The Best Medical Care in the World

[BarryBobPosthole]

I hope you'll take the time to read this. Its pretty telling. and it also goes to show, that insurance and getting people insured isn't the real solution to any of it.

BKB

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/?hpt=hp_c1

[Thumper]

Well, I have to admit, I only read two of the eleven pages, but I've read this stuff before and it pissed me off then. During all my trips to Thailand, I met a zillion people on the flights I took who were either going to, or returning from Thailand as "medical tourists". I won't explain what that is persactly, just Google "medical tourism" and get a real education. A few years ago, Lynn was at work and started acting kind of "goofy". She was stumbling around, while talking she was almost incoherant and not making sense. Her boss called me and asked me if he should call an ambulance or if I wanted to pick her up. I picked her up and she was acting really goofy, so I took her to the emergency room. They determined her blood pressure was extremely high and went to work trying to lower her b/p. They'd try one drug with no results. Then they'd try something else ... again, no result. We spent 4-5 hours in the ER (she was never admitted into the hospital) and they finally got her b/p down, but never figured out what the problem was. She'd never experienced anything like that and has never had an episode since.

The problem was ... she had just changed jobs (the same job she has now) and there was a 90 day wait before company medical insurance kicked in. She had been there 2 1/2 frigging months and was just a matter of days before having medical insurance. Until that time, she'd never been in a hospital in her life and had never had any medical problems whatsoever. Sure, shame on us ... but we didn't even consider the 90 day gamble as being all that risky.

Imagine our surprise when we received a bill for 83,000 frigging dollars!!! As I said, she wasn't even admitted AND they never even had a clue what her problem was! What made it more disturbing is we started receiving bills from elebenty-bazillion people and companies we'd never heard of and had no clue why they were billing us. It was a total nightmare and impossible to figure out or even get a reasonable answer as to what the charges were for. We had one bill from a doctor who didn't even see her but we were billed simply because he was "on the floor" at the E.R. at the time! Huh??? I called all bazillion of the bastards one by one and renegotiated some of the charges ... but they would only offer the discount if I gave them my credit card number immediately, right then and there! If I remember correctly, I got that $83,000 whittled down to something like $45,000.

Back to the medical tourism. People go overseas in droves for medical care they can't afford in the States. Their round-trip flight, hotel stay for family/spouse/whatever, hospital treatment/stay, food and expenses, etc etc etc. comes out to be something they can afford to pay "out-of-pocket" when even with medical insurance, they can't afford to have the same treatment in the States. Thailand, India ... many, many countries offer excellent medical care at a tiny fraction of the cost here AND, most of the doctors are trained here or in Europe.

Example: My SEAL bud suffers from really bad PTSD. It hits him in his sleep and he goes ape-shit! Over the years, I've learned how to deal with him and get him settled down (I do keep my distance until he realizes where he is, because he can be dangerous) ... but it's truly nightmarish if you don't know what's happening. One night we were in a hotel room in Northern Thailand and he had an episode. He quickly rolled off the bed, striking the side of his head on the corner of the bedside table. He later told me he dreamed the VC had him pinned to the ground on his back and a dude was standing over him ready to thrust a bayonet into his chest. He quickly rolled over to dodge the bayonet. Anyway, he basically severed the lower part of his ear and it was hanging by a thread of skin. I got him all wrapped up in a hotel towel and we walked over to the hospital at 3:00 am and walked into the ER. (it was only a block away from the hotel) They cleaned him up, stitched his ear back in place, issued him anit-biotics and pain pills (meds are issued through the hospital pharmacy). Then they asked that he come in daily for a week to be checked out.

The following day (not the same day) we walked to the hospital and checked in at the front desk. After a short wait, the nurse walked us back to the ER and they removed his bandages, cleaned the site, examined him and re-bandaged him. The ER doctor then told us to skip checking in at the main desk of the hospital and simply come straight to the ER every day. We did that every day for a week and each time they cleaned, examined and rebandaged. On the final day, a week later, they removed the stitches and all was well.

Ok, we had the Emergency Room visit, emergency care (cleaning, stitches, bandages and prescriptions) ... a cleaning, check-up and re-bandaging every day in the ER for a solid week, removal of the stitches and a final check-up as well as a refill of anit-biotics, pain pills and (I think, something to help him sleep). We went to the desk to pay for all the treatment/drugs and were charged $87.50! Don't think the doctor was some slouch because we were in a 3rd world country ... we got to know the doc, he spoke perfect English, had attended med school in Germany and England, then did his internship in the U.S. as well as furthered his education there, then returned back home to Thailand to work at the hospital.

[Buckrub]

No thanks. We've had this discussion before. I am possibly wrong, but to be honest, I don't think so.

First, "Time" is the publication that had Obama's picture and "Second Coming?" on the headline. I don't care to read anything they write, and don't trust them.

Second, I don't honestly care about polls, and lists like this. I know that zillions of rich foreigners come here for care, and don't stay home, or go to Thailand, etc. (not that some don't, I'm sure some might). And besides, does it matter? We have sorry US Soccer teams too, but I root for them, not the Brazilians. If we don't have the best, then we don't. But it's who I'm going to use.

[Thumper]

Key word highlighted ... 'nuf said!


I know that zillions of rich foreigners come here for care, and don't stay home, or go to Thailand, etc.

[Buckrub]

I understand your point.

[Thumper]

Here's the top-10 list from Medical Travel Quality Alliance (why would the "rich" travel to the U.S? We aren't even mentioned but notice Thailand holds the number 6 and 8 spot.) ;)

We recommend these top 10 hospitals without qualification.

1. Fortis Hospital, Bangalore, India
Fortis Hospital provides excellent surgery options for medical travelers seeking orthopedic procedures including hip resurfacing and replacement, and has exemplary follow up care and services to monitor American medical travelers once they return home. More details here.

2. Gleneagles Hospital, Singapore
The Parkway Hospital Group may well be the standard bearer for private hospital care in Singapore, and Gleneagles Hospital is its flagship. Anyone looking for a top medical destination, and a top hospital in this destination, won’t find much better than this.

3. Shouldice Hospital, Thornhill, Canada
Shouldice Hospital continues to distinguish itself into its fifth decade of managing hernia surgeries. More Americans should know about and take advantage of this Toronto-area private hospital in the land of government-sponsored health care so close to home. Book well in advance as it is popular with both Canadians and medical travelers.

4. Wooridul Spine Hospital, Seoul, Korea
This unique hospital is a world leader in medical treatment of the spine. Wooridul’s influence and prestige has spread worldwide through its doctors and its joint ventures with hospitals in Asia and Europe.

5. Asklepios Klinik Barmbek, Hamburg, Germany
Asklepios Group is the largest private hospital operator in Europe, with more than 20 years experience in medicine, nursing and rehabilitation and unparalleled treatment options in over 100 facilities. The hospital in Barmbek is of particular value for some medical tourists who need treatment beyond the scope of their home facilities. It partners with innovative medical technology companies from Germany to test the most modern medical equipment before it is released worldwide.

6. Bumrungrad International, Bangkok, Thailand
The most well-known hospital for medical tourists, Bumrungrad has been taking foreign patients for 20 years. It has invested heavily in integration of medical records, pharmacy, labs and other hospital departments into a state-of-the-art electronic environment. Its focus on technology and its American style of management carry over to the Bumrungrad website, which is a model for other international hospitals. The hospital operates a network of exclusive representatives.

7. Barcelona Medical Centre, Barcelona, Spain
Barcelona Centre Medic (Barcelona Medical Centre) offers the most comprehensive medical care in Southern Europe. It is unique in providing a high quality service in integrated medical care, provided by twenty of the most reputable and prestigious health centres in Barcelona: 8 general hospitals, 8 specialised centres and 4 diagnostic centres. It may be a medical traveler’s one-stop-shop in Europe.

8. Bangkok Hospital Medical Center, Bangkok, Thailand
The flagship of the largest private hospital chain in Thailand, Bangkok Hospital Medical Center meets several of the MTQUA criteria that make it one of the World’s Best Hospitals for Medical Tourists™. Individual hospitals of the medical center in Bangkok include the distinguished Bangkok Heart Hospital, Bangkok International Hospital, and Wattanosoth Cancer Hospital. The hospital lists qualified medical travel companies on its website and operates a network of representatives.

9. Clemenceau Medical Center, Beirut, Lebanon
Clemenceau has ties with Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore and stands out as a leading hospital in the Middle East. For value, treatment and patient care, it doesn’t get much better than this, though some Americans may be uncomfortable traveling to the region for care.

10. Anadolu Medical Center, Istanbul, Turkey
Istanbul is home to many excellent hospitals. Anadolu offers a very high standard of treatment and care, and seems to understand the needs of the medical traveler. It has an international focus, with multilingual doctors and nurses, and a keen awareness of the services and support systems a medical traveler should have.

[Arty]

So if its so popular that two hospitals are 6 and 8 do you think it would still be 87.50 for that work?
More popularity and recognition typically means a lot higher price for services performed.

[Thumper]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger ... I'm just sayin'. If it makes you feel any better, both those facilities are in the capitol, Bangkok. I was up in the far northeastern provinces just south of the Laotian border, but the hospital in town is an excellent facility.

If you don't think our health care system isn't broken ... you have your head buried in the sand. I put our health care field in the same category as the oil companies when it comes to ripping off the public. They have something in common ... it's like extortion ... we can't live without gasoline and we can't live without our medical facilities. We HAVE to pay whatever price they throw at us no matter how grossly inflated.

[BarryBobPosthole]

My only point in posting this, and is the entire point of the article, is that Obamacare doesn't fix, and in some cases makes most of our cost issues worse. Itaddresses insurance, when it is really the cost of things that is driving the engine. And those costs are in a big way not based on supply and demand. And that part of it is what needsto e fixed. For one, how is it non-profits can make so many profits? And not be taxed? Thats nuts.

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good article just from an information point of view.

BKB

[Thumper]

For one, how is it non-profits can make so many profits? And not be taxed? Thats nuts. BKB

That's what I say about churches. What's that old song ask? Did Jesus wear a Rolex? I think "non-profit" money could be put to better use than stuff like this.

749750

[Buckrub]

Churches should be taxed. If they make a net of zero, no tax. If not, tax. "Non Profits" is a stupid concept. Sort of like "Corporate Income Tax". Just asinine, and shouldn't exist. People are all that there are, just people. They own stuff, or they don't. Tax them or don't. But don't dream up silly ways to tax them like trying to tax their businesses.......the net of that is always zero.

And I agree, Posthole. The high cost of insurance is due to (IMHO) increased facilities, drugs, tests, machines, and such. I'm alive because of advancements. Stents, MRI's, bypass, drugs to fix almost everything.....on and on.........none of these were available 30 years ago. I don't think they were invented or perfected in Thailand. I just don't. But........back to your point.....when all these new things happen, and EVERY ad in EVERY magazine is for a drug......they cost. You don't want to pay, then you won't get advancements. Insurance went up because costs went up, not the other way around. Some folks, like Obamacare folks, can't stand it and wrote legislation to fix it. But just like their proposed gun controls, all they are doing is exacerbating the very thing they are trying to control. It's because they are nuts, and charlatans, and panderers.

Folks just don't like rising prices. They love rising salaries, but not prices. Half of them like rising interest rates, and half don't.

Oh well.

[Thumper]

When did I mention anything that was invented or perfected in Thailand? I'm simply pointing out the fact there is no reason in the world that good medical care can't be REASONABLY priced. This whole article points out the ridiculously inflated price of bullshit items like a frigging aspirine. There's absolutely no need for it ... and we're masters at bullshit.

[Buckrub]

I understand.

I used "Thailand" as just an example. I should have been clearer.

I think the 'reason' our costs are so high is to pay for the research, development, and delivery of world-class innovative procedures, drugs, machines, and processes.........that are never developed anywhere else. I also wonder just how much of the individual's costs in other countries are government subsidized, and we don't get that info.

That's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I wish you had read the dang article. The CHARGES for those advances are billed at about 150% of cost. That's not simply 'the cost of research and advancement'.
BKB

[Buckrub]

You sure? How?

So how would research, development, deployment, and all the new stuff be paid for, do you think? By what method?

[Thumper]

Well, Aspirin was discovered (invented?) by a German chemist in the 1800's. I suppose our hospitals charge $1.50/tablet to pay for the research and development Germany did for us? Admit it, healthcare costs are out of control ... and I have no doubt greed is behind a lot of it.

[Buckrub]

OK, I admit it. It's terrible here, and we all need to stop using it.

Conversely, it's perfect everywhere else, and we should all move so we get perfect medical care.

I'll pack.

[Thumper]

I don't think I ever mentioned the word "perfect" anywhere in anything I wrote. Nevermind ... if it's broken ... just leave it broken. Perfect attitude.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Here's the rub, RUB. We don't have the choice not to use it. that's why its not the capitalism model you keep wanting to protect and preserve.

BKB