Dirty Rat Bastards! (PO'd Thump Ramblings)

[Thumper]

I went out to do a little bit of work in the motorhome and decided to exercise the diesel generator while I was in there. I went to crank 'er up and it wouldn't turn over, plus I was getting an error message showing low batteries. I checked my battery levels and am showing 15.3 volts on the coach/house batteries. WTF? Oh great, ya' practically gots ta' be a danged Electrical Engineer to figure out the different systems on these thing's anydamnway. I've got a chassis battery, two house batteries plus 200W of solar on the roof. It's one'a those deals if'n ya' wants ta' use "A", ya' gots ta' cut off "B" and engage "C" 30-seconds before flipping switch "D". Of course, if ya' wants to move the slide, start the coach engine and apply emergency brake. For the canopy, kill the coach engine or it won't deploy, ergo the stabilizers. Etc, etc, etc.

Anyway, I put on the old thinking cap. Maybe .... just maybe .... the batteries are low on water and are showing good voltage, but don't have any appreciable amperage. I figured this couldn't be since the motorhome company gave it a thorough check-out before we took delivery ... you know, one of those elebenty-bazillion point service/safety checks. Oh well, I dug into the battery bay anyway and realized the house batteries are sealed ... maintenance free. Crap, I'm stumped. PLEASE don't tell me the batteries have crapped out already ... the frigging things (two of them) run about $200 each (found 'em online as high as $276.60 each) and we haven't really used them as we've always had shore power available. Damn, damn, damn!

My next step? I resorted to good ol' Al Gore's internet to do some research. Well, I found out the batteries are NOT maintenance free after all, but now I'm confused. I looked at them myself and they had no caps, just smooth tops. WTF? I went back out to take a second look and realized the whole top of the batteries are covered with a large decal that (once I put on a set of readers) said, "Remove this sticker for maintenance access once batteries are installed!" WTF again! I picked at the corners of the stickers and removed them from both batteries to find the caps. Once I pulled the caps, all I could see was the tops of 12 DRY (wet)cells! Dammit! I ran down to the store to buy a pint or two of distilled water, only to find out nobody carries anything but gallon jugs. Oh well, I bit the bullet, bought a gallon and figured I'd have enough left over to last a lifetime.

I came home and it turns out you have to stand on one leg, face north, but aim your butt to the east, then pull a reach-around, kink your elbow, THEN you can get SEVEN of the 12 caps off. To access the rest, I'm gonna have to rent an engine hoist to raise 1200-lbs. of cables to gain access. But that's ok, I figured I'd at least top off the 7 cells I was able to expose, but used the WHOLE FRIGGING GALLON on the first six! Thank you La Mesa RV for your outstanding service ya' stinkin', lyin' a-holes. Was it hard to check the electrolyte levels without even removing those decals?

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I was going to put the trickle charger on tonight and PRAY they'd come back up and not have to be replaced, but the effort I'm gonna haf'ta go through to get those cables out of the way, to get the cells topped off and try to recharge those fully depleted batteries is just a bit more than I was in the mood to tackle tonight. I'll just get an early start in the morning after I've cooled down a bit .... THEN I'll still have to go back to the store to pick up ANOTHER full gallon of distilled water! GRRRRRRRR!! :banghead

[DeputyDog]

I live pretty close to the motor home/RV capital of the world, Elkhart, IN, and from the looks of most of the people who build those things your lucky it’s just the batteries.

I also have a buddy who delivered coaches for a few years, from what he’s told me, most of them have at least one major issue upon delivery to the dealer. I’m pretty sure he delivered to La Mesa a bunch. I’ll check with him and see if he knows any of the service guys there that are decent.

I’ve heard it a bunch that once you find the RV you want, find a dealer you like because you’re going to spend a lot of time with them and their service department.


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[Thumper]

Yessir, mine is from your area ... a Winnebago (Navion).

https://www.winnebago.com/models/product/motorhomes/class-c/navion

I've been a heavy reader of the blogs and there are a ton of Facebook groups for the various categories of RV's. I've learned that the general consensus is, once you buy one of these things, you'd better be handy with mechanical items because you'll be working your butt off with all the piddly-ass maintenance items and crap that breaks, falls off, quits working or is just plain garbage, The quality control is total shit and they get away with it. If you want to get into a dealer for service, you can expect a 6-8 month wait. The part the gets me is, these camper type people expect it, accept it and wade through the b/s on their own. If the car business was anything even close to this shoddy, people would be up in arms. Now admittedly, like anything else, there are budget units and pricey units. The motor home I bought is just a "small" (Class C) and they START at just under $181,000 (before options), yet people accept the crap workmanship that comes with these things. It's ridiculous, but the industry has the general public conditioned to accept the shoddy work as "normal" and "to be expected".

I remember being laughed out of a National Cadillac Parts & Service Manager's Meeting in the very early 80's where I was a speaker. In the audience were Engineers and high ranking brass from General Motors. It was 1981 and Cadillac had three engines available, the 8-6-4, (which was such a pos it was only available that ONE year), the pos 6-cyl they borrowed from Buick to put in those heavy-assed land barges and then the total junk Oldsmobile 350 V8's they converted from gas to diesel (they'd last a max of 18,000 miles IF you were EXTREMELY lucky). Of course, to fight the entry level BMW and Mercedes entries, Cadillac came out with a shit-bucket called a Cimarron, also in 1981 ... it was just a Chevrolet Cavalier with Cadillac emblems glued on!

Anyway, those were the days before the Japanese and Europeans had a foothold in the US automotive market and the general public was conditioned to accept the garbage the US automakers were cranking out at the time. My little speech ruffled a lot of mucky-muck feathers that night as I told the GM brass right to their faces that the total garbage they were pumping out of Detroit was going to get stomped in the mud by the Japanese and Europeans if they (Detroit) didn't get their shit together. I was laughed off the stage and basically looked at as a moron after that. The following year I quit Cadillac and went into the limo manufacturing business until the Hollywood Caddie dealer begged me to come back 3-4 years later.

I truly wish I had a video of that meeting and the highly controversial speech I gave that night. Once the Japanese stomped Detroit's dicks in the dirt, this old dyed in the wool (ex) GM lover laughed in their faces and I've driven nothing but Toyotas ever since (my first was a 1981 pick-up).

All that was to say, I see the exact same attitude from the motorhome manufacturers in this country. If Japan ever decided to build competitive motorhome units and enter the US market, it would be deja vue all over again. As it stands right now, I have one of the "Cadillac's" of motorhomes, but a day hasn't gone by that I haven't had to tinker with something to get it to work properly ... or to simply make improvements on what the factory was too dumb to figure out for themselves.

Now granted, the above rant has nothing to do with the laziness and b/s spewing shown by the dealership I purchased from, but it just falls in line with the general give-a-shit attitude shown by this industry right now. It'll bite them in the ass some day .... I hope.

[DeputyDog]

The whole RV and manufactured housing industry is meth fueled. They work those guys so hard and push so much for speed over quality that a very large percentage of them are regular meth freaks.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m suprised that if that unit has solar that itdoesn’t also have a trickle charger to recharge the batteries.

By the way, around here they’re ‘bat-trees’.

And can you not just start the damn thing up or plug it in and have it charge everything? I find it hard to believe there’s be a bank of batteries and no built in charger.
BKB

[Thumper]

P-hole, your noticer skills have really slipped with the old age thing and the combination of retirement and sleeping brain cells seem to have exacerbated the problem. I can pretty much answer all your questions with one word .... yes! But all the charging sources in the world ain't gonna charge a bone dry "wet" cell 'bat-tree'.

[Thumper]

The whole RV and manufactured housing industry is meth fueled. They work those guys so hard and push so much for speed over quality that a very large percentage of them are regular meth freaks.


I've learned a TON the past few months Deppity. They're cranking those things out so fast right now, I don't think they even bother with quality control ... just spit 'em out the back door and ship 'em! This is all new to me and I figured it would be like buying an automobile ... basically "plug & play". WRONG. The things start falling apart while driving out of the dealer's driveway. I used to laugh at Bucky, assuming he was being a nit-picky perfectionist and I could just imagine his hounding the dealer to death .... to the point they probably wished they'd never sold him the unit in the first place. It seemed like every 6-mos. or so, he planned a trip to Indiana to have repairs made to his camper. After reading all the blogs, that is pretty much par for the course. It's impossible to get into an RV dealership for repair these days ... unless you want to wait 6-months for an appointment, so people will drive all the way across the country to get the manufacturer to make repairs (which is exactly what Bucky does ... not out of convenience, but necessity). Wait for a local dealer to squeeze you in and they'll just order parts, then tell you they're on National backorder and they have NO idea when they might arrive. (it could easily approach a year or more) After "hanging out" with other camper types (blogs), they all treat it like it's a fact of life, you fix it yourself ... correctly or with duct tape and bailing wire, then continue on your merry way.

The sucky part is, if you want to jump into this motorhome thing, bust out your wallet. The motorhome/camper market is just like the automotive market right now. With Covid, millions of people have jumped into this camping gig as air travel, cruise lines, etc. have been on hiatus. You cannot BUY a new motorhome these days as there is a 1 year to 1-1/2 year waiting list. Buy one now and chances are, you'll take delivery on a 2023 or even a 2024 model. The trick is, finding a dealer who will lock in the cost on your purchase. The prices are jumping almost monthly on the new models and after you make your purchase, the unit you already reserved will also jump in price ... UNLESS you call the dealer on it and have him lock in the price on the contract once you hand him your down payment. (some dealers refuse to do it and in the fine print, they say any price increases will be passed on to the buyer) But what does all this mean? Like the automobile market these days, if you want your unit NOW ... instead of waiting a year or more, your only choice is to buy used. With the supply and demand thing, USED units are selling at full retail for what they cost NEW. I saw the same thing work to my advantage when I traded in my Toyota pickup, I got exactly what I paid for it NEW in 2015 and I could have gotten more if I'd have sold it to a private party! It's crazy out there right now.

BTW Deppity, after spending countless hours on the i-net and learning the ins and outs of this industry, it appears Lichtsinn RV is the GOD of all motorhome dealers. They're in your neighborhood, just down the road from the Winnebago plant. People from all over the country will buy from them, sight unseen, then fly in to pick up their unit and drive back home. It's almost impossible to find a bad review about anything that's actually under their control.

[BarryBobPosthole]

P-hole, your noticer skills have really slipped with the old age thing and the combination of retirement and sleeping brain cells seem to have exacerbated the problem. I can pretty much answer all your questions with one word .... yes! But all the charging sources in the world ain't gonna charge a dried up wet cell 'bat-tree'.

Apparently you didn’t notice the comment you made about not knowing how you’d get a trickle charger hooked up to those batteries. I was only suggesting that before you pulled a Buckminster and started in with a Sawzall.

BKB

[Thumper]

Got'cha. All I was gonna do is shut down the whole unit (got'ta pull the cables off it anyway), top off the dry cells and hook a charger to them directly, instead of waiting for the motorhome systems to handle the charging. But heck, just gaining access to the caps to refill them is a major hassle. And prolly why that lazy-assed dealer didn't even bother with it. They have a "ship it and forget it" attitude these days.

[Chicken Dinner]

My wife has caught the RV bug and I’ve been resisting it as the last thing I want to do on my vacation is navigate some land yacht around the country. After reading this, I’m definitely out…


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[BarryBobPosthole]

RVing looks like it’d be nice. When I was in the Air Force I had a really nice ‘74 Dodge B-100 van that I’d fixed up. My first wife and I camped all over the East Coast in it for 3 years. It was very primitive compared to an RV but its prolly the closest I’ve come to it.

I think I’ll stick with vrbo’s and places with room service these days though!

BKB

[Thumper]

Don't get me wrong, we LOVE being out in it. My main complaint is with the industry right now. They pretty much suck big weenies when it comes to service (unless it's to take your check).

Personally, if I were considering a camper/motorhome and was in no rush, I'd give it another year or two. The industry is totally insane right now and they're selling everything they can pump out. EVERYBODY is jumping into this camping thing as Covid has taken away many of the options for travel. I predict in a year or two, the used market will be SATURATED with campers being sold by people who jumped into this thing and will jump right back out of it once there are other options available.

I bought mine from a dealer who sold the unit new, the owner took one short trip and decided the camping thing wasn't for them and the dealer bought it back from them. Even though it had a couple thousand miles put on by the first owner, I still pretty much paid retail for what it would have cost new ... only because a new one is non-existent these days .. especially if you're looking for a particular model and don't want to compromise.

The experience is fun, but you have to have the right frame of mind. It just baffles me that the general RV'ing populace is willing to put up with shoddy workmanship like it's a normal fact of life .... just like we all did back when Detroit was the "only" place we'd ever consider buying our cars from. They'd manufacture garbage and like blind sheep, we'd buy it and accept it as "normal". That's where the motorhome industry is right now IMHO.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m not certain when it was that Roman campers started being so goddamned fussy about their shit, but I’m sure it marked the beginning of the Fall ofthe Roman Empire.

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

BKB

[jb]

Bucky should join in this conversation, I remember he bought a high end 5th wheel that came with a bunch of problems, his slider unit would start to come out going down the highway. I think he would vacation in Indiana so he could get the unit fixed.
By the way, where is the old fart.?
I have a similar problem with my Jaguar, I call her my High Maintenance Mistress, needs lots of expensive attention, but makes up for it in her performance. Batteries are the #1 problem with Jag's, can't let her set for more than 2 days and the batteries are dead, I keep her plugged into a Battery Maintainer if I know the weather is going to be bad for a few days. Even a low battery will cause all the warning displays to come on while driving, low tire pressure, hood latch not fastened, trunk lid open, etc.
You'd thing a 90K car would be perfect, but find my everyday Explorer and my wife's Terrain are 100% better than the Jag. in reliability.

[airbud7]

You should have bought an Airstream and pulled it with your Toyota.

https://bostonglobe-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/OxXUjM5ujEFqNsn_KxfebzC6axQ=/1440x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/bostonglobe/KTRA5HFPBFGCXICNJWY63ARVWM.jpg

Oh wait!....you need a real truck to do that....:slaphead

[Thumper]

Ha! Bubba, when I mentioned “European” cars earlier, I was leaning more toward the German brands. No offense, but you’d have to slap me upside the haid a few bazillion times to EVER consider ANY Brit car. I used to love the Jags (styling) back in the day, but those were also in the old Lucas electronics days and I knew better than to even think about it. I even brought a Jag XJS home one night (1993) but came to my senses and returned it the next day. (The dealer told me to take it for a spin and let him know what I thought the next day). I told him thanks, but no thanks! The stupid thing is, I bought a ‘93 Corvette instead. I’m not really sure which one would have won the POS award. I’ve had two new Corvettes (‘93 & ‘98) and pretty much regretted both of them. Then there were the two BMW’s (‘85 & ‘90) I’ll admit, the Bimmers were trouble free for the most part.

A/B, we're really talking apples and oranges here, but I'll play along. If you cruise most any large RV park, you'll find plenty of bumper pulls behind Tundras. Then again, I don't see a tow vehicle in your pic, so it may have been hauled in there by a 'Yota for all we know. ;)

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I know it won't make you feel any better, but when I was considering a bumper pull, I was planning on buying a Phord F250 or F350 diesel. They're actually preferred over your beloved Chevies. I have a buddy with a 35' bumper pull and he's a lifetime Chevy fan (and owner). I was at a campground with him a month or so ago and about fell out of my chair when I heard him say he wished he'd bought the Ford instead. I was ready to rush him to the ER thinking he was having a stroke or sumpin'!

[Chicken Dinner]

Speaking of Tundras, my ‘04 is in the shop today for the first time (other than maintenance and brakes and the airbag recall) for the first time since I bought it in 2007. Something funky is going on with the differential where it won’t go into 4WD high when the engine is hot. I’m hoping it’s the actuator and not the whole shooting match.


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[Thumper]

Speaking of Tundras, my ‘04 is in the shop today for the first time (other than maintenance and brakes and the airbag recall) for the first time since I bought it in 2007. Something funky is going on with the differential where it won’t go into 4WD high when the engine is hot. I’m hoping it’s the actuator and not the whole shooting match.

Even if it's just the actuator, I think it can be a hefty price. Don't they have to disassemble the transfer case to change it?

[BarryBobPosthole]

I had a coworker once who had bought a really small Airstream one a single axle. She said they loved it. Hell the rv’s you guys pull are fancier than the doublewides out in these parts.

BKB

[Thumper]

Yep, Airstreams are the Rolls-Royce of the camper world. TBH, I've never liked them ... the 40's - 50's styling just never appealed to me. They look like an old DC-3 with no wings. I'll admit, they are extremely nice though, just "not me".

Oh well, I'll catch youse dufes later. I'm gonna grab our old cat GG and let her supervise while I work on those house batteries. She LOVES that motorhome and when it's time to go, I have to drag her back out, kicking and screaming the whole way! If we ever try to go camping without her, she'll lay in front of the tires until we pick her up and bring her with us! Lynn and I laugh our asses off whenever we see this Chevy commercial on tv. It reminds us of GG. She's really old and deaf as a doornail, but prolly the coolest cat we've ever owned. This is her twin!

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iHTi7PBJLnk" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here's her favorite seat in the house .... looking out dad's window. Oh, and before you dickheads chime in, I'll go ahead and say it .... BITE ME! ;)

12842

[BarryBobPosthole]

I told Julie if she wanted to go rving I’d get a camper shell for the pickup and we could put some cots from army surplus in there.

I don’t think she likes rving.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I did the same, but with a VW Micro-bus.


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[Chicken Dinner]

Even if it's just the actuator, I think it can be a hefty price. Don't they have to disassemble the transfer case to change it?

Not sure, TBH. My consultant, Google, made it sound like a bolt on sort of deal. I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I checked a few minutes ago and they’re still “diagnosing” the issue.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

I did the same, but with a VW Micro-bus.


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Did you take shovels and rakes and other implements of destruction?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I’m practically Arlo Guthrie, Jr. [emoji41]


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[Hombre]

We've taken ours out 9 or 10 times and as far away as Oklahoma. We have had little to no issues with it except a water pump going out and a cracked regulator on the propane tank each of which were easy DIY fixes. That being said we're seriously thinking of selling ours. We have to rent a spot and here its prices ($290 a month going to $350), I'm having trouble getting my head around paying that plus insurance for the chance to take it out 6 times a year.

[Chicken Dinner]

Just heard back from the shop and the problem was exactly what I’d read on Google and doesn’t require a repair at this point. Of course, there’s a whole laundry list of other preventative maintenance items they’d be happy to do for me…


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[Thumper]

Yep Hombre, that’s about what my brother pays in Northern California to store his. It’s not huge, just a LTV van. Luckily, I have a 100-foot double driveway, plus parking off to the side. I also have the option of parking in the back … RV gate on the side and at least 1/2 acre open space in the back. I’ll admit, if I had to pay $350/mo. storage fees, it would be a deal breaker for me.

BTW, if you’re considering selling, now is the time to do it. The market is smoking hot, there’s very little inventory available and resale prices are sky high right now.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m not sure I’d have one if I couldn’t store it inside or at least covered. The sun is the mortal enemy of all recreational shit.

BKB

[Hombre]

Yep Hombre, that’s about what my brother pays in Northern California to store his. It’s not huge, just a LTV van. Luckily, I have a 100-foot double driveway, plus parking off to the side. I also have the option of parking in the back … RV gate on the side and at least 1/2 acre open space in the back. I’ll admit, if I had to pay $350/mo. storage fees, it would be a deal breaker for me.

BTW, if you’re considering selling, now is the time to do it. The market is smoking hot, there’s very little inventory available and resale prices are sky high right now.


Yep, that's another reason we are considering selling. With the market right now, plus the fact that in a couple of years we'll likely be splitting time between Oklahoma and Arizona, the timing seems better to sell now and pick one up later. If i had your setup and could self store I'd keep it, we really enjoy using it.

BBP - Spot on regarding the need to be covered. The tops have basically a rubber caulking and once the weather gets to that and causes leaks your in big trouble or so I've heard. ours is covered.

[Thumper]

Yep P-hole, I’d like an awning, but would probably loose it the first time a hurricane comes through and it would most likely damage the m/h on its way into the neighbor’s pool. We do have the $9000.00 full body paint option, so that helps. The standard is decals and they don’t usually do well in the sun.

Regarding the top, ours has some sort of high bucks, one-piece top, so it’s not as susceptible to the cracked caulking problems. It still doesn’t hurt to reseal vents and a/c, etc. to stay on top of things. As stated, these things are pretty much considered high maintenance. That’s what turns off many first timers who expected a turn-key fun house that simply waits patiently for you to take a trip without issue.

[BarryBobPosthole]

You could buy ahell of a cover for$9000.

BKB

[Thumper]

I was given a cover, but it’s a major pita. Think about tenting your house for termite fumigation every time you leave your house. Also, I have solar that keeps the batteries charged IF they have water in them! (Solar doesn’t work well under cover), plus air circulation is a good thing since our humidity is a Petri dish for mildew. Everything has its pros and cons. I have it parked in my driveway now, in front of our 2-story house which faces North East, so it only gets direct sun in the afternoon on one side. Not ideal, but it could be worse.

[Hombre]

I was given a cover, but it’s a major pita. Think about tenting your house for termite fumigation every time you leave your house. Also, I have solar that keeps the batteries charged IF they have water in them! (Solar doesn’t work well under cover), plus air circulation is a good thing since our humidity is a Petri dish for mildew. Everything has its pros and cons. I have it parked in my driveway now, in front of our 2-story house which faces North East, so it only gets direct sun in the afternoon on one side. Not ideal, but it could be worse.


BBP sure has a lot of advise for a man that self admitted to never owning an RV!

[BarryBobPosthole]

These are just ideas for consideration, thank you very much. Not advice.

Sometimes being an Ideas Man can be a thankless job.

BKB

[Thumper]

Ha ha ha! Yep. I figure for the $4200/year I save on storage fees, I can use for any repairs due to sun. ;)