What'cha think?

[Thumper]

Well, it looks like another mass shooting has made the news. California this time. I just read an article about the mother of one of the victims going on a rant demanding gun control. My sympathies go out to her as well as ALL the victims and families.

That said, wtf IS "gun control" anyway? I'm not sure I really know. Does that mean BANNING all guns? Or what it infers ... tight regulation? I'm not really sure. I've lived in California and they have some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country. The shooter the other night used a legally purchased gun ... BUT ... he used extended mags in that gun. He's 28 years old and extended mags were banned in California 18 years ago. I doubt he bought them when he was 10. Did that restriction work? Nope. Just like the old NRA cliche', "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." How many felons are arrested carrying a gun? There's a law against felons possessing guns. Does THAT restriction work? I honestly don't know what the answer is.

I remember back in the 90's my Russian friend (Yuri) came to the States for a visit. I took him to a large gun store in Tampa and his eyes were as big as saucers! He was like a kid in a candy store! I asked him about gun ownership in Russia and he said civilians were not allowed to own handguns and the only people with them are law enforcement, the military and criminals. (his exact words) There are allowances for "some" hunting rifles, but I'm not sure what those restrictions are. That conversation reminded me of the quote I made above (If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns) and Russia is a prime example. When I visited Russia, I ran across the Russian Mafia almost every day I was there. They practically own some of the cities there ... much like the gangs here in certain areas of Chicago ... but on a much grander scale. There were two instances where I almost became personally involved with the Mafia while there and was extremely lucky in one instance as I was stopped before I went too far. (they were beating a woman and I ALMOST got involved before being pulled away) It was during my "learning process" in Moscow, but that's a whole 'nuther story.

Now that I've started writing, I've realized I don't even know the real point of my post. I guess I'm simply looking for an answer, but I'm not so sure there is one. It reminds me of another NRA cliche', "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people." I suppose that has some truth to it, but we can't ban people! I'm thinking maybe there IS no real answer.

[DeputyDog]

An answer I commonly give to some of the more anti-gun people I talk to is this: “If your intention is to commit mass murder, which is probably the most serious crime on the books, are you going to be deterred the least little bit because you will be charged with another crime if you use a gun to do it?”

I don’t know the answer to how to stop things like this from happening. I haven’t had time to research it, but, are there more “mass” shootings than before, or are they just more widely publicized? If the numbers are up, then what has changed in our society to make us produce more mass killers? Until that problem is addressed, if it even can be, the only way to reduce gun violence is confiscation of every gun in America, which is impossible.




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[Thumper]

.... the only way to reduce gun violence is confiscation of every gun in America, which is impossible.

Yessir ... all that would do is open up a huge black market industry and thieves would get rich. Heck, heroin is illegal, but evidently, people have no problem getting it. Murder is illegal but people still get murdered (many with weapons other than guns). Heck, SPEEDING is illegal but how many actually abide by the speed limit?

It's obviously a social issue but I'm clueless as to how to prevent it. I assume it's nothing more than a harbinger of what the future holds. That sounds pretty grim ... but I see no practical way of putting an end to it.

[BarryBobPosthole]

My primary belief on this topic is that neither the NRA crowd nor the gun control advocates have any idea whether their stances impact the occurance of mass shootings. Neither. Fucking. One.
B: We can’t even get the two sides to agree to study the problem in any objective way. That is dumbfuckery beyond any level of comprehension.
3. Its entirely possible that this type of behavior is a natural phenomenon in an overcrowded species. Its a fact that in nature you can observe lots of negative behaviors and new illnesses in overcrowded conditIons. So we may be fucked. Maybe not. I don’t pretend to know. But its a possibility.

And yes that is all pretty negative for my usual liberal happy self. But this is depressing. Our response to it is even more depressing.

BkB

[Chicken Dinner]

Look every death of an innocent is one too many. But, the reality of gun violence is that the rate has dropped dramatically over the past 20-30 years. Yet, all the anti gun crowd wants to talk about are high profile “mass” shootings because its an effective emotional argument. Google the stats and you can see for yourself.


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[Thumper]

I got into a discussion on this matter with a fellow cruise passenger I met and he blamed it on video games. His contention is that kids are being numbed to the realities of death (killing actually). I can see the possibility, but I grew up playing cowboys and Indians with cap pistols in my holsters and can't tell you how many neighborhood kids I "killed" who were "Indians"! AND, many times, those "dirty Redskins" killed ME with imaginary arrows shot from the stick and string they carried, THEN they'd scalp me with their rubber knives! We also played cops and robbers with the same results. I seriously doubt ANY of my childhood friends grew up to be murderers. Maybe today's video games are too graphic. (?) It seems to me that would actually show the devastation caused by shootings and maybe be a deterrent. Now you can "see" the blood and guts on your game console, whereas when I was a kid, all we did was grab our chest, holler "ya' got me ya' dirty varmint" and fell to the ground playing dead. I could see his side of the argument, but as I asked him, do you really think (and yes, I'm getting racial and profiling a bit here) that inner city blacks in Chicago and Mexican gang-bangers sit at home on their Sony PlayStation 4 Pro and their $2000 gaming system shooting innocents? I'm not sure I buy that. Then again, it seems these MASS shootings are usually white dudes who grew up in middle class homes and neighborhoods. Maybe they DID play video games during their young, formative days. I can see both sides of that argument, but again, I've never felt the need to kill any REAL Indians! It's a complicated mess. I guess I'll never understand why people do these things and just have to accept it as being "part of today's society".

[DeputyDog]

Look into the research of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. He has written several books on this very topic. I've attended a couple of his classes pertaining to the psychology of killing and its effect on a person when I was still doing SWAT.

He cites statistics that show that during WWII, a very small percentage of combat infantrymen, actually actively participated in combat. Many simply hid, others would participate by firing their weapons but they did not aim at anything, while a very small percentage actually conducted aimed fire at the enemy. The Army looked into this and changed the way they did their firearms training, by switching from shooting at bullseye targets to human silhouette targets. This increased the percentage of soldiers who put aimed fire onto the enemy. The numbers still weren't high enough to suit the Army, so they switched to 3-D targets and this worked even better.

They determined that the more they "conditioned" the soldiers to shoot at something that looked like a real human being, the easier it was for them to actually do it in combat. Grossman says that the violence that kids are exposed to in the media, whether it is movies, TV, or video games, is actually conditioning them to be more violent.

As far as the gang members that Thump mentioned, they don't need the video games, they see the real thing on a regular basis from a very young age.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That sounds interesting, DD. I will check his book out, thanks!

Most of the people who blame it on video games are old curmdgeons like Thumper.
The disturbing part though is this question: Is the only thing keeping us from being a mass murderer conditionng ourselves to carnage? Sociopaths have no empathy for others. Is that a result of conditioning too?
BKB

[Thumper]

FWIW, I don't buy into the video game thing, but who knows? I suppose the study D-Dog wrote about goes along with that theory. I just plain don't know what to think anymore.