they have heartily endorsed policies that have directly destroyed small cities across the midwest.

Immigration and how it is used to impoverish wide swaths of the electorate? Don't get me started.

The banking system in the US does things that would make a mafia family blanche in disgust.... My blood pressure won't handle a post on this. :)

You think these issues are going to get settled in a civil and dignified way? Brother I've got news for you, it has only started. You haven't seen ugly yet. I know it will get worse because I've watched it develop. Until the system is changed in a way that stops enriching an elite few at the expense of the vast majority it will continue to build.

Strap in.

Will

[johnboy]

How much responsibility do you think the media has in this time of heightened animosity between political viewpoints? Seems to me that they are fanning the flames with their hyperbolic rhetoric. I mean, CNN's Don Lemon (an idiot for sure) just said that all white men are terrorists. If that isn't meant to incite anger, I don't know what is.

[DeputyDog]

I think they play a big part in it. The onset of the 24 hour news cycle is partially to blame in my opinion. When you have to fill 24 hours of programming you become a lot less concerned with accuracy and more focused on making sure you have something new to discuss. This also created the need for all of the talking heads and the shows that portray opinion as factual news.

The creation of online and cable/satellite news feeds didn’t help either. They are so many choices, a person can pick the one that tells them what they want to hear.


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[johnboy]

I see the actions of the various 'news' channels as being a little more sinister than just talk. I have a feeling that what they are doing to foment discord is deliberate. They want people angry at each other.

[DeputyDog]

I see the actions of the various 'news' channels as being a little more sinister than just talk. I have a feeling that what they are doing to foment discord is deliberate. They want people angry at each other.

I agree with that. What I said was just the start of it.


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[Big Muddy]

10314

[johnboy]

:thumbsup

[BarryBobPosthole]

I would hope that we’re adult enough to be able to sift the pepper from the fly shit when it comes to media. I mean come on, at least own up to it. “The devil made me do it” is a bullshit cop out.

My belief is that much of the anger in voters is a symptom of the bigger problem of voter apathy. We average about a 30% turnout in our elections in Oklahoma. To win, politicians have to ‘motivate’ their bases to go to the polls and as voter participation has waned, they have to use more and more incendiary rhetoric to get them off their asses.

Media might have its issues, but they don’t exert mind control. C’mon man. “We have met the enemy and they is us, bro”

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I would hope that we’re adult enough to be able to sift the pepper from the fly shit when it comes to media. I mean come on, at least own up to it. “The devil made me do it” is a bullshit cop out.

My belief is that much of the anger in voters is a symptom of the bigger problem of voter apathy. We average about a 30% turnout in our elections in Oklahoma. To win, politicians have to ‘motivate’ their bases to go to the polls and as voter participation has waned, they have to use more and more incendiary rhetoric to get them off their asses.

Media might have its issues, but they don’t exert mind control. C’mon man. “We have met the enemy and they is us, bro”

BKB

According to this link, propaganda works. Isn’t that what the “news” has become?

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2018/08/propaganda-works-58-percent-of-republicans-believe-education-is-bad/


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[BarryBobPosthole]

Man there’s so much I disagree with in that article I don’t know where to start.

So I’ll just say yes, there is a lot of propagandists in the media. John pointed out one. But the notion that Trump got elected by ignoramuses is dead wrong. And the notion that the other side are ignoramuses is dead wrong too. And anybody with a nickels worth of sense knows the difference, and if they say they don’t then there ain’t much hope for them.

The truth is out there, and its in the media if you look for it. And sift the pepper from the fly shit.

BKb

[johnboy]

I tried to read that article but didn't get far. It is so obviously an "I hate Trump and everything about him" viewpoint that it is useless as far as actual information dissemination goes.

We now have media outlets that purport to provide 'news' coverage but are, in reality, mouthpieces for political parties. CNN and MSNBC are obviously left leaning and Fox is just as obviously right leaning but I think it goes farther than just support for particular political parties. We are in the midst of a battle between the forces of globalism and the forces of nationalism and I think the globalists are frightened to death by your latest president (an avowed nationalist) and the resurgence of nationalist governments around the world.

Interesting times!

[HideHunter]

Let me post one of my favorite political quotes of all time; gleaned from many from a highly gifted source:

“Our current state of red/blue politics is like the final throes of a bad marriage. It’s become not about achieving reconciliation, or even an end, but how much pain can be inflicted before one side walks away…”

Any guesses? ;)

[Big Muddy]

For your listening enjoyment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarvRldszWs&list=RDzarvRldszWs&start_radio=1&t=0

[HideHunter]

:D

[Thumper]

According to this link, propaganda works. Isn’t that what the “news” has become?

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2018/08/propaganda-works-58-percent-of-republicans-believe-education-is-bad/

To quote Johnboy .... Ditto! "I tried to read that article but didn't get far. It is so obviously an "I hate Trump and everything about him" viewpoint that it is useless as far as actual information dissemination goes."

[Penguin]

I said earlier in the thread that it I believed it was going to get worse before it got better. Believe me now?

Once you figure out who is actually running things in this country if becomes very easy to understand why the political parties and their chieftains behave the way they do. They are trying to stay in power without getting cut off from the spigot of money raining down on them from the donor class. BOTH parties. For decades now. When I got up this morning I knew exactly what the party line would be from the establishment mouthpieces. Tuned into NPR and got a heaping helping of the expected drivel from both sides. It used to be amusing. Now we're way past that.

The reason our politics is so nasty is that the people in charge want it that way. Crazy divisive social issues don't cost them a thing they are the only way to keep the foot soldiers engaged and fired up when you are giving them nothing at all of import. You want a political party that can wrest control from these two criminal enterprises and retain power for a couple generations? Here's your party platform:

Health Care: People don't want mandated, overpriced health insurance that covers practically nothing until you pay a quarter of your annual salary. Especially when US health care system is the most bloated, expensive, and inefficient one on the planet. They want reasonable, affordable health care like every other 1st world nation. The "Will Party" will give it to them.

Immigration: We in the "Will Party" want to maintain ~some~ immigration but we recognize that there are real costs associated with doing so. Hiring an immigrant should NEVER be cheaper than hiring a citizen. When an immigrant is hired there should be a surtax of 100% of their annual salary that the company pays in full to train a citizen to do the job in the future. Do this one thing and then watch a consensus on immigration form almost overnight.

Free Trade: Trade should benefit both sides, and by both sides the "Will Party" does not mean rich financiers and CEOs in this country and the destitute and desperate in other nations who take US jobs when they are outsourced and offshored. Trade is vital but should only include things that are not considered necessities. You grow your own food and build the goods vital to your way of life in this country. Then you trade for extras. A nation that cannot feed itself or build its own infrastructure is not a nation, it is a colony.

Defense: The people of the "Will Party" believe words have meanings. And the word defense means defense. It does not mean maintaining expensive military bases in places like Germany and South Korea and Italy (and on and on and on) to bolster THEIR economy on the backs of US tax payers. They want defense? Let them pay for it or build their own. And the word defense does not mean bombing wedding parties in Afghanistan or birthday parties in Iraq by some drone operator in Houston which kills 13 people to get one dyed in the wool bad guy. Words have meanings and an old phrase from the distant past is brought to mind when things like this happen: War crimes....We'll instead mind our own business for a change and get involved only when we are called on by nations in trouble or see things like genocide taking place.

1st Amendment: Freedom of speech does not mean some snot nosed monopolist in Silicon Valley reading my email or tracking my whereabouts without my permission. Break these modern day mafias into about 13,000 pieces and guarantee freedom of speech. If you don't like what someone else has to say and it doesn't break the law go somewhere else, or better yet grow a pair and engage in true political arguments. Most hate speech is ridiculous nonsense anyway and it shouldn't be that tough to win a true argument against them. If you can't logically refute them then you may want to reconsider your position.

Banks: Glass-Steagall. Enough said.

There that ought to about win about 70% of the popular vote and form a consensus that lasts for about 100 years. Now do you see why it isn't so popular among those who benefit from their position in the status quo now? But until real changes with real consequences like these are put into place we are just stuck with an obviously broken system that has little support. THIS is why you have so much dissension now. And why it is only going to get worse.

Will