It Done. The Road Goes on Forever But the Party Never Ends!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Besides the title to a great Robert Earl Keene song, its also what is going on in our Congress.

I think this impeachment process is necessary. That doesn’t mean I think the outcome is predetermined. I’m interested to see the case the House thinks they can come up with and see all the evidence laid out.

Just based on what we know so far, the President and his minions definitely are idiots if they think there is nothing wrong with what he has done with respect to Ukraine. But I knew he was an idiot already, and being a dumbass is no reason for impeachment. Just look at Bush II. Not even Republicans stand by him any more, especially the Trumpers. So I want to see the whole case.

And just an observation, but any time a vote goes strictly along party lines means that BOTH sides voted to help themselves and not the American people. Si shame on them both for being nutless.

And frankly, I don’t know why we don’t just impeach him for being a serial liar. Especially when he lies to the entire nation. But I guess that isn’t the way it works. But I guess folks only hate liars and thieves when it suits them to. At least that is what it looks like.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

If being a serial liar was grounds for impeachment Bill Clinton should have been booted right off the bat.

[DeputyDog]

According to the US Constitution Article II, Section 4: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

I'm not sure being considered a liar or even being one is grounds for impeachment. Being unpopular certainly isn't one. Bill Clinton committed perjury, which in most states is a Felony or "high crime" and he didn't get convicted so that he could be removed from office.

If Congress can prove by facts and not rumor or insinuation that Trump did any of the things that are grounds for impeachment and can get a conviction, then he should absolutely be removed from office.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Last I checkedhe was inpeached. For lying to congress about a blow job. Maybe he should have just grabbed her by the pussy. That is acceptable in some conservative circles.

BKB

[Penguin]

Ummmmm.

Going to have to disagree here Barry. If he had come out and said "You know I want you folks to help me get some dirt on Bernie Sanders!" Or Warren or Gabbard or anyone else who constitutes a threat to him politically but WITHOUT being enmeshed in a circumstance like this. This wasn't an out of the blue political hit. I mean come on... How power drunk and senile do you have to be to get on camera at a Council on Foreign Relations event and brag about getting a prosecutor fired when he was investigating a textbook case of grift involving his son?

But in Biden's case it was entirely warranted.

And it was a throwaway line on the conversation anyway. What he really wanted, and asked for the favor on, was to run down the email server that evaded the FBI/NSA/CIA inspections to instead be sent over there for forensic investigation. Cough ~bullshit~ cough.

One thing both sides were wrong about though is WHY Biden asked such a thing. And why Burisma hired his son in the first place. It is not a case of one side being righteous and the other being corrupt. Fact is Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. Burisma and the Ukrainian government were in a squabble over who was going to get all of the money that became available when the IMF (in exchange for loans) mandated that natural gas was not going to be sold by the government at cost any longer. Instead it would be priced as if it were on the Euro market even though that created an obscene profit margin. Burisma managed to get a huge slice of this graft and the president of Ukraine and the government wanted some of the skim. Burisma hired young Biden to get the US government to help shield them from the other set of thieves who were trying to cut into their ill gotten gains.

It is a filthy business. And Trump was right when he said it sounds terrible. But it isn't something that goes over well in a 5 second sound bite.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Deputy, I was speaking for myself on the lying part. I think lying overtly should be impeachable. But i guess it isn’t. I was referring to his character.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Penguin, even if Biden had murdered somebody, short of asking for extradition there should never be a like that to a political opponent.

And where was the congressional inquiry into Biden’sactions? The R’s had majorities in all three houses for years and never said boo. The whataboutism towards Biden is no excuse for extortion and a coverup of it.

I predict barr will launch an investigation of Biden any day now. And I hope he does it.
BKB

[Penguin]

Posty:

I don't think Biden admitted to it until 2018.

One thing I will say: There are a lot of individuals going to jail soon. And I, for one, have been waiting for 3 years for the shoes to drop. You cannot have a republic if you allow what happened the last election to go unpunished.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

And on that we agree!

BKB

[Thumper]

Ha, if we impeached liars, there wouldn’t be a President in the history of this country who hasn’t been impeached! ;)

[quercus alba]

Congress will impeach him, the senate won’t convict him and he’ll win a second term. What he did wasn’t illegal, unethical maybe, stupid yes but not illegal at least according the experts. They ought to impeach the whole damn lot for general principles and start from scratch

[BarryBobPosthole]

I think you’re probably right in how it will go, QA.

I don’t think anyone knows how Chief Justice John Roberts will run the trial. In all the huffing and puffing about what Senate Republicans will do, folks seem to have forgotten that McConnel won’t get to decide when to vote or how. The Senate trial’s judge is the Chief justice of SCOTUS. That takes the process more out of the political arena and more in the justice one. That’s where you’re question about whether its an impeachable offense might get decided. there will be lots of motions to the court and lots of little decisions.
In my best Chris Berman voice “It could go either way!’

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Well, we did impeach Bill Clinton for lying. So, there is that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penguin]

“It could go either way!"

No, it can only go one way for the US. Badly.

There is a difference from when Clinton was impeached and not convicted and what we have here. There was a specific subset of people who had been intentionally sacrificed at the alter of free trade, mass immigration, offshoring, etc. They ~finally~ got someone who claimed to agree with their cause and, not coincidentally, promised to burn the joint down around the ears of those who had been hurting them for so long. Since the election they have been ridiculed, insulted, and now they are being disenfranchised in the name of righteous government by some of the most corrupt individuals on the planet.

No this is headed only one way and it ain't a good way. We need some adults in the room to bus all of these senile, graft addled, money hungry sociopaths off to the old politicians home where they belong.

Will

PS: The bus would be bi-partisan.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don’t believe that Trump has lied to congress, which is what Bill Clinton was impeached for. That is against the law. And is an impeachable offense. Congress said so. The Republican congress along with many democrats. For one, hehasn’t testified to Congress about anything yet.

I think it’s a pretty good bet that Trump will be deposed as part of this deal. Can you imagine a three or four hour deposition happening without him lying at least four or five times? I’m not saying its a trap, I’m just saying it doesn’t necessarily play to Trumps strengths.

BKB

[quercus alba]

It’s a witch-hunt pure and simple, just like the republicans with Clinton and Obama. If they’d work as hard for us as they do against each other we’d be in a whole lot better place. That’s the reason I despise politics at every level. Ain’t a single one of them worth the powder and lead it’d take to blow their brains out.

[johnboy]

As an impartial observer of all things political, this looks to me like a straight out hit job to punish Trump for having the utter gall to beat Hillary in the past election and an attempt to screw him over for 2020 because he won't be beaten any other way. When it comes to corruption, the level of hypocrisy shown here is staggering.

[Hombre]

Only here to say that the Highway men sing that song way better than Robert Earl Keene

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’ll have to check that cover out.

BkB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Its good. But I still like REK’s backup band better. Those guys can kick it.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I think we all just see what we want to see and our truths are not mutually exclusive. Basically, just because there may be a vast left wing to conspiracy to get Trump doesn’t mean he isn’t a crooked SOB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hombre]

**I think we all just see what we want to see and our truths are not mutually exclusive. **

Did you pick that up in Executive Meeting Training. I was really waiting for the... "We need a paradigm shift...That isn't moving the needle"

[DeputyDog]

Well, we did impeach Bill Clinton for lying. So, there is that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But he lied under oath so that makes it perjury.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DeputyDog]

Last I checkedhe was inpeached. For lying to congress about a blow job. Maybe he should have just grabbed her by the pussy. That is acceptable in some conservative circles.

BKB

I agree that Trump is not a decent human being. That alone doesn’t disqualify him from being President.

Are you saying the the subject or the context of the lie matters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

Clinton freely admitted he lied to congress and apologized to the country for it. I’m pretty positive that didn’t cut any ice with the folks who impeached him for it. And you are correct, he did commit perjury technically so in the eyes of the law it doesn’t matter what lie he told or whom it caused hurt to. He had a tawdry affair with an intern and lied to the Congress and his wife about it.I don’t recall any cover up scheme that involved anyone else.

My point of bringing it up that way is there are a couple of things that are really distasteful (IMO of course) about the Republican defense of Trump. the main one being that Trump is a habitual liar. He has also been proven to have paid off a porn star and a former playboy bunny to shush affairs that he had, one while his wife was pregnant. Trump get a totally free pass for a mountain of lies and a life of immoral activities. He defrauded many thousands of people with Trump University, yet he gets a total pass, as if it didn’t happen. His defense is that the judge was a Mexican, that has to be the reason since he was trying to build a wall to Mexico. Does that sound plausible to you? I know you’re an LE and they are as a rule cynical of alibis. Why not this one?

In one case, Republicans are high and mighty. In the other case, that behavior is totally ignored. Nobody has ever had an explanation for that, that I can say holds water. The most common one is that he’s not a politician, he’s a businessman. I’ve known a lot of businessmen, and the one Trump reminds me the most of is Bernie Ebbers. Ebbers has many many things in common with Trump. Narcissicism, infidelity, fraud, and a total lack of empathy to name a few very obvious ones.

So that’s why I compared the two liars: in order to pointout that if you believe it was right to impeach Clinton for lying to Congress and his wife about getting blow jobs in the Oval Office, then you have zero right, again in my opinion, to criticize the impeachment of this lying asshole.

Again, not saying you are wrong buddy, just stating my own two cents.

BKb

[Thumper]

The tit for tat can go on for eternity. Nobody is ever gonna like EVERYBODY. The point is, if you're gonna vote, you have to vote for someone on the ballot (unless you pen in Mickey Mouse, etc) and who on the ballot was the viable alternative to Trump? Of course, now we're back to opinions and IMHO, the answer is nobody. One thing I find hard to believe is all that he has been able to accomplish with ZERO backing from Congress. If those worthless assholes spent half as much effort doing something positive for this country other than spending every waking hour fighting Trump, the world MIGHT be a better place. I'm so sick of this impeach Trump b/s I could barf. How 'bout SOMEBODY get to work and actually do the job they were elected to do? Now THAT'S a novel idea.

I've voted for the lesser of two evils in every election after Reagan. I'd love for that to change, but for the last election, that was Trump IMHO .... and it appears it'll still be Trump in 2020 unless something drastically changes, which appears VERY doubtful at this point. No matter who is in office, the "losers" will bitch and moan the loudest. It'll never change, so can't we just move on and make the best of what we have to work with? ANYTHING is better than NOTHING. You know, like improving the country. Congress needs to start earning their pay at some point in time. What does impeachment accomplish anyway? Absolutely nothing that is even close to being worth the hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars and millions of man-hours wasted that could have gone toward more worthwhile causes. He would never be convicted and removed from office, so what's the frigging point?

Oh yeah, that's just MY 2-cents, for whatever that's worth.

[Penguin]

Context, my friend, context.

Of course Clinton lied.... about something so embarrassing and off-color that a lot of people did not really want to see him removed from office over it. Context matters. If he had lied to cover up something really outrageous that he did in respect to how he handled his position as president? Then maybe it would have easily seen him removed. Context matter whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Two things to remember:

1) There are a lot of intelligence agency types who ran a sting operation and a make believe smear campaign on a presidential candidate. And a lot of higher ups who OK'd it. They are not in jail yet. Many of them have gigs with our media conglomerates. They ought to be wearing orange jump suits and prison sandals. Their behavior makes Trumps imbecility look tame by comparison. I don't see many people shedding tears over them obtaining help from foreigners in the task to prevent a Trump victory.

2) Trump had every right to seek help on running down what Biden was up to. It takes a special kind of senility or pompous arrogance to get on camera and admit you got the prosecutor fired who was investigating the company your son sat on the board of. That context means everything. He didn't ask for help investigating Bernie or Warren or anyone else who hadn't bragged about using his office to protect his son.

Both sides here are way out of line. What happened to Clinton was a failed political hit job and outrageous. And this one is 10 times worse because I am getting a sneaking suspicion that it is being done to keep Barr from getting the people mentioned in #1 behind bars.

It's a disgrace and it may well be the first major crack in this nations foundations. I said years ago that this nation was becoming ungovernable. This is what I was talking about.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Willy I guess we’ll have to wait for the proof of those conspiracies. So far we have seen none. If those stories are true, then I would imagine there will be a trail that will be found. I suspect Barr will appoint a special prosecutor and my money is on Trey Gowdy.

And Thumper, you are right, the choices we had in the last election were not very palatable. The choice we made was dead wrong.

BKB

[Thumper]

And Thumper, you are right, the choices we had in the last election were not very palatable. The choice we made was dead wrong. BKB


In YOUR opinion. :poke

[quercus alba]

If Hillary had won then the republicans would have fought her like the dems are doing with Trump essentially neutering anything she tried to do.

We need to build Trumps wall, only around DC then flood it.

[BarryBobPosthole]

If Hillary had won, its a sure bet Dems wouldn’t have won the House back. Nor would we have had 40% of congressional republicans either retiring or votedout since Trump took over, most of those in resignations. I guess that’s where the Swamp was?

So we would likely have yet another Benghazi investigation, three more email investigation, and another Whitewater investigation as the cherry on top. And the ‘server’ would be buried with her political rivals in the basement of the pizza place in DC where they peddled little kids, or so the rumors would go.

Gridlock. Thus the tongue in cheek title....’the Party never ends’

BKB

[DeputyDog]

Clinton freely admitted he lied to congress and apologized to the country for it. I’m pretty positive that didn’t cut any ice with the folks who impeached him for it. And you are correct, he did commit perjury technically so in the eyes of the law it doesn’t matter what lie he told or whom it caused hurt to. He had a tawdry affair with an intern and lied to the Congress and his wife about it.I don’t recall any cover up scheme that involved anyone else.

My point of bringing it up that way is there are a couple of things that are really distasteful (IMO of course) about the Republican defense of Trump. the main one being that Trump is a habitual liar. He has also been proven to have paid off a porn star and a former playboy bunny to shush affairs that he had, one while his wife was pregnant. Trump get a totally free pass for a mountain of lies and a life of immoral activities. He defrauded many thousands of people with Trump University, yet he gets a total pass, as if it didn’t happen. His defense is that the judge was a Mexican, that has to be the reason since he was trying to build a wall to Mexico. Does that sound plausible to you? I know you’re an LE and they are as a rule cynical of alibis. Why not this one?

In one case, Republicans are high and mighty. In the other case, that behavior is totally ignored. Nobody has ever had an explanation for that, that I can say holds water. The most common one is that he’s not a politician, he’s a businessman. I’ve known a lot of businessmen, and the one Trump reminds me the most of is Bernie Ebbers. Ebbers has many many things in common with Trump. Narcissicism, infidelity, fraud, and a total lack of empathy to name a few very obvious ones.

So that’s why I compared the two liars: in order to pointout that if you believe it was right to impeach Clinton for lying to Congress and his wife about getting blow jobs in the Oval Office, then you have zero right, again in my opinion, to criticize the impeachment of this lying asshole.

Again, not saying you are wrong buddy, just stating my own two cents.

BKb

I have not criticized the impeachment. My only issue is that they need to come up with something that meets the criteria and then be able to prove it. It’s one thing to be impeached but another to actually be convicted and removed from office.

People on both sides throw out the term impeachment for a lot of bullshit reasons. I’ve any number of Republicans call for the impeachment of Omar, Ocasio Cortez, etc.... just because of an unpopular statement, etc... Like I said before, Trump isn’t a decent person, but that’s not an impeachable offense. If they can prove he committed an impeachable offense while in office, then by all means impeach him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

On that we agree!

But just a small add. I think Presidents and Congresscritters commit acts that could get them impeached but its not always the right or smart thing to remove them.
An example is Bush II and Iraq. Congress and the American people were flat out lied to by the Bush admin about WMD. E Everyone admits there was no WMD now. So the whole thing was a made up reason to go to war. One study said that there was up to 2.4 million civilian casualties. Certainly in the hindreds of thousands.
And no repercussion whatsoever.
That ain’t justice. But I’m not sure we could have survived an impeachment so shortly after 9/11.

BKB

[johnboy]

Maybe the Bush admin was lied to about WMD by the CIA. Seems to me that your CIA is balls deep in the the plot to overthrow your current Pres. Curious, no?

[quercus alba]

CIA is lying by their very name, there is no intelligence involved

[BarryBobPosthole]

Lots of folks seem convinced our CIA is corrupt. Even more think the FBI is corrupt. People also blame fires in California on politics, they blame the hurricanes on politics.
I guess, pick your conspiracy theory and be happy.

BKB

[Thumper]

And I think your enter key is corrupted. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don’t what’s wrong with this double pumping sumbitch. Has to do with a router setting onmy wifi but I can’t figure it out. It never did it on cox internet.

BKB

[airbud7]

I don’t what’s wrong with this double pumping sumbitch. Has to do with a router setting onmy wifi but I can’t figure it out. It never did it on cox internet.

BKB

it's an internet provider conspiracy against you Barry!...you live in Oklahoma the only state where all counties voted Republicans!

Fact: Oklahoma has voted Republican in fifteen of the last sixteen elections....Now take your TDS pill Bro.

[Thumper]

CIA is lying by their very name, there is no intelligence involved

HEY!! :angry1 I was part of the "I" between the C and the A! ;) (I know, I'm leaving myself wide open for abuse here)

Having worked with, for and beside the CIA for 4 years, that's what they do. Yesterday, I started to write about things that I was personally involved with, without crossing certain lines, but it turned into a book ... NOT a Thump post, I'm talking a frigging novel! I finally deleted it after realizing there was no end in sight. I tried again last night ... same results and I again deleted it. The thought crossed my mind to try again this morning, but I simply don't know how. We (the US) have these perceived morals ... we are the high and mighty who "follow the rules". The problem is, NO OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH follows the rules. Face it, you will NEVER win a ball game if you're playing by the rules and the opposing team ignores all of them. It just ain't gonna happen. The answer is the CIA. There are no rules ... well there are ... supposedly ... but the CIA does not follow them. It's a bit of a Catch-22 situation. If the CIA has any rules and follows them, they cannot perform the job they need to do. PERIOD! Where the lines become blurred is when the corruption creeps in, especially when it involves our own Presidential elections! (can you say Watergate boys and girls?) They're not supposed to spy on US citizens. Ha! That's the joke of the century! When they are bending the rules in OUR country and are in bed with the POTUS, that's when things can get out of hand. It's when they get CAUGHT that things get really, really sticky. We're worried about the Russians interfering with our elections, we also need to worry about the Americans!

But enough of that, it's pretty much common sense. Back to my PERSONAL experiences. Much of what we did, Congress was not even aware of. SOME things that were done, even the POTUS wasn't aware of. Many times, regarding the POTUS, it was one of those "Do what you need to do, but I don't want to know about it" (and nobody else needs to know about it either) type situations. Face it, that's what the CIA does. If I sat here for a while, I could probably list 50 of those exact situations off the top of my head that I was personally involved with (and DURING those ops, if broken down to individual instances, it would easily reach the thousands). That's a tiny 4-year period for me. Imagine the history of the CIA ... it would boggle the mind.

The CIA CANNOT play by any rule book. As for budget? Who knows? It used to be called the "Black Budget". I have no clue if it still is or if it's called something else now, but the "budget" was whatever was needed. Pretty much a bank account that was impossible to be overdrawn AND there was no paperwork needed for those withdrawals. (paper trails are a no-no) The House Oversight Committee? Ha! That's a joke ... THEY don't even have a clue. They'll get thrown a few tid-bits from time to time, but with no paperwork to back it up. IF any scraps of info are thrown their way, they're threatened with disappearing from the face of the earth if anything is mentioned outside of the room. Now mind you, the Black Budget is a bottomless money pit, so corruption is always a threat. Also there is no accountability for failed missions or just plain stupid ideas that simply cost a LOT of money, but gain nothing in return. I guess you just have to take the good with the bad. The CIA is a necessary evil IMHO. Once being a part of it, I see and understand the need. I also see and understand the need for total secrecy, ESPECIALLY since "secrets" seem to flow out of Washington like water through a sieve these days.

In the end, I understand how it needs to work, plus I agree that it's needed in this day and age. That said, I have no clue how to make them accountable other than making the best attempt possible to guarantee a "good" Director. But who's gonna know if he's a shithead or not? The fox is assigned to guard the hen house ... you just need to find a tame and well-fed fox!

[quercus alba]

The fact it took you that long to catch it kinda makes my point :thumbsup

[Thumper]

Oh, I caught it immediately. I just included my response within the posts I kept deleting. :(

[quercus alba]

well, obviously you're the exception to the rule Jimbo. :poke

[LJ3]

I'm good with that, QA. I'm far enough from that shithole. Fishing may even pick up.