And the "winner" is .....

[Thumper]

Consumer Reports came out with this year's "most unreliable car in the U.S." list and guess who won .... errrr, "lost"?

The Chevrolet Silverado 1500 was "number one" (NOT a good place to be on the worst list).

To add insult to injury, the Chevrolet Colorado was number 6.

Nice work GM. :thumbsup

And to think I was once a GM fan for life ... or so I thought at the time. Just sayin'.

[Chicken Dinner]

That new Silverado sure is a good looking truck though…[emoji12]


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[jb]

Ya, that's like a beautiful girl with syphilis, I"m sure Thump knew someone like that too :fine

[Penguin]

They really have been on a downhill run.... but like always these types of reports are years late.

GM made the best drivetrains and the worst electrical systems in the full sized truck markets for decades. But man they were so much more powerful and dependable on the big stuff that an occasional check engine light or gas gage short was forgivable. But not anymore.

There was a girl that worked with my brother who bought a new Silverado last year. One day she asked if one of the guys could go to a parts store and pick up a quart of oil because her light had come on. They went over to take a look and there was a puddle underneath it. And a oil trail leading off the road, across the parking lot, and leading right to her truck. That was a trip to the shop under warranty.

A few months later the front wheel came off when she was driving into work. Not the tire, the wheel. The whole fucking thing just flung itself off into the ditch while the rest of the truck went skidding across the road. Again something that should never happen happened. This was again under warranty.

A warranty that she made sure she traded the thing off before its expiration occurred. Said she couldn't afford to drive it once she had to pay for any of this stuff.

I've driven Silverados for most all of my adult life. And they were the best truck made bar none until about 5 to 10 years ago. I wouldn't own a new one on a bet. When the restoration on mine is done I'll have twice the truck at about half the price. And they can take those extra two doors and put them where the sun don't shine. No truck I own will ever have 4 doors. Period.

I'd buy a F-150 before I'd touch anything else now. Sad.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I got my first chevy truck in 72, when I was still 17 years old. I had a front wheel come off too, right in front of the high school where I was dropping my girlfriend off. At lunch time. The problem then was the old man had changed my left front tire and only hand tightenedthe llugs and forgot to torque them down when he took it off the jack. It just chose a Murphy’s Law moment to come off?
My last Chevy was a 2000 that I kept 14 years and other than routine stuff I never turned a tap on the engine or drive train. Did brake jobs and front wheel assys myself. Easy to work onand reliable. Pulled my boat up to canada and back many times without a hiccup.
I have no complaints about Chevys. I had a ‘68 GMC pickup that I bought for $700, drove it and pulled boats all over the placedor six years and then sold it. For $700. Bought a new Silverado in 90 and drove it 9 years and never had a single problem. Had a ‘96 Suburban and drove it four years, never a single issue. Never a trip to the shop.
However, since I upgraded to my Tundra in ‘14, I can tell you this Toyota is a much better designed and built truck. But it should be at 14 years later. I’m halfway through what I put on my old Chev now and it hasn’t missed a lick.
Consumer reports can suck it. Half their shit recommends chevy trucks and the other half says its the worse.

BKB

[Thumper]

Well, the BEST part about the post is ... it at least got a few of us talking around here! ;)

Personally, I've owned 10 Chevies. 4 full-sized pick-ups, 2 small pick-ups, 2 Suburbans and 2 Corvettes. I can't honestly say ANY of them were trouble-free ... especially the POS Corvettes. I'd drive 'em on the weekend, park 'em in the garage and when I'd take 'em out the following weekend, something would have magically broken or quit working as it had sat in the garage, untouched. To make matters worse, Chevy dealers seem to have a mentality that it should cost you a minimum of $200 just for the privilege of using their driveway leading to the service department. My WORST experience was when a couple buddies of mine (one was General manager and the other Sales Manager of the local Chevy dealer) shamed me out of my Toyota and into a new Chevy (S-10) pick-up. Without exaggerating, I'll go on record as saying that was the worst POS I've ever owned in my life! I traded it (at a huge loss) about a year later on another Toyota, then told both my buddy's to bite my rosey red ass if they ever even considered trying to pull that b/s on me again!

[Big Skyz]

Zero surprise or shock from here. I wouldn't buy a GM anything on a lost bet. I swore them off years ago, and that was after owning quite a few of their trucks and cars. Never again, not ever! By swearing them off I swear a lot less at them. ;)

[Big Skyz]

Pretty much sums it up. Jim you'll love this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSBsq6HBBzw

[Penguin]

I don't do Facebook and Twitter and the like. But I still follow a few blogs. One of them calls it the "crapification of everything" and another says that we have reached the point where much new technology has more costs than benefits. I kind of agree with both of them. :)

In the 17 years since I bought my truck there have been quite a few changes. In that time the average truck sold has picked up 2 additional doors, about 50 hp, a bunch of unneeded and unwanted electrical crap (what exactly is wrong with a mechanical locker that you'd replace it with a rash of sensors and activators that won't work right after 10 years), about a foot of height, 700 pounds of weight, and an aerodynamic profile that looks like it could tear a hole in the space time continuum at about 80 mph.

And over $20k increase on the price tag.

All the while getting almost exactly the same mileage as my old 2004 Silverado. Progress?

An engine that jumps from 8 cylinders to 6 or even 4 on the highway? Shuts down at stop lights? Backup cameras that run the cost of a fender bender from a few hundred to a few thousand? An entertainment center that just begs to fuck up real good as soon as the warranty expires? Dah...

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Nothing but AM radio for our Chilly willy!

BKb

[Penguin]

Oh I'm alright with FM... No XM or movie screens though. 😊

Seriously, tv sets in the backs of the seats?

Will

[quercus alba]

I'd buy a F-150 before I'd touch anything else now. Sad.

Will

Hallelujah us Pford folks have another convert

[Thumper]

I can remember cussing at my new-fangled Verizon flip-phone. I'd bitch about all those miscellaneous (unnecessary imo) buttons and options. I'd scream, "All I want is a f'ing phone to make and receive damned PHONE calls!!!"

Lynn makes me eat crow quite often these days as I'm texting, emailing or Googling, etc. :slaphead

[LJ3]

I don't do Facebook and Twitter and the like. But I still follow a few blogs. One of them calls it the "crapification of everything" and another says that we have reached the point where much new technology has more costs than benefits. I kind of agree with both of them. :)

In the 17 years since I bought my truck there have been quite a few changes. In that time the average truck sold has picked up 2 additional doors, about 50 hp, a bunch of unneeded and unwanted electrical crap (what exactly is wrong with a mechanical locker that you'd replace it with a rash of sensors and activators that won't work right after 10 years), about a foot of height, 700 pounds of weight, and an aerodynamic profile that looks like it could tear a hole in the space time continuum at about 80 mph.

And over $20k increase on the price tag.

All the while getting almost exactly the same mileage as my old 2004 Silverado. Progress?

An engine that jumps from 8 cylinders to 6 or even 4 on the highway? Shuts down at stop lights? Backup cameras that run the cost of a fender bender from a few hundred to a few thousand? An entertainment center that just begs to fuck up real good as soon as the warranty expires? Dah...

Will

12768

[LJ3]

I agree with most of your truck diatribe. Apple carplay is a life changer!

[Bwana]

I admit to being a GM guy. My last pickup was a 2009 GMC 2500 HD that truly never gave me a lick of trouble. If memory serves me correctly, (and it does as I just looked at a photo of the odometer) I had 139,000 miles on that rig. Was lucky to get a good one???

That being said, I'm hoping to have the same luck with the current pickup as it too is a GMC 2500HD. It is currently just shy of 15 months old and so far so good. I did have an issue with my taillights and blinkers that I took it to the dealer to fix but the problem turned out to be a short on my fifth-wheel camper, not the pickup.

All that being said, my wife has started looking for a replacement vehicle. She wants to get rid of her car and go to a crossover/SUV, any suggestions as to what rig(s) I should point her towards?

[Thumper]

Cross overs and SUV’s are two different birds IMO (although they are both technically referred to as SUV's). We had a Toyota Sequoia (SUV) and now drive a Toyota Highlander (Crossover). Both have their pluses and minuses. Generally, the SUV is on a “truck chassis” (frame mounted) and the crossover is on a car chassis (generally unibody), so your ride characteristics will be different. It depends on what type of vehicle you are looking for.

[Penguin]

Hehe..... Except I am GenX not a boomer. :p

I should have stated that my primary gripe is with the GM half tons. From most accounts they still make a decent 3/4 ton. And for the farm that is what my next one will be.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

My wife has a Toyota 4Runner and absolutely loves it. Same chassis and drive train as the Tacoma. Park it next to a Hoghlander and raise the rear hatch. No comparison. Highlanders are toys.
I think for your winters you want something more catlike than a frigging crossover SUVwith a candy ass suspension. We driven in some bad stuff in her 4Runner and it is very sure footed. Great on the highway too.
BKB

[Thumper]

Yep, like I said, two different beasts. One is a covered truck with a rear hatch, and the other is a glorified station wagon. BUT, neither are those God forsaken mini-van thingies. Lynn’s Highlander is a VERY nice car and is a very comfortable ride. If we wanted a truck, we’d have two Tacoma’s. The 4-Runner is an enclosed truck. I’ve wanted to buy a 4-Runner for many years, but for some odd reason, Toyota has really lagged behind on the technology. Heck, the body style hasn’t really changed in 7-8 years and the interior hasn’t been updated in something like 11-12 years! Even the fuel mileage is comparatively sucky. I’ve heard rumors they’re going to get an update in 2023, FINALLY (IF it happens). I couldn’t tell you how many years I’ve waited for the 4-runner update, but stuck with the Tacoma because the 4-Runner was old news that has been stuck in a time warp.

[Penguin]

Oh, is it time to pick on Toyo now? Sweet. :)

As far as crossovers go... well they aren't really my style. But they are my wife's style. We looked at them all it seemed like. In the end we went with a used 2017 Equinox in lieu of a 2018. I just did not trust the turbo I4 to tote around a decent sized car like that in the mountains. Hey, they may be fine but the GM V6 has long ago put to rest any questions regarding durability. It is a rock and I'm not the only engine guy who thinks so. It is also no longer available in this model.

Anyhow we got a 1 1/2 old Premier version with 17k miles for about the same as one of the new mid-range models. It is great in the snow and it is a roomy vehicle. So far no problems at all. But it is not a truck. It is a really fancy and roomy car that goes great on slick roads.

About the 4 Runner.... my question has always been and remains this: How can Toyota manage to build an engine with that little amount of power/torq and still get that kind of lousy mileage? The worst of both worlds but nowhere near as poor as Nissan so I suppose that is something.

But they do have pretty good durability and if you're going to make a choice between power and durability that is the correct one to choose.

Will

[Thumper]

Yep, the 4-Runner is durable, no question about it. As stated, I've wanted one for years, but I have a problem buying a brand new 2022 vehicle that looks exactly like the 10-year old version. Then hopping into the driver's seat and seeing the same instrument panel and crappy interior as a 2010! The engine is STILL the tired old 4.0-liter V6 with the old 5-speed auto (there is NO other engine option on the 4-Runner and this combo also has sucky fuel mileage by today's standards). I don't get it. It may be on the Tacoma chassis, but that's where it ends. The 4-Runner is WAY outdated when compared with the competition, BUT ... it is, for the most part, unbeatable OFF-ROAD as far as comparable vehicles are concerned. Don't get me wrong, I love the 4-Runner and have been wanting one for years, but until the technology and styling catches up to the competition, I'll wait. Hopefully, the 2023 model will stay on track and actually become a reality. In the meantime, if you want to pay 2022 prices for a 2010 truck, go for it. Again, if you are looking for an off-road vehicle and could give a squat about the pitfalls mentioned above ... you can NOT beat the 4-Runner.

Yep Willy, Lynn's Highlander (Limited) is a nice CAR with plenty of room. To compare what I consider a crossover with an SUV is comparing apples and oranges really. IMHO, we own a Tacoma truck and a Highlander car.

[Thumper]

Ha ha ha! I just realized something! I have no dog in this fight! I've had a Toyota pick-up since my first one in 1981. It just hit me, I no longer have one. My Tacoma was traded for a frigging NISSAN VERSA and the left-over balance was transferred to a portion of the down payment on the motorhome! ARGGGHHHH! I miss my truck! :crybaby

[Penguin]

Me too.

Mine is sitting in the shop with the bed and both bumpers removed. And it has new fenders, doors, and a hood hung but still being aligned. Always a problem and this one no less than usual. At least the tough sections on the cab are finished up and looking good. :)

Life is not as fun in a..... Malibu Maxx. :p

Will

PS: Lesson learned: If you are going to go with patch panels go with Key Parts. I did some research and was told they come in right and are very heavy steel with a great ecoat. All of it true. Couldn't be happier with the cab corners and rockers.

[Chicken Dinner]

I’ve got an ‘04 Tundra with 110k miles that I put about 2k miles a year on to go hunting and the hardware store. It’s never given me a bit of trouble and will probably out last me.


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[DeputyDog]

I’ve got two Chevy Suburbans right now. One is a 2003 that has 340K on it. Only major work done on it was some tranny work at about 200K. It’s getting to be in its last legs now as the rust has taken hold and it goes through a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles.

The other is 2010 with 200K on it now. Haven’t had any issues so far.

I’m currently on my third Ram pickup for work and really like them and haven’t had any major issues with any of them and being used as a police vehicle, they get ran hard and also have lots of just idling time on them. Almost bought one for myself a couple of years ago but opted out.


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[Thumper]

My wife has a Toyota 4Runner and absolutely loves it. Same chassis and drive train as the Tacoma. Park it next to a Hoghlander and raise the rear hatch. No comparison. Highlanders are toys.
I think for your winters you want something more catlike than a frigging crossover SUVwith a candy ass suspension. We driven in some bad stuff in her 4Runner and it is very sure footed. Great on the highway too.
BKB

I just noticed your statement on the shared chassis/drivetrain on the 4-Runner and Tacoma. Older models, yes. These days, nope! Same chassis yes, NOT the same drivetrain. That's just ONE (major) item that's been keeping me from pulling the trigger on buying a 4-Runner (which I've wanted to do for a few years now). The 4-Runner still runs the tired old 4.0 liter V-6 with the 5-speed tranny. The Tacoma hasn't had that engine OR trans since 2015. I have no clue why they've been dragging their ass on a 4-Runner update, but they're LONG overdue. 2023 is "supposed" to be the year.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m not sure where you get off trashing a vehicle you’ve never owned. I’ve pulled my 20’ boat with the 4Runner and never felt it to be underpowered. That includes hills and highway miles. 270 hp isn’t a hot rod by any stretch but I’ve driven it the 400 miles to St Louis and back in 80-90 mph traffic on I44 and it does well. And we get typically 23-25 mpg highway and around 20 in town. Its easy on tires and handles well.
So you can beef about it all you want, but if I wanted a six speed automatic and 380 hp I’d have bought her a Sequoyah or a Tundra. Its neither, its a mid sized SUV with a stiffer suspension than most. that’s about it.

BKB

[Thumper]

Cool your jets Okie-Boy! It'll be a cold day in Hell before I trash a Toyota. I've said repeatedly I LOVE the 4-Runner and have wanted to buy one for years now, but I don't want to pay that kind of money for yesterday's styling and especially, technology. I've been following the model closely and chomping at the bit to get one, but they always end up disappointing me. I may as well look for a low mileage 20-year old 4-Runner and have pretty much the same exact thing they're selling now for double the MSRP. It's a hell of an off-road vehicle ... better off-road than on the street actually. It's simply outdated ... WAY outdated and NOBODY in the "car world" will argue that point. They haven't updated the interior, the exterior OR the engine/drivetrain in a bazillion years (by current automotive standards anyway). The drivetrain has barely changed since 2002 (but I think they added that VVTi or sumpin' like that in '09 which bumped the hp). Subtle little gizmo redesigns don't really count. I think they finally put in a digital dash a few years back, but the interior has needed an upgrade like forever and has barely been touched over the years. It does what it does very well, but it could do what it does much better if they'd update the danged thing. I really, REALLY want one, but the 2022 model hasn't changed any ... as usual. :(

You forget, I spend 10,000% more time around the Toyota dealership than probably anyone here (I have many friends there and often times, just hang around and visit). In fact, I was recently invited to a wedding between a Salesman and an F&I gal who both work at the dealership. My salesman actually drops by the house to visit from time to time and a while back, bought one of my Tacomas as a gift to his nephew who was headed for college. What I'm saying is, I probably stay on top of what's going on in the industry more than most. I actually WATCH these vehicles and drool at the thought of someday buying a 4-Runner. But it ain't happenin' until Toyota gets off their ass and gets with the 21st century on this particular model. If you can't tell by now, MOST of my complaint is with them sticking with that 4.0 liter and 5-speed (auto). It's a Stone Age combination ... although bullet-proof.

[Penguin]

Willie's Engine Theorem #1: Most new vehicles, and, indeed, almost all new trucks, need more engine and fewer gears. :)

10 speed transmissions are a joke.... unless you drive around in Kansas and then only with the wind at your back. Bwahahahaha! :o

4 overdrive gears are there for one reason and one reason only: Fleet mileage for standardized EPA testing... which ain't done in the mountains where many of us live. The only good thing is most of them can be shut off with driver input or the judicious use of an HP Tuner.

Weight, the problem is weight. New trucks and SUVs weigh hundreds of pounds more than they did 10 or 20 years ago. My FULL SIZE Silverado has a curb weight of about 4400 pounds and came with 295 hp and 330 ft-lb of torq 17 years ago. Todays "mid-sized" Tacoma weighs a tad over 4400 pounds and has 278 hp and 265 ft-lb of torq..... It's all about weight. Nothing the matter with VVT and 5 or 6 gears. The problem is that you are putting a V6 into a full sized truck and pretending that it is up to the task of performing like a V8. And the LM7 in my truck left a bunch on the table. You can pick up 45 hp and 30 ft-lb of torq with a good set of valve springs and rockers matched to a good truck cam. AND not give up one bit of mileage. AND move the peak power and torq down in the rpm range.

There's not a thing in the world wrong with the Toyota engine. The problem is that it is wrapped up in a full sized 4wd that needs more.

Will

[Thumper]

Well, actually, it's called a mid-size I think (Tacoma/4-Runner). The "full size" (Tundra/Sequoia) does have a V-8. What's being discussed here is MODERN automobiles. You live with the times. I buy new cars these days, but love and respect the classics. I've always heard the old saying, "They don't make 'em like they used to." On one hand, that sucks ... on the other hand, all I can say is, "Thank God!" It all depends on where your head is. I grew up in the muscle car era and was lucky enough to have access to and drive probably EVERY muscle car available in the '60's and very early 70's, but time moves on. I'd love to have a classic sitting in my garage to play with, but I'd have to dust off my roll-away and shine my tools up if I wanted to make it an every day driver. I would like to have the $$$ to build a nice resto-mod, but it ain't happening in my lifetime. Face it, pump all the horsepower you can out of one of those 850-hp land barges, but try to slow them down with drum brakes! Progress is good in some areas ... but nostalgia is still fun in it's own way.

[Penguin]

Sorry Jim I didn't mean to detail things. Just wondered why the torq/power numbers

[Penguin]

Sorry Jim I didn't mean to detail things. Just wondered why the torq/power numbers were a bit soft. Turns out they're running a bit of an Atkinson cycle so that explains it.

Point I clumsily tried to make is that emissions and vehicle weight have gotten things so throttled that you can pretty much up your power and/or efficiency over stock. Even match stock power below 2000 rpm and beat them everywhere else while keeping efficiency. That's never been the case before.

My old mentor/professor from college was here for a visit this week. He's an engine guy and his opinion is that the EPA is trying to outlaw engines without doing it openly. Looking at the kind of emissions regs they're bringing in would lead one to think so.

Will

[quercus alba]

Sorry Jim I didn't mean to detail things.
Will

Good thing Allison isn't in charge here

[BarryBobPosthole]

Sorry Jim I didn't mean to detail things. Just wondered why the torq/power numbers were a bit soft. Turns out they're running a bit of an Atkinson cycle so that explains it.

Point I clumsily tried to make is that emissions and vehicle weight have gotten things so throttled that you can pretty much up your power and/or efficiency over stock. Even match stock power below 2000 rpm and beat them everywhere else while keeping efficiency. That's never been the case before.

My old mentor/professor from college was here for a visit this week. He's an engine guy and his opinion is that the EPA is trying to outlaw engines without doing it openly. Looking at the kind of emissions regs they're bringing in would lead one to think so.

Will

I have to agree. I’m not at all sure how to reduce vehicle emissions without doing it through a carbon tax or by regulation. Of course,the freedom to pollute will be in front of SCOTUS soon, guaranteed.

BKB