Peter Capstick said

[quercus alba]

"It's the one you don't fear that gets you". I didn't see a dozen people wearing masks in the two games I watched last night. Several of them may have attended their last game as a result.

there's no bottom to dumb

[BarryBobPosthole]

We’re going to a baseball game in St Louis on Monday to see Albert Puhols plays probably for the last time in Busch Stadium, although in Dodger blue. Well mask up until we get to our seats. But our entire group is vaxed. I’ve stopped worrying about the unvaccinated. If they’re not, and it because of a medical ondition then they won’t be at a ball game. Everyone there should have made the will decision to get it or not.
Fini.

BKB

[Penguin]

Don't let it get you down QA. Just enjoy the games man. Can't let these things get to you. I can say things like that because my lovely wife Heidi just left for work and is not sitting here tapping her foot with a look that says "Et tu?" :p

Masks are a touchy subject.... with me no less than anyone else. But my opinion on them is pretty nuanced. I believe some masks work well, some work OK, and some are only there to because they are required or make the wearer or those around them feel better. I believe (and I emphasize the word believe because I have seen no study that tests this hypothesis) that this is the reason why they keep releasing studies that are non-conclusive or give signals that are so weak that you have to squint your eyes and look sideways at the results to even admit that masks "may be" statistically significant. You get one that says they work slightly and that is followed by one that shows they don't work at all.

These studies are grouping masks together as one lump and that lump includes effective masks and ineffective ones. My theory is that if everyone was wearing N95 plus with adhesive seals around them you'd see a strong nonambiguous positive result. If everyone was wearing those surgeons masks designed to keep blood droplets or sprays from hitting a doctor's face? Well, I think you'd be just as well off having a Lakota shaman whittle your spirit animal out of a piece of wood and hanging that around your neck to ward off evil spirits. There's a reason they don't wear those in Covid wards. They work great to squash sneezes and coughs but that isn't the primary way Covid is transmitted according to the experts.

So we go on arguing and pointing fingers and blaming others instead of asking why we cannot get a proper mask.

Will

[quercus alba]

What gets me is the foolhardy cavalier attitude people have about covid. I know the jury is still out on the effectiveness of mask and I understand virus size vs particle filtration. What I don't understand is the recklessness of people, I'm not particularly afraid of snakes either but I've got enough sense to wear boots if I'm in black mamba country.
BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed the games last night, especially UCF/Boise st

[Chicken Dinner]

It was good to have College football back. I hope I can still say that in a couple of years based on all the changes afoot.

When it comes to masks, my “trust” issues rear their head. I’ve started back to wearing one because I don’t trust anyone I don’t personally know to be vaxxed. I probably won’t need my seat belt or my fire insurance, but I use both just in case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thumper]

Well, how ‘bout this hypothetical scenario?

#1, You’re healthy and at a ballgame wearing no mask. The guy next to you unknowingly has covid, also wearing no mask. He turns his head to the side (the side you happen to be on), and sneezes.

Scenario #2, same as #1, but you’re wearing a cheap, crappy mask.

Scenario #3, same as #1, except you’re BOTH wearing a cheap, crappy mask.

Scenario #4, same as #1, but you’ve been inoculated.

Scenario #5, same as #2, but you’ve been inoculated.

Scenario #6, same as #3, but you’ve been inoculated.

Scenario #7, same as #3, but you’ve BOTH been inoculated.

If you believe the vaccine and masks are worthless, you should be just as comfortable with #1 as #7. Correct?

[quercus alba]

Looks like somebody's trying to kick cow patties today. Delta has nearly twice the amount of viral genetic material and from all indications is more deadly but that may be simply because it's more virulent. The good news is that the vaccine seems to be highly effective in preventing death and minimizing severity. Based on somewhat limited data it appears that Moderna is the most effective followed closely by Pfizer with Johnson and Johnson a distant third.

If you want to jump off a cliff then jump, just don't have hold of my hand when you do. :poke

[Penguin]

With those assumptions? That includes the belief that masks and the vaccine are "worthless"? I'd say you are probably correct. But anyone who says the serum is "worthless" hasn't looked at the data. It is not worthless and even a cursory glance at the stats make that point clear.

But whether the vaccine works in not the issue. That was established in the trials. The real issue is whether it is durable and safe. On those two issues the answers seem to be probably not and maybe. Whether the effectiveness is fading because of mutations of the virus or simply a case of waning anti-bodies.... no one seems to know. But the fading of the effectiveness seems to be showing up in most of the data from all over. The split between those coming down with covid who have and have not been vaccinated is changing. If the current trend holds you're looking at a break even of the two in a matter of a few months.

Safety? We don't know. There are all of a sudden all of these amateur virologists running around seeing ADE in every data set. These people should not even be in the discussion, but they are. Why? Because we skipped all of the important work that reassures those who are to be the recipients of these vaccines. They are forced to trust a big pharma industry that just hasn't earned it. MOF it could easily be shown that they have earned their distrust.

Want an example of something that should never be a question but now is because we skipped the long term testing? Try this:

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2021/august/covid-19-spike-protein-binds-to-and-changes-cells-in-the-heart

"..... The spike protein found on the surface of Covid-19 virus cells causes changes to cells in the small blood vessels of the heart, according to research we funded presented at the European Society of Cardiology Congress. Researchers from the University of Bristol have found that the spike protein binds to cells called pericytes which line the small vessels of the heart.

This binding triggers a cascade of changes which disrupt normal cell function, and lead to the release of chemicals that cause inflammation. This happened even when the protein was no-longer attached to the virus."

Hmm.... spike proteins unattached to the virus. Where have I seen that mentioned before? Where was that at? Oh yeah, we just injected a vaccine into a few billion people where the active ingredient is just such an unattached protein.

Is this an issue? How the hell should I know. I'm a mechanic not a medical researcher. But it is one of a few dozen issues that are lying out there unanswered. And in a vaccine that is to be given to people like myself with a family history of heart disease? Hey I would have kind of liked to have a solid answer to this before I got the shot.

I know you don't like it Jim, but this is not a black/white issue. There are people who are truly immune impaired for whom this vaccine was a God's send even with all of the questions. I've got a couple dear ones in my own family. But for everyone else? It depends on what the long term answers to these types of questions turns out to be.

Will

PS: I'm with Hank, thank god we have college football again. This has been a long damned year.

[LJ3]

Everything I needed to know about masks was made quite visibly clear to me on a brisk winter morning. Watching people with masks where the air was dry and crisp enough to show your breath made it VERY clear what any mask I saw was doing, including N95 jobbies. The same amount of breath we normally expel was going out the sides, top and bottom of the mask, complete unhindered in any way. Ask anyone that wears glasses.

[Thumper]

Ummm, it has to exit SOMEWHERE, unless you’re blowing up a balloon. The point is, if someone sneezes, how many snot droplets are going to make it past the mask? Or two? Anything is better than nothing. You boil your pasta and dump it into a sieve, it’s meant to stop the pasta and let the water through. Picture the water as your breath on a cold day and the pasta as boogeymen. Again, anything is better than nothing.

[Hombre]

I'm vaxxed and wear a mask...most of the time. But consider this

Gov: this is a deadly disease everyone must wear a mask.highly contagious

Also gov: this is a deadly disease, highly contagious...oh, your sitting within inches of someone on a plane....oh ya peanuts are important you don't need a mask.

[Thumper]

We’ll be flying to L. A. In November. We’re both vaccinated and we’ll be wearing masks in the airport as well as on the plane.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Julie and I have beentalking about this the past few days. We’re going to St Louis tomorrow for a baseball game on Monday night. The Dodgers are in town and its the last time we’ll get a chance to see Albert Puhols play at Busch, so we bought tickets a long time ago. We’ve decided we’re not masking up. We may wear them from the stadium gate till we get to our seats, but I can’tsee it.
The reason we got vaccinated was to getback to a normal life. And to keep from catching a fatal dose of this shit. If there are at risk people at the game, maybe that was a bad decision. We’ve spent the last couple of days watching a few football games and Ihave to admit, the shock of seeing people crammed in stadiums yelling their heads off was a double whammy for us. First,it was a shock to be shocked, knowwhatImean? We both had the same reaction. Conditioning? Maybe. Hell I’m still disgusted at all the jet contrails that are back in my sky. The second shock was the realization that this D variant is about to literally kick the unvaccinated’s ass. If the crowds at football games fit the 60% vaccinated rate, football is going to make Sturgis look like a walk in the park, spread-wise.

We’ll mask up where we’re asked to, but as long as we feel like we have protection, we’re done.

BKB

[Thumper]

I guess masks aren’t really a bad idea …. Covid or not. Mask wearing is common in Japan (even pre-Covid) and many other Asian countries. I suppose they could help even against things like the common cold. Kind’a reminds me of my early years. I went home with a gal who told me she was on “The Pill”, so I saw no reason to wear a condom.

She gave me the clap! :)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Was that in Albania?

BKB

[Thumper]

I was older and wiser in Albania. ;)