Gun Find Challenge

[Big Skyz]

So here's the challenge, I have searched high and low and cannot find a Ruger 77 Hawkeye Predator in .204 anywhere. (Catalog #17123) If anyone knows of one for sale some where please let me know. Not interested in any other models or other .204's. There are some pretty cagey fellar's on this site that seem to be able to find about anything. However I'm thinking this rifle is pert near like trying to find the Holy Grail...and don't tell me "you've already got one." ;)

[Niner]

Well, you may have checked them already, but here goes.
I checked Davidson's Gallery of Guns Gun Genie. They have the gun listed...which means they do carry it, but they also show none in stock. You could go on there and do a "stock watch" and (I think) it will notify you when one becomes available.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=17123&mfg=Ruger&mdl=M77+Hawkeye&cat=2&type=Rifle&cal=204+Ruger&fin=&sit=&zipcode=30265


When I was looking for a Winchester M70 Extreme Weather in 30-06 last year there were none to be found. I finally found one in a shop in Montana and bought it. When I got home from my FFL with it I decided to start working on making some loads for it. Long story short, the rifle would not chamber rounds that fit perfectly in my old M70. When I tried putting a factory round in it and the bolt STILL would not close I knew something was wrong. I called Winchester and they advised I should send it to them and they'd look at it and if the chamber was screwed up like I was saying, they would replace the gun. Well.......they DID replace it, but it took about three months before they got around to making some new ones on the production line.

I said all that to say this. It could be that they aren't making that particular model right now, but if you get on the waiting list now you'll be at the head of the queue when they start making them again.

[Big Skyz]

I finally found one in PA, and yes I did buy it. I didn't find it on my own though. After calling all the big chain sporting goods stores except Bass Pro (because they don't exist in MT), and checking with gunbroker, gunsamerica, and several other online gun dealers I came up with nothing. I tried everything I could think of on my own, and always ran into what Niner stated (Some places carry it, but none had it in stock.) Finally a guy from PA sent me a PM at another site and said he knew of one in a gun shop in PA. I called the shop and they had exactly one. I bought it on the spot, and had my FFL dealer fax them their FFL# right away. I am extremely excited about this rifle and can't wait for it to get here. In over a year of looking this is the first one in a .204 I have been able to locate. I don't know about the production thing Niner, but I do know Ruger has been advertizing these rifles for over 2 years, and they are like hen's teeth to find in any caliber. Now I need to start saving my pennies for the same model in a 6.4 Creedmoor. :)

I can't wait for this thing to come to Daddy. :D :D :D
http://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/ruger_predator.jpg

[Buckrub]

Able Ammo in Texas seems to carry some stuff that others don't. I just stumbled on a Savage 93BSEV in .22 Mag there, and everyone else laughed at me for even asking.

Bud's Gun Shop also has stuff at times that others don't.

P.S.
That's a pretty gun..........for a Remington! :)AR (I couldn't resist)

[Thumper]

That's a pretty gun..........for a Remington!

Ummmm, don't look now ... but I think that's a Ruger. ;)

(or did I miss the joke?)

[Buckrub]

Just glad to see Big Sky finally buying a real gun........................

Even if it's one of the "Devil's Three" with the dadblasted 3-stage safety that American Lawyers have perpetrated onto an otherwise safe and upstanding American citizenry...but which Savage has stubbornly resisted, may their tribe prosper!

[Big Skyz]

Funny you should say that about Savages Buckrub, especially considering that 2nd rate, completely lawyer influenced Accutrigger of theirs. While it's better than their standard trigger it's still not that great of a trigger. In fact, I don't like it at all, but some folks do. Then again some folks think Tina Turner is hot, I ain't one of them.

[jb]

Nice find Sky, is that going to do a better job than you 22-250 or 223?
Good looking combo, have fun.
I too went looking for a hard to find gun. I wanted a 357/38 six shooter, Colts were a little pricey, but found an NIB older Ruger Bisley out in WA. Called the guy and made a deal, should be here this Monday.
Don't ja just love the internet?
609

[Buckrub]

You got that Colt SAA!!! I TOLE YA to give it to me. Now you can, without worry, cause you have a Ruger.

Right?

I'm negotiating now on a Wby Vanguard .257 Mag with custom lam. thumbhole stock and Simmons Buckmaster 4-14X50 scope......

[HideHunter]

Congrats Sky.. Bucky, I like the three position saftey. In fact - I thnk the 93 you're looking at is the same action as my Mach II. With one exception, I like it. It is Ded Nutz accurate - *but* - (and back to the safety) the bolt does not lock down when the safety is on. I hunt with mine (or used to) and I am constantly dragging the bolt open. It's a deal-breaker for me. It's why I now own a CZ in that caliber. I haven't decided if it's going down the road or will become my designated starling gun. Not too many obstructions to catch the bolt on out the patio door. ;)

[Buckrub]

Well, then you're just deranged.

(I crack myself up).

I also dare you to flip that safety off in the quiet woods without going CLICK

P.S.
If the bolt DID lock down when the safety is OFF, then it would have to somehow, some magic way, disengage after pulling the trigger (but remain locked/closed prior to trigger pull). So how many batteries does it take to run such a contraption?

[jb]

Bucky, if I'm not mistaken that 257 Mag was at one time BigSky's dream caliber, I remember him talking about it on our first hunt together, now all he wants are those tiny teeny buulletts.
My rifle buying days are over, I have more deer rifles than I can use and even if I attempt elk one more time I figure my 308 or 270 will work just fine.
As for the Colt, since I got it back as brand new I hated the thought of shooting it, it's going to get a set of real ivory one piece grips this summer and then just sit there so I can lust over it.
I bought the Ruger to shoot, lot cheaper shooting 38's than 45's, about half the cost for ammo.
Post a pic. of that new rifle when you get your hands on it.

[Buckrub]

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/Buck7088/257a_zps6b1c7472.jpg

It shore is purty. I can't have enough rifles. I might need to shoot a lot of stuff someday. Plus, my safe isn't full. Got a lot of stuff that will work fine..........but ya never know when something might work better!

We agreed on a price.....without the Nikon scope....but I told him I ain't got the funds now, might have them in a month. He sorta said OK, but he'll sell it to any guaranteed money that shows up.......even though no one else is asking about it. So, maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't.

P.S.
If you give me the Colt, I PROMISE I'll shoot it! Dang, I covet one of those. I shoot my .357 Vaqeuro all the time. It's nniiicceeee....but it ain't a Colt SAA.

[Niner]

Well, then you're just deranged.

(I crack myself up).

I also dare you to flip that safety off in the quiet woods without going CLICK



What kindof rifle you talkin' 'bout Bucky?
If it's what I think, I might just have to take yo up on that bet.

[Buckrub]

Every (most, I dunno) Ruger, Winchester, and Remington now come with a "3 position safety". I have a couple of 'em, including the 'new' Model 70 .30-06. Every one of them USED TO have the two position thumb "tang" safety, and finding an old one with that safety is a joy.

It is very difficult to 'flip' the safety from one position to the other without making an audible noise. In the field, in a stand, in a hurry, I always make a loud noise with it. Amazingly loud in very quiet woods. I've had others try it and they can't do it quietly either. The bolt not locking on SAFE OFF is another of their lawyer b/s stuffs. This is the very reason I bought a Tikka .270..........course, after I got it, I fell in love with every part of it, and named it Sweetness.

These safeties were made because of American Lawyers tired of having to do their job and defend gun companies from lawsuits arising from guns being dropped and going off with the safety off. Dunno if anyone ever lost one of those or not, but that's why they got them to change. Rifles in other countries ignored this, as does Savage and others.

As to HH's statements, I don't know of a gun that locks the bolt down when the safety is OFF (RTF position). But maybe I'm missing what he's saying. Happening to me a lot lately.

The above gun, should I get it, will be named Lucy.

[Niner]

Ok..--so you unless I am reading you wrong...you have a problem with bolt guns not locking the bolt in the Fire position??? Surely either I am misunderstanding, or you are joking. Why would you want the bolt locked in the Fire position instead of the Safe position??? Winny's been making thar safety pretty much the same since the 1930's.

As far as the noise goes, I have three Winny M70 rifles, and don't have a problem with them. I have seen some new ones when I was shopping that had a pretty stiff safety. If I get really motivated this week, I might make a video of me working the safeties on my rifles and post it on youtube or somesuch.

[Buckrub]

You talking to me?

No, it wasn't me that said that. HideHunter did. He said he wanted the bolt to lock down in the FIRE position, and the 3-position American safeties I mentioned didn't do that. And I don't know about vintage Winchesters but Rugers and Remingtons used to be in-line, two position (on/off) 'tang' safeties, operated by your thumb. Something tells me that even though the vintage Winchesters had a similar looking side safety, they were still two position and not three. I could be wrong on that one.

As far as the bolt locking down, I have developed a subconscious habit in the deer stand of, every time I pick up the rifle, my right thumb instantly ensures that the bolt is fully closed. Cause nope, it won't fire if the bolt is even slightly up. And when I slide it into the wheely Kolpin gun boot, I make sure the safety is on (FULL on for the 3 position ones) so that the bolt won't catch and open during the process of sliding it down into the boot.

Regardless of all that, my 1993 Winchester Model 70 .30-06 had an 11 pound trigger from the factory, and that 3 position safety. I fixed the trigger, but can't the safety. It is as stiff as Posthole's Opinions, and I can NOT move it without making a quite audible noise. Neither can anyone else that's tried it.

[Buckrub]

Turns out I'm quite wrong..........but only for the Winchesters. Here's a blurb on 'em:

Pre '64 Model 70 Action (Controlled Round Feed, CRF)

The original Model 70 quickly established an excellent reputation with American sportsmen. It was a high-quality action of considerable strength, with 2 forward locking lugs and a Mauser-type non-rotating claw extractor. The key benefit of the Mauser-type extractor compared to later versions is that it captures the rim of a cartridge as it is fed upwards from the magazine and controls its journey forward into the rifle's chamber. This feed is called "controlled round feeding" and is favored by a number of shooters who prefer rifles to feed reliably, especially those who pursue dangerous game. The ejector was of the blade type similar to that of the Mauser 98, but considered superior as it did not require a Mauser-type slot through the left locking lug; instead there was a slot in the bolt face below the locking lug, leaving both forward lugs solid and hence stronger. The main benefit of the blade type ejector is it is simpler and perhaps more reliable (being considered less susceptible to ingress of foreign matter) when compared to the later post-'64 plunger ejector in the bolt face controlled by a coil spring.

Other significant features of this action include a three position wing type safety (retained throughout Model 70 production), a cone breeching system that helps prevent bullet nose damage while loading a cartridge from the magazine, machined steel trigger guard and floor plate, one piece bolt construction, and a trigger adjustable for pull weight and over-travel. This model has been proposed by the Alaskan senate as the official state firearm for its widespread usage during the taming of the great land.

_______________________
Mine is a Classic 1995 Featherweight All Terrain (FAT, which I find appropriate) in stainless. I put a Boyd's stock on it. But I do hate that safety.

I have held several older Ruger M77's and they did not have the 3 position safety that they do now. I have mistakenly assumed (actually was told by someone I thought was smart, and knew) that the change was due to lawyers decisions on all 3 American manufacturers.

[HideHunter]

Well, then you're just deranged.

(I crack myself up).

I also dare you to flip that safety off in the quiet woods without going CLICK

P.S.
If the bolt DID lock down when the safety is OFF, then it would have to somehow, some magic way, disengage after pulling the trigger (but remain locked/closed prior to trigger pull). So how many batteries does it take to run such a contraption?

lol.. Well - #1. I'm sure you're not the first to call me that (and I *know* I'm not the first on this site to be called that ;) ) and

#2. You didn't read my post where I said:


the bolt does not lock down when the safety is *on*. I hunt with mine (or used to) and I am constantly dragging the bolt open. It's a deal-breaker for me. It's why I now own a CZ in that caliber. I haven't decided if it's going down the road or will become my designated starling gun. Not too many obstructions to catch the bolt on out the patio door. ;) Now I've figured out why you guys are always fighting - nobody reads the posts. :D

I just went into the quiet den and tried the safety on my 77/22 and the Savage right beside it. If I "control" the safety as I slide it forward (which I do when anything is close) no difference. and on the Ruger the bolt is locked down when the safety is "on". On the Savage it is not - which, of course was my point originally. But don't feel bad. A Cooper was to be my USR (Ultimate Squirrel Rifle) until I discovered it has the same serious design flaw. That's why I own an Anchutz.

[Big Skyz]

I will side with Buckrub on the Winchester safety being noisy. I can't seem to work it without more noise than I care for. Loud enough to send a bear or a coyote running for the hills. However this Ruger saftey is quiet. If I release it by pinching it between my fingers I don't have any trouble keeping it quiet. As for the bolt locking down. Don't care, not a concern for me. Never has been, never will be.

JB, will my new .204 work better than one of my 223's or 22-250? Yes and no. It will shoot flatter than the .223, hence taking out a lot of guess work on shots beyond 300 yards. It will shoot pretty close trajectory-wise as my 22-250. Will it have the killing power of the 22-250? Nope, the 22-250 flat out kills'em dead to pieces. There lies the problem the 22-250 tends to blow the crap out of them. I've destroyed well over $500.00 worth of coyote hides in the last 3 months because of severe bullet damage. The .204 will be much more fur-friendly, even moreso than the .223. However I am sure that I will lose a coyote or two because the little .204 bullet just didn't bring them down "right now". The number of losses should be minor compared to the number of coyotes absolutely destroyed by my 22-250 though.

Made it out last Saturday and put this pretty little female on the ground with my 22-250. She's one of the few that the bullet didn't do severe damage and she is on her way to the fur buyer.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh113/Huntzz/TroyCoyote2-9-13A_zpse4da76f7.jpg

[Buckrub]

Touching nasty dead coyotes......

EEWWWWWWWW~!

[Buckrub]

And Harold! How dare you accuse me of not reading your posts! I really like that bullet!!! And the target was WHERE?

[HideHunter]

As for the bolt locking down. Don't care, not a concern for me. Never has been, never will be.

Made it out last Saturday and put this pretty little female on the ground with my 22-250. She's one of the few that the bullet didn't do severe damage and she is on her way to the fur buyer.


I'm betting you don't own a rifle that "doesn't" - so no - no concern. . . ;)

Sold 57 coon and a fox Friday.. furbearer season is over but I can still hunt coyotes. Tough out here and I'm not very good at it - but we got no ice and it's a long time to turkey season. ;)




And Harold! How dare you accuse me of not reading your posts! I really like that bullet!!! And the target was WHERE?


uhhhh.... never mind.. :D

[Big Skyz]

HideHunter, I actually do own an old Remington 700 that the bolt does not lock down when its on safety. It has come open a time or two when hunting in heavy cover. I don't use it that often so it doesn't concern me a whole lot. That and I rarely hunt in thick cover anymore. I find as I get older I like wide open spaces more and more.

Oh and btw, you sold more coons in one season than I've seen in my whole lifetime. Wow that is a lot of coons.

[Buckrub]

BWWAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Big Sky said he don't hunt thick cover no mo'................HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Just "OPEN SPACES"........
HAHAHAHAHA

BWAHHAAA

I gotta go rest my sides.

[Big Skyz]

Buckrub I didn't always live in Montana ya know...

[Buckrub]

NO! UTAH!!!

BWAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAA

You crack me up, boy! (come on down here, and I'll gladly show you 'heavy cover')

[Big Skyz]

...and you crack me up because you have no idea what you are talking about. In either state there are places I can drop you off and you'd never be seen again. I "choose" not to hunt those places.

[Buckrub]

I never know what I'm talking about. So what, Jack?

And one hunt down here, and you'll figure out what 'thick cover' means............trust me.

[DeputyDog]

I've never seen a road in any state that had "thick cover" on it, so I don't believe you either. :lmao

[Big Skyz]

I've seen the South and it is very thick cover down there, but it is a different kind than we have out West. My definition of thick cover is if you can't see through it, can't bull doze yourself through it, can't see more than a foot infront of your face, and it's dark because light has a hard time showing through, then it's thick cover. Now take that thick cover, add an extremely steep pitch that never seems to top out, and no roads, cell or gps service for miles, then you'll know what I have 30 minutes from my front door. If you desire even more of an adventure we can go an hour and a half from my door and have the same dark, thick environment, but add grizzly bears, wolves, black bears, and mountain lions to the mix. Where I live we only have to deal mostly with black bears and mt. lions. Which btw, is fine by me as I don't much care for wolves or grizzly bears. In the summer time you can add mosquitos, black flies, gnats, and rattle snakes as well.

[Buckrub]

You're gettin' worse'n Posthole. You're gettin' mad if you can't win. So fine, you win. Your cover includes mt. lions and grizzly bears, and meese's to boot. Our cover is just briers and vines and stuff. And you do have fewer people than we do, and a bigger area. But you got a LOT of nothing, not even air. My grandkids in CO Springs don't have air, either. I have to take some with me when I go there. I saw some of your cover..........and although I was about 400 miles from your house, I could still see it! :poke And we are one of the few places on Earth that have all five of the N. American poisonous snakes......rattlers are common, but safe, you can hear them. And we are the world's leading producer of rice. You wanna talk mosquitoes, you are an amateur, I assure you.

By the way, you guys get your sunlight 8 minutes after it leaves the Sun. In our thicker cover, it's 11 minutes. Just sayin'.....

[yellowk9]

And we are one of the few places on Earth that have all five of the N. American poisonous snakes......rattlers are common, but safe, you can hear them.

Maybe you're kidding. Hell, I can't tell for sure half the time on these forums. Arkansas has 6 venomous snakes: W. Diamondback Rattler, Timber Rattler, Pygmy Rattler, Copperhead, Cottonmouth, and Coral Snake. This is by no means a complete list of N. America's venomous snakes. Now that I think about it, you had to be kidding. Nevermind :lmao

[BarryBobPosthole]

All this snake talk is likely to make Birddog pee on the rug.

BKB

[Buckrub]

You can't tell when I'm kidding?

HMmmmm.

OK. Well, it's when I'm typing.

P.S.
Nobody I ever knew in Arkansas EVER got bitten by a snake. You? I know lots of folks had car wrecks, bad marriages, ugly girlfriends, tick fever, cat scratch fever, heart attacks, neuritis, neuralgia, and the heartbreak of psoriasis, but I never ever knew anyone get bit by a snake.

[DeputyDog]

I tried to lighten the mood by making a road hunting crack, and no one noticed you guys just want to argue today.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Good humor is lost on these deranged infidels, Deputy. I read it and gave a hearty HA HA HA. Even tried to help.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

My elementary years were spent in Arizona. They have 21 different poisonous snakes. I swear I ran across nearly all of them while running around outside...and a few inside!
Banded Burrowing Snake
Brown vinesnake, Mexican vinesnake, Tropical vinesnake
Sidewinder Rattlesnake
Grand Canyon Rattlesnake
Arizona Black Rattlesnake
Great Basin Rattlesnake
Tiger Rattlesnake
Hopi Rattlesnake
Ground Snake
Lyre snake
Mojave Rattlesnake
Night Snake
Northern Blacktail Rattlesnake
Prairie Rattlesnake
Southwestern Blackhead Snake
Speckled Rattlesnake
Western Coral snake
Western Diamondback Rattlesnake
Western Hognose Snake
Western Shovel-nosed Snake

This just might have something to do with why I hate them so much. Heck, this isn't even counting the non-venomous snakes down there.

[Buckrub]

I wuz talking about the USA, dufus.

And you cheated twicet. TEN of those are "rattlesnakes". We don't care if they married their cousins or not, they're rattlers.

[Big Skyz]

DeputyDog you just need to get out more. ;)
http://home.comcast.net/~bygonebyways/80-LA-Altoona-Original_80_2.JPG

[BarryBobPosthole]

'ground snake'.

Gulp.

Is there a sky snake then that's non-poisonous?

And Bucky don't forget, they grow pot out there so thick that even the Mexicans get lost in their fields.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

BBP, don't know if there is a sky snake, but there is a Flying Snake. Does that count?

[Buckrub]

Oh, lordy. Now I can't go back outside again.

[Niner]

How about the old Sneaky Snake?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Snow snakes are the ones that scare me. Makes ice fishing hazardous.
BKB

[Bwana]

That's why seasoned ice fisherman always have snake bit medicine with them.