And the election craziness continues!

[Thumper]

These close elections are a PITA. Landslide victories are much simpler. I guess it just shows the country is equally divided these days and we really can't agree with each other anymore.

[airbud7]

I just wish we could agree to disagree peacefully....I don't understand the protesting in a city that voted exactly the way you did?

Who are they talking to?

[Thumper]

As usual, Trump just needs to shut his f’ing pie hole and let the process play out before he starts running his mouth about election fraud and lawsuits while claiming victory. He’s his own worst enemy. He got my vote, but all that means is that the opposition is a bigger pile of shit than he is.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Maybe if people who are whining about how divided we are stopped calling the other side big pieces of shit we wouldn’t be so divided.

Just a suggestion from one of those bigger pieces of shit.

BKB

[airbud7]

I definitely agree with both of y'all....

I think I'm going to put some Jimmy Buffett on while I put this laminate floor in my hallway and washroom...

[Thumper]

Maybe if people who are whining about how divided we are stopped calling the other side big pieces of shit we wouldn’t be so divided.

Just a suggestion from one of those bigger pieces of shit. BKB

You must have a guilty conscience. I never mentioned your name. Let me clarify so there won’t be any confusion. Trump is a pile of shit. Biden/Harris is a HUGE pile of shit. Is that better? 🙄

[BarryBobPosthole]

sigh. Forget it.

BKB

[airbud7]

https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/01/0108f3dfcff601a227f3d8b1acfeb3ac.jpeg

[Chicken Dinner]

If they stopped counting now, Biden would win. Does Trump really want that now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hombre]

People are clearly divided I think we need to just accept that. This was built as an easy win and it's a lot closer than the media told us it would be. What we should stop accepting is people being divided and showing it through rioting, violence or looting. I can't believe that we've become so accepting of it that our response is to board up places rather than protect the business owners who pay taxes.

[Trav]

This thing is going to the U.S. Supreme Court, if only the conservatives controlled it. Oh wait!!!

[DeputyDog]

Kind of a surprising result happened in Indiana’s Governor’s race. Not with the winner, the Republican won, (the last Democrat was elected 20 years ago) but that the Libertarian candidate ended up with 13% of the vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

I think a viable Libertarian could have easily changed the outcome of this pres race.

BKB

[airbud7]

Trump should have secretly financed a libertarian!....just kidding but there is a word for that I just ain't had enough coffee to figure it out.

[Penguin]

These close elections are a PITA. Landslide victories are much simpler. I guess it just shows the country is equally divided these days and we really can't agree with each other anymore.

Jimmy,

I remember going off when Iowa had all of that caucus foolishness a while back. That is nothing compared to what I see around today. Don't get me wrong. There was some obvious fraud. There always is. And in a close election it makes it even more important. There were a couple cities and one state where it was obvious that serious fraud happened. And for the state we knew going in it was going to be that way.

But that said, fraud is always present and it shouldn't excuse what we see around us.

I find it hard to believe that a nation that first put men on the moon cannot effectively and accurately count a fucking ballot. It's not that fucking hard and it happens every fucking election now. If we cannot agree on rules that allow mail in ballots to be secure, accurate, easy to process, and a fair framework to allow them to be sent out then do away with them. Period.

Stopping vote counts? And then resuming them hours later? Requiring a time stamped postmark? And then not requiring one? Sending them out late for God's sake? And then NOT starting to process them until the day after the election? And then not even knowing if a signature or valid address needs to be included for God's sake?

Jesus Christ! Are we going to have to ask Belarus or Nigeria to come in here and show us how to run an election that inspires confidence instead of conspiracy theories?

And before any of you say I'm overreacting or that it is just the way it is, I want to show you exhibit A that it can be done right: Colorado. They have mail in ballots and an easy registration process that is above reproach. Compare that to the goat fuck going on in Pennsylvania right now. Is there a single person on this forum that is going to argue that the amount of fraud in that state isn't going to end up being larger than the margin of victory? Seriously?

Will

[Thumper]

Note: My mom passed away in May of 2019 and we received her mail-in ballot in the mail this year. Ummmm, yeah, I thought about it, but thought better of it and sent it to the shredder. BUT ... I have to wonder how many similar scenarios could have ended differently?

[Penguin]

Good example. You have to scrub the voter rolls and keep them clean to eliminate that kind of stuff.

Ah well, we have good and bad examples. For instance, unless things have changed radically since I lived there, that recount in Wisconsin won't change a thing. They have a good clean system in my opinion. I'd bet good money that there isn't even a couple hundred votes difference once the recount is done. Conspiracy theories aside, there was an enormous turnout but they allow same day registration so they just simply got out the vote.

Some other states? The ones still trying to figure out who won? That's where the monkey business is going on.

Will

[Trav]

Good example. You have to scrub the voter rolls and keep them clean to eliminate that kind of stuff.

Ah well, we have good and bad examples. For instance, unless things have changed radically since I lived there, that recount in Wisconsin won't change a thing. They have a good clean system in my opinion. I'd bet good money that there isn't even a couple hundred votes difference once the recount is done. Conspiracy theories aside, there was an enormous turnout but they allow same day registration so they just simply got out the vote.

Some other states? The ones still trying to figure out who won? That's where the monkey business is going on.

Will

The main thing I wonder about WI is how a 120k votes can come in all at once and not a single one was for Trump, that just doesn’t seem very probable.

[Penguin]

The big spike was because the big cities use a central counting location for all of their mail-in ballots and reported them all at once. The small locations count them and report them as they go along. They use a statewide voter database that polling locations can assess so it makes it very hard to get a double vote. They're clean as far as I experienced.

We need some transparency and some easy to access ways to check if your vote was counted. That would eliminate a whole lot of suspicion. And under no circumstances should we go into the counting process without knowing exactly how many early ballots or mail ins are to be counted. Better yet, do it ahead of time. What the fuck is so hard about that?

Will

[Chicken Dinner]

I think you’re right about the recount in WI, Will. Even Scott Walker says it’s a waste of time and won’t change more than a couple of hundred votes.

Both VA and MD (and I assume other states) allow you to go online and check when your mail in ballot has been received and when it has been counted. It’s not rocket science. Hopefully, these states that prohibit even starting to count mail-in ballots until Election Day will take a hard look at changing things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penguin]

Hopefully, these states that prohibit even starting to count mail-in ballots until Election Day will take a hard look at changing things.

These election laws, from a certain perspective, look like the work of deranged interior designers. Laws plopped on top of other laws with pieces clashing one with the other. Color schemes that shock the senses. Untucked corners of forgotten laws sticking out all over the place. And a battle royale cage match to see who gets to splash on the next bit of mismatched psychadelic top coat.

The whole thing needs a good scrubbing.

I swear to God I am going to trade in my face mask for a set of those Bose noise cancelling head phones for the next 4 years. We all know damned well after what has went down the last 4 years that we are going to have to listen to the complaints over this for the next 4 years! 4 more years of "Not my president!" and batshit crazy conspiracy theories.

Ghastly. It didn't have to be this way.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I heard that! I’m going on a serious news/politics/people in general diet as soon as the excitement is over.

I was just talking to someone this weekend about it seems like its easy to enact stuff in any level of ‘government’ and damned hard to change or end it. That seems ass-backwards to me.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

11987

[Penguin]

Yep, and still going. :p

I finally got a chance to catch up on the news of the election, and the reaction to it which is probably more important, and this is one for the books. Taibbi, Tonelson and a few others have wrote about what I had seen in terms of a possible Trump populist party forming from the GOP only they don't think it is as likely to be abandoned as I did (do... I'm still not sure) with a Trump loss.

The election itself?

I don't know about you guys but the process itself almost 3rd world to me. Voter fraud has always existed and it always will. But I have to tell you that the looks of this were very bad. I'm NOT saying the election was rigged or the fraud rampant. But I've seen comments from people in Germany and England and so forth where they just cannot believe some of the things they have seen. I'm not talking about Trump fanboys either. Normal serious people who are just gobsmacked at what they saw.

I hope we can all agree that plague or not we just can't allow mass mail in ballots ever again. The process needs to be so clean and so clear cut that any doubt on the results can be rightfully be dismissed as paranoia or sour grapes. For the first time in my life, in a couple cities and one state at least, I am not sure that is the case. If fairly large states like Colorado, Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, and so forth can do fast, accurate counting then by God the rest of them can. Having this constant drumbeat of large segments of votes coming in at 3:00 in the morning, or qualified election observers being thrown out of the counting rooms, and election officials so grabastic that they can talk on tv about finding 20k or 30k batches of votes that were floating around in the ether without hanging their heads in shame and vowing to resign after the count is finished, etc, is a recipe for conspiracy theories. Long election counts that drag on for days is the mark of a 3rd world nation.

We need an election commission with the express purpose of coming up with a set of transparent and clear cut rules.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m still waiting for any proof at all of mail in voter fraud at any scale. nor have I seen any valid criticism of how this election was handled.

Can you cite any provable stories of voter fraud?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I haven’t done an exhaustive study of mail-in voter fraud. I known several states have done it broadly for years and I seem to recall some sort of study that there was only a very insignificant difference in the amount of fraud. (Insignificance can be relative if a state like Georgia gets decided by less than a thousand votes.) I do think this legally mandated requirement that mail-in and early votes can’t be counted by Election Day (in some states) is contributing to the appearance of impropriety and needs to be addressed.

I think what I’d like to see is more early in-person voting. Let’s make it an election month that culminates on the first Tuesday in November.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penguin]

Off the top of my head there were what, 4000 or so ballots in Nevada that were rejected because of signatures that did not match the one on record? There's been a bunch more. In times past when we saw a red flag like that we would call in the law and wonder how in the hell people obviously not the correct voter got a ballot in the first place. And then half the time make the state redo their election. Whether it was actual voter fraud or not is irrelevant. It looks bad. It spawns doubt in the minds of the hard boiled who are on the wrong side of it. We cannot have a lot of ballots floating around like that. It is crazy on the face of it. It's why we never allowed things like this before.

And having even a whisper that qualified election observers were thrown out of counting locations is unacceptable. Period. It cannot stand. The US marshals should have rectified that in about 3 seconds. And now that we know how mass mail in ballots work we just can't allow that again either. Even if there was no crimes committed on a grand scale, we now all understand how easily fraud could possibly occur countless times on a small scale . You just cannot rule out that lots of fraud on a small scale occurred and now we know that even if it did most of it could not be even detected once the ballot is put in the mix and counted. You get it past the first pass and it is gold.

Above reproach. That has to be the standard. So squeaky clean that not one person in a thousand would question the results. Some states have met that standard already for normal voting. I'm not sure that mail in voting can meet it at all. That's why it has to go.

But don't get me wrong. I've been railing against things that cut Republican now. But there are things I'd like to see done which would cut Democratic. I think the mass use of early voting was a charmer. That ought to be expanded and done on a national scale going forward. Eliminate the long lines and waiting times to vote as much as possible. I think same day registration is great as well. We have pretty much standardized state issued IDs now, make us of them. Let anyone with a valid ID walk in, register, and vote. And have statewide computer rolls to let it happen immediately. Party objections be damned!

I say get a voting commission together and get this done.

Will

[DeputyDog]

I agree Will. I’ve commented to friends that this has seemed like a third world election also.

I also don’t like the idea of mail in voting. I just don’t see how it can be kept free from large scale fraud. I’ve seen the videos supposedly from Houston and Minneapolis of ballot buying. I also wonder how many dead people were mailed ballots. Hell, my Mom died in October of 2018 and was mailed a stimulus check in April of 2020.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk on

[Arty]

Something I’m finding pretty funny is watching the people who hollered like a stick pig about election interference for the last 4 years, are now saying there’s no way the election can be rigged.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DeputyDog]

I too think that valid government issued ID should be required. I don’t get the arguments against that requirement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

I know of observers in one location that were supposedly blocked in PA, but the work going on there was overseen. That issue wass corrected. I’m sure there will be a recount. To me that issue is the one valid one Reps seem to be hanging onto like its bigger than what it really is. There are lots of things where it can be said that even a whiff of it looks bad.

I guess I am caught off guard by suggestions we federalize election processes. That offends even my conservative values. And it surprises the hell out of me that its being suggested by Rs.

The mail in voting issues and later than normal results because of the volume are self inflicted wounds caused by state legislatures. states that have had mail in voting for years seems to have gotten their ballots and counts done on time. Why no allegations of fraud in those states? I live in a red state and even dumbass old Oklahoma managed to get its record number of mail in votes counted. Because our election boards started processing them two weeks ago. No fraud allegations here in a very big Trump win. Wonder why?

Prove it in any of yourexamples and I’ll listen.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201106/e78886d04e9b71354548cdd15fdca745.jpg


Didn’t some Judge rule that PA had to accept mailed ballots for 3 days after the election after the Dems accused Trump of trying to suppress the mail in vote by consolidating mail processing locations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penguin]

I live in a red state and even dumbass old Oklahoma managed to get its record number of mail in votes counted. Because our election boards started processing them two weeks ago. No fraud allegations here in a very big Trump win. Wonder why?

Prove it in any of your examples and I’ll listen.

BKB

You don't hear about it in lots of states, big and small.

I just did. AND we all know now how the fraud ~could~ work. And now we all understand that the fraud is very possible but would be impossible to detect in a lot of cases. It's not in any way as secure as in person voting. It has to go. But if you want mail in ballots, which I don't, then for God's sake at least look at how Colorado prepped for it and then did it. The most right way possible with this method of voting. But just to send out unsolicited ballots by the millions and then fuck around for a week trying to verify and then count them? Madness.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I imagine all state election boards will be looking at processes in the post-covid world. Technology has also played a role in some of the issues.

Is this the issue you were talking about in Nevada Will? https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/qizfy10oNt1vUDWSEnOy
It looks like their Supreme Court addressed it if it is. Signature matching tech has came up a couple of times. But that resulted more in manual processing to resolve those than it did fraud. At least that’s how it seems. I don’t imagine third world countries use AI signature matching technology.

Sometimes we outsmart ourselves!

BkB

[Penguin]

Yeah that's it. And it just shows that you have crazy stuff through the mail that in person eliminates entirely.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yeah that's it. And it just shows that you have crazy stuff through the mail that in person eliminates entirely.

LOL the issue was automation, not mail in.

Their IT department said that wasn’t in the requirements!

BKB

[Penguin]

For some of them. They were trying to figure out how to deal with mismatched signatures.

You have to understand where I'm coming from Posty. I don't want anyone thinking that I am saying the election was stolen or anything like that. If you ask me straight up whether I think that Team Biden stole the election? I would answer honestly that, no, I do not believe it was.

I think what happened was the same thing that helped to turn the 2018 election. A new method, ballot harvesting, was introduced in CA. A lot of people who wouldn't normally vote ended up doing so. And a lot of turnout was introduced into the election. The GOP adopted the method in California and reach equilibrium again this time around.

I think that kind of happened again this election with the mail in being so wide spread.

But for the first time in my life I have to use that word: think. Always before I knew in my heart that election fraud was so miniscule that it did not affect the outcome. This time around I think that it was still small.... but I do not know that. And I cannot dismiss it out of hand. See what I did there? :p

Any questions were only, in my mind, in a certain state up north and a couple cities. But in an election this close? I want to dismiss all the conspiracy theories out of hand but I can't. I can only say that I don't believe it was the difference. And I don't think that is good enough.

For me anyway.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I hear you. And we agree on most of it. I think the the comparison of our election to third world countries is unfair. The pandemic caused the surge in mail in voting. Politics created the issues that you brought up, IMO.
And like you pointed out, there are best practices already out there if we can stop with politicizing the election vote counting process. People are even claiming that the party of the state governments is driving the fairness of the process. That is an insult to my 83 year old Mom who until this year because of covid worked as a volunteer in almost every election in her precinct for the last fifty years.

BKB

[airbud7]

4,898,082 voted in Georgia

and like magic this morning, Biden up 1,097 ..........almost 5 million people and he leads by 1000...

11988

[BarryBobPosthole]

That state is most definitely headed to recount.

The thing is, all this winner and loser declaration stuff is bullshit too. Most states won’t certify elections for weeks. Recounts can’t even start until they are certified. One of the states, Michigan maybe, doesn’t certify by law until 12/01.

BKB

[Penguin]

Very true. And it reminded me of the last time I saw a state refuse to certify an election. Don't know if you've seen this one but it was big news here on the coast.

Ballot harvesting in NC:

https://www.rollcall.com/2019/02/27/n-c-political-operative-indicted-in-ballot-harvesting-scandal/

Two points:

1) This was discovered through the use of statistical analysis. The state board went looking for this because the numbers showed a big problem with the results being way abnormal.

2) This was only prosecuted because they leaned on those involved and got them to turn on the leaders of this scam.

I guess what I would offer is that IF there was enough fraud to turn this election it will probably show up in a real analysis of the voting data. I don't mean some precinct gets 10% more votes than normal or something inane like that. This was a big election and that could mean nothing at all. I also don't mean some jackass on the internet throwing out something he heard from someone who heard it from someone else either. Point and counterpoint. Some things look abnormal and can be explained readily once you look at it. But if you dig around enough the scam will be there. And it will be obvious. If you want to look at it honestly.

But one point about where we go from here relates back to point #2. Just showing it and having statisticians confirm a huge statistical anomaly isn't enough. And if that is what Trump is banking on then he should just be quiet and start planning his retirement. Knowing is one thing and proving is quite another. You'd have to turn some of the people involved and get solid evidence that you can go to court with. And recounts ain't going to change a thing either. Once the ballots are in the mix it is too late. The only thing that could be done after that is for the election board to refuse to certify the election and demand a revote. And that is if you could prove the scam first.

An aside: I have intentionally avoided any online info on this kind of stuff so far. Too much crazy stuff will be put out in an environment like this. But if there was sufficient vote tampering to turn the election it will eventually be known. It may well be too late to make a difference in this case though. An ounce of prevention and all of that you know....

Will

[airbud7]

Could be:...people live much closer together in big cities and it's much easier hand out a legal ballot and have it returned at your convenience by the mailman?.....the mass numbers of people that live in these cities would blow a country boy's mind!...I could never live like that!... But hey!, they got the numbers!...we don't...._<"insert :-("

[Penguin]

Well I had a couple hours today before and after we got that screwing from Texas. (I demand a recount of that pass interference call that didn't happen late in the 4th!) And I crawled around on the net looking at all the evidence of "fraud". Do I still hold the view that there is (and always has been) election fraud. Yep. I can also report that there is a lot of craziness going on out there. Goodness.

Conclusions:

1) Remember when I said that most of the stuff that could turn an election would show up in the stats? Well this is what mass mail-in ballots and harvesting looks like. TBH in some states ballot harvesting is legal. In some it's not. I'm not going to run it all down, it doesn't matter. It's done and nothing will be done about it. Most D's don't even think there is anything wrong with it and don't care. Most R's don't like it because it's easier to use it to get big gains in big cities than in small towns. Independents like me go either way. In the end it's done and once it is done it cannot be undone in an election this big and controversial.

2) I've seen nothing that everyone could agree with in the category of fraud. Those graphs of the hockey stick looking returns for Biden? Those graphs cannot give an accurate accounting and every one I saw stopped at the jump and didn't show Trump's returns afterward. For stuff like that the raw return data has to be gone over. I assume the Trump campaign is doing just that. But even if true that doesn't mean that there was one single fraudulent ballot included. Why? Because this is what a well scrubbed area looks like after it has been "harvested" (see point #1). IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT RIGHT.

Dead people voting? Yep, I even heard that Guliani claimed that Joe Frazier voted for Biden. Funny as hell if true. Again this is what happens with mass mail in and ballot harvesting. You WILL have this from now on if you allow mass mail in. It can't be stopped. But still that isn't enough on its own to turn the election. It is just a sign that the rolls were scrubbed well by someone with a lot of time and money.

All I see are signs that an well organized and financed group planned and carried out one of the most beautiful ballot harvesting crops imaginable. Again, I don't even know if it was legal in the swing states of not. I made it a point not to. In PA I knew it was illegal before the election. It happened. It won't be undone. Get used to it. Either deep six mass mail in or get ready to do it in self defense because this is what it looks like and it will be the standard as long as you mail out millions of ballots to every registered voter.

Bottom line is that if this is all Trump has I thank him for making the good fight for all of us in the manufacturing trades and wish him well in his retirement. This won't go away and his lawsuits won't go anywhere. Sorry.

Will

[johnboy]

One thing I have figured out from years of politics watching is the the Left is WAY better at dirty tricks than the Right. I mean, WAY better! It just seems natural for them.

[Thumper]

As well as rioting, burning and looting, then justifying it.

[Big Muddy]

11990

[johnboy]

Also the left never gives up. They stick to the narrative and march in lockstep no matter what. The right needs to feel reasonable and willing to compromise. Sometimes you need to adopt the methods of your adversaries to win.

[airbud7]

I wish all Democrats were like Barry....He is cool and calm...

[Thumper]

I wish all Democrats were like Barry....He is cool and calm...

But FUUUUUGLY!!!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m worried that we’re facing a pandemic that is raging out of control and it seems like we’ve forgot how vulnerable some pretty important stuff is. The second time around can we plan on meat packers to stay open? For hospitals to be able to treat anything but covid?

We’d better get our shit together and do it lickety split. And that ain’t political.

BKB

[airbud7]

Love you Barry!...

PS: can we still be friends and I'll let you do all the worrying?....Thanks

[BarryBobPosthole]

I can worry enuf for both of us.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

I copied this, but I agree, and I don't want to hear sheeit outta you, either.


"""If you voted for Biden/Harris just bend over and take it in the rear, when:"""

> Your taxes skyrocket
> Gas prices double
> Health insurance cost go up
> You lose your job because 15 million illegal immigrants suddenly become legal and your employer hires them.
> Minimum wage is too high and your employer can no longer afford to stay open or even pay you.
> Your automotive or industrial job is eliminated because it's shipped back to China.
> Interest rates double or even triple, and homes/automobiles are not as affordable as they use to be.
> Your stocks and 401k take a massive hit.
> Your otherwise safe communities are overrun by crime and start resembling Chicago, Portland, and Seattle.
> We are locked into more endless wars in the middle east.
> When the educational system goes down the crapper and higher education becomes unaffordable.
> Also when the new administration makes a play for all of your legally owned weapons don't look to me for support, safety, or compliance.

[johnboy]

Not to mention billions spent (wasted!) on useless, counter productive 'Green' initiatives. Don't forget the "Green New Deal". Like California, look forward to rolling blackouts. How about more Critical Race Theory. Joe is countermanding the Trump ban in govt orgs. White Man bad!

[Thumper]

I copied this, but I agree, and I don't want to hear sheeit outta you, either.


"""If you voted for Biden/Harris just bend over and take it in the rear, when:"""

> When the educational system goes down the crapper and higher education becomes unaffordable.

Huh???? I thought it was gonna be free!!?? :huh

[Big Muddy]

We had some extra money, last month, so we voted what to do with it.....she voted "new kitchen cabinets", and I voted "new pickup".....the vote was 1-1 until after midnight, when 139,000 votes miraculously appeared for the new pickup .....she's hired a lawyer. ;)

[DeputyDog]

Love it. Hahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big Muddy]

11992

[Penguin]

1) This was discovered through the use of statistical analysis. The state board went looking for this because the numbers showed a big problem with the results being way abnormal....

I guess what I would offer is that IF there was enough fraud to turn this election it will probably show up in a real analysis of the voting data..... Some things look abnormal and can be explained readily once you look at it. But if you dig around enough the scam will be there. And it will be obvious. If you want to look at it honestly.

Will

I think I have now seen enough to say that there are some questions that have been showing up in statistics and they need to be addressed. Enough "which of these things is not like the others" stuff to at least warrant some serious discussion. A couple of them pretty large.

Are we mature enough to actually try to get honest answers instead of "nothing to see here" and the inevitable "we waz robbed!"? I seriously doubt it. :p

On a more important note: I demand a recount of that end zone interference no call against Texas on saturday. God damn! There has to be a pass interference vote in there somewhere. My god one of the officials wasn't 10 feet away and looking right at it!

Will

PS: Virginia Tech and Penn State, lol. Had to say that to someone. :)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Hopefully those things will be addressed as state officials go through their retabulation and certification processes. Which the states have untl early December to either certify or not.

Are you aware of any of the lawsuits pending that deal with the issue you think exists?

Texas got some home cooking for sure. That no-call was the beginning ofthe end for W Va.

BKB

[Penguin]

Only obliquely Posty. I saw it mentioned but only in the context of the whole election. The issue was for Milwaukee county and when I saw the numbers I was pretty skeptical. And why not? There's some really crazy stuff being spouted off that you just can't take at face value.

So I did what any good scientist would do and went to the source data and had a look.

Wisconsin has a really good public database where you can check things out all the way to the precinct level if you wish to. I did and the numbers were there. So I checked to see what previous elections showed and it was wildly different. It wasn't the bump in participation, I expected that with a lot of mail in ballots. It was the amount of presidential votes versus down ballot votes. Went from maybe 8 to 10% loss to almost half of all democratic votes.

I know what the obvious answer is. What I think we need is the not so obvious answer but still rational answer that may well explain this.

Might be something and it might not be. But this is the kind of thing that causes suspicion and at least I think the election board should take a hard look at it because it is unprecedented as far as I can see and is just the kind of thing that, left to its own, can damage trust.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

So, its the number of ballots with no downballot selections? Looks like Wiscy got rid of straight ticket voting in 2011. Its been observed in many states that the number of incomplete ballots rises when STV has been abolished. That happened in 2011 when Wiscy was trying to supress as many dem votes as they could.

Self inflicted wound again. Votes on incomplete ballots are just as viable as completed ones, by law.

But it doesn’t hurt a thing to take a look at everything.

BKB

[Penguin]

That's might be true.

But the stuff I looked at was 2016 compared to 2020.

Will

[Big Muddy]

Here's my take on voting in any election:

1) Get off your azz, and, physically, go to the courthouse and register, legally, to vote.
2) " " " " " , and, physically, go to your voting precinct, and vote, legally.
3) " " " " " , and, if necessary, apply for an absentee ballot.
4) " " " " " , and, if necessary, call a friend or neighbor to drive you to vote.

This voting venue has worked pretty day'um good for a very long time.....if you're too day'um lazy to find a way to get to your voting precinct, or get an absentee ballot, then quit you're day'um bitchin'.....this mail-in voting sheeit is a disaster.

[Chicken Dinner]

So, just playing devil’s advocate here BM. But, are you saying that members of the armed services who have voted by mail forever are just too damn lazy?[emoji48]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thumper]

Yep, I've had to on various occasions. The most memorable was when I voted for Nixon in '72 ('73 election). They had JUST lowered the voting age from 21 to 18 and I was 20 at the time. I was also in the military. I remember it was a bit of a cluster-fuck and TBH, I can't remember the details. It's all a blur now, but it finally happened.

For the 2008 election, I was a long-haul OTR truck driver and voted absentee.

The same in 2012 when I was constantly in and out of the hospital for back surgeries, etc. usa2

[BarryBobPosthole]

Jim, I believe the Nixon election was in Nov 1972. I remember because I turned 18 that August and it was my first time to vote. It was an important year because people woke up and realized that if they can ship you off to Viet Nam at 18, you ought to be able to drink a beer and to vote.
My first time to vote.
My last time ever to vote for a Republican for president.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Then, Reagan took away the right to drink a beer at 18. One of the few things I disagree with him on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

The same guy that coined the term nanny state. Ronny Raygun.
BKb

[Penguin]

Hehe. Hank is such a bastard at times. Well done sir! :p

As the sworn statements start trickling in and the allegations go from ethereal to something more concrete, I also note that the statisticians have been hard at work. I have had only an inkling of the kinds of things they can do. I guess we'll all learn some of their methods in the next week or so. Some of the stuff they have shown is absolutely fascinating. But not my job. That's what they get paid for....

I'll check into this stuff occasionally but this 3rd world shit didn't have to happen, it was a choice. I was speaking to a friend from Australia yesterday and her perspective matched mine. She told me that it was incredibly sad that the 1st and foremost democratic nation on the planet could look so inept and incompetent on something so basic as an election. Sadly I think that was by design.

For someone like me who detests conspiracy theories the next 4 years could be hard to swallow. I have read some truly outrageous things purported as fact. And when that gets shot down it's off to the next crazy assertion. While the real signal gets lost in the noise. And like it or not there does seem to be at least some signal in there. If we're lucky we'll see whether it is anything to be concerned about soon enough.

Will

[Thumper]

Jim, I believe the Nixon election was in Nov 1972. I remember because I turned 18 that August and it was my first time to vote. It was an important year because people woke up and realized that if they can ship you off to Viet Nam at 18, you ought to be able to drink a beer and to vote.
My first time to vote.
My last time ever to vote for a Republican for president.

BKB

Yessir, I edited the dates after thinking about it. I was in beautiful S.E. Asia working the Vietnamese mission in '72 and remember the "old enough to go to war, but not old enough to vote" argument the year prior, just before I entered Basic Training. Ha! I also remember receiving my draft notice .... WHILE I was in Basic Training! Duh!

[DeputyDog]

Yessir, I edited the dates after thinking about it. I was in beautiful S.E. Asia in '72.

I was 3. One of the earliest things I can remember is seeing the Apollo astronauts driving the moon buggies and drinking Tang because they put little plastic moon buggy toys inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thumper]

One of the earliest things I can remember is seeing the Apollo astronauts driving the moon buggies and drinking Tang because they put little plastic moon buggy toys inside.

So THAT'S why they drove that moon buggy while drinking Tang!! :poke

[Big Muddy]

So, just playing devil’s advocate here BM. But, are you saying that members of the armed services who have voted by mail forever are just too damn lazy?[emoji48]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chick, I'm pretty sure you know where I was going with my post.....you know day'um well I would never exclude the military.....they have their own system for voting, no matter where they are deployed.....use your common sense, man!!! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

When you look back on how much sugar the most popular kid foods had in them, is it any wonder we have so much type II diabeetus now?

A cup of sugar in a couple quarts of koolaide, and tang was mostly sugar. We were a dentist’s dream too!

BKB

[Thumper]

We were a dentist’s dream too! BKB

"Were"?? What's changed? Oh yeah, the Cuban Embargo. Now it's high-fructose corn syrup! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

lol even then! The top two ingredients on the Tang list? Sugar, and fructose. No wonder we played outside daylight to dark.
BKB

[DeputyDog]

Interesting factoid....the inventor of Tang also came up with Cool Whip and Pop Rocks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BarryBobPosthole]

:toothy

[Chicken Dinner]

All shit disturbing aside, I think we need to ask ourselves who has the most to gain by all these bullshit conspiracy theories that weaken our democratic institutions. News flash: it’s not the Dems or the Republicans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thumper]

All shit disturbing aside, I think we need to ask ourselves who has the most to gain by all these bullshit conspiracy theories that weaken our democratic institutions. News flash: it’s not the Dems or the Republicans.

Libertarians? :laughing

[BarryBobPosthole]

Where are the calls to investigate how many ballots that were mailed on time to make the election day deadline but the Post Office failed to deliver on time? I’ve seen reports that the Post Office process more ballots on Wednesday than they did on Tuesday! And its the very reason for the three day extension in Pennsylvania. Maybe futzing around with the Post Office was about as bad an idea as having Republicans all vote in person duringa pandemic.
What Trump tried to do to the Postal Service is as ‘third world’ bullshit as anything.
BKB

[Big Muddy]

Well, I dragged my Republican azz out and voted in person like millions of other good folks.....our voting precinct personnel had been trained and/or had enough common sense to have everyone social-distanced and masked-up, and the voting went off like clockwork.....common sense always prevails. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

You did your duty, and I did mine by mailing in my absentee ballot. Which was processed two weeks before and counted on election day.

And that was common sense too!

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Here’s another one down.

BKB

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/525417-pennsylvania-postal-worker-recants-ballot-tampering-allegations-officials

[Big Muddy]

You did your duty, and I did mine by mailing in my absentee ballot. Which was processed two weeks before and counted on election day.

And that was common sense too!

BKB

Well, done.....as I stated, earlier, absentee ballots are the next best thing to actually pressing the touch pad.

[Big Muddy]

Here’s another one down.

BKB

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/525417-pennsylvania-postal-worker-recants-ballot-tampering-allegations-officials

I'd like to know why he recanted.....maybe Hillary sent him a picture postcard of a Columbian necktie. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don’t know if that’s public. There are still lots of various versions of the story. I trust The Hill about as much as any of the print media these days.

BKB

[airbud7]

Anonymous sources say!......you still ugly!.......NYTimes.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Whatyoutalkin bout Willis?

This story was broke by the House Oversight committee.

Unless I missed something?

BKB

[airbud7]

you still ugly!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Your Mom doesn’t think so.

BKB

[Penguin]

I don’t know if that’s public. There are still lots of various versions of the story. I trust The Hill about as much as any of the print media these days.

BKB

Yep... it's a mess.

I've read he recanted. He has stated publicly that he hasn't. Even going so far as to claim he tried to contact the WashPo and they refused to speak with him. And apparently there is some kind of recording he made of being interviewed for several hours and I haven't heard that this included a recant. I sure as hell am not going to listen to 3 or 4 hours of it.

~sigh~

But apparently he has been sent home without pay. Why for the love of god do this? Are they intentionally trying to start a conspiracy factory? It's Erie and that is not a huge place to begin with so there couldn't have been enough votes on its own to change things!!!!!!! Idiots. If the guy is a nut or a liar that will be found out soon enough. If he and his boss are mortal enemies that will come out as well. Let him and the others do what they will. And then to interview him for hours without a lawyer? Are these people insane? Appearance is every bit as important as anything else now. Don't retaliate or lean on the witnesses.

Will

PS: For anyone thinking I believe this guy I will say that Breitbart for now has not touched it. That's a red flag. Maybe they know something we don't.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Those aren’t facts Will. Those are statements made by JamesO’Keefe and Project Veritas.

BKB

[Penguin]

Which ones? Not being obtuse, just asking because I really don't know much about either or those two. OKeefe I've no experience with. Veritas has done some pretty good stuff I saw but did put out one completely misleading video I watched. Another I am not sure of. But I've only seen a few of their vids.

I do know for a fact that this guy put out a video denying the recant. I did watch that. And neither side denies that he was interviewed yesterday. What happened in the interview? If you think for one minute that I am going to listen to 3 or 4 hours of that kind of thing I've got a story about a fish I caught a while back to tell you.

After that? I really don't know. I've not listened to the interview. Hell I don't even know where it would be found or if it is out there. But he absolutely went on air and denied that he recanted and called the WashPo story a fabrication. And I've yet to see a signed document showing he did. But like I said before, the fact that Breitbart hasn't touched it should give anyone pause. I'd think they would jump on it were they convinced it was true. Maybe it's too small of a potato for them to worry about? Or they heard something about this guy that makes them mistrust him?

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

All of ‘em are being claimed by Project Veritas. He went straight there andthat is where the claims he recanted are all comingfrom. I’d suggest you ought to look at some background on O’Keefe and Project Veritas. Doesn’t seem like the kind of deal you normally accept. But we all have to pick the pepper from the fly shit and if that’s what you believe, I won’t tell you you’re wrong, I just have a different viewpoint.

The Trump legal team is like 1-12 in lawsuits, the sole victory being to move some poll watcers a few feet closer.

BKB

[Penguin]

You misunderstand Posty.

I don't care a whit whether he is telling the truth or not. What I want is legal documents showing it one way or the other. Apparently he signed one claiming illegal activity. I've not seen one showing he recanted, but it might be on the way. It might be out there and I just haven't seen it. If he's telling the truth that will come out. And if he's not that will come out as well. Either way punishment is due.

I want a reckoning. I'm tired of being lied to and someone here is lying.

Is there a legal document he signed that recants? If so I want this guy jailed. If not then I want the people who printed that he has recanted sued and jailed both.

Will

[Penguin]

Well what do you know. Good news for a change.

Looks like Georgia is going to do a full recount and audit. Thank you God. There's at least one adult in the room. This is win on two counts. First we'll get a chance to see how well everyone did at keeping the needed records for an audit. And most importantly we'll most likely shoot some of the more ~ahem~ crazy conspiracy theories down.

Some of this stuff would have a normal man reaching for his armadillo helmet if he believed it. :)

Still a lot of things to work through but the sooner you get the wheat separated from the chaff the sooner everyone can start to let reality seep in. That goes for both sides and those of us unfortunates in the middle who are caught in the crossfire.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Many states are auditing, Wiscy and Arizona are already 2/3 done with theirs. I
The one in Georgia is a routine audit they have to do because of new voting machine technology. The Sec of state decided to so it on the Pres race because its such a close race.

BKB