The Big Disconnect

[BarryBobPosthole]

At what point in our human history did we become so disconnected from nature?
What is the cost of us turning our backs on it?
BKB

[quercus alba]

I think it started with Buckrub parking his four wheeler under his stand

[BarryBobPosthole]

The satelite dish came before that.
BKB

[quercus alba]

Are you speaking of misusing our natural resources such as clear cutting rain forest or strip mining with a total disregard of the consequences or perhaps humans losing the hunter/gatherer instincts?

Or maybe disconnecting from our nature by waking up a different gender than the one you went to sleep as. If this one then I'd say when grown ass men started keeping cats

[Thumper]

I have zero problem ignoring you buttwipes, so I have to assume you’re trying to draw LJ into this conversation. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Not trying to draw anything into anything. But at some point, as a human race we began to do things seemingly with total ignorance of the long term effects on nature. One example is fishing as a big example. We’ve spread invasive species far and wide for the sole purpose of recreation. its really much more ominous than just putting a few bass in a pond. Trout are another example. We’ve put trout in tailraces under dams with no regard to what impact the dam orthe introduced species have on the nature environment. The wildfires in the West are another example of thingsthat have been done in ignorance (greed) that have long term consequences. We ignored thousand of years of human cultural wisdom on how to manage those forests. Now we pay the price.
Just wondering is all. Not trying to start a fight. It just seems more evident now that things are going sideways with the planet.

BKB

[Penguin]

I wish I had the time... and the wisdom to answer this question the way I feel it deserves.

Man I think the costs are huge. And I think you are correct in that a line can be drawn from the human species disconnecting from nature and our heedlessness in the way we exploit it. Out of sight out of mind they say. Like a lot of things these days, our coping mechanism reaches religious proportions when it comes to justifying or ignoring the costs of business as usual.

I look at the area I live in and it sometimes makes me sad. When I was a kid the strip mines were so disfiguring to my mountains that I couldn't look at them without cringing. Now? We thank the heavens above that so many mountains were stripped so that mountain top removal isn't a paying prospect. The only new mine in my immediate surroundings lately was a strip and bore operation. But they are few and far between now. And, to be honest, I am lucky in that the New River national park system has put a lid on about all of it in the area.

I guess my canary in the coalmine is plastics. That's an easy one. There is no doubt what it is or where it comes from. You draw a straight line from A to B to C. And no one with an ounce of integrity can deny even a particle of the process. And there is no doubt whatsoever about the damage it has caused so far, although some of the dangers of microplastics are just now coming into focus. Plus our ancestors figured out how to package and save food and water in an environmentally safe way thousands of years ago. How much easier does it get?

And yet in the decades just past we have done a sum total of nothing at all to stop this.

Global warming? Chemical waste? Water conservation? Soil management? You've got to be kidding! Fixing those problems entails real costs and a very real lowering of living standards. If we cannot even take the simple steps to stop six pack rings from strangling sea turtles or plastic bottles from choking whales to death we aren't going to do anything else. At least it seems so to me.

Ah well, I'll continue to grow a garden, trim my orchard, take a buck or two in the fall, and drive my 4wd sparingly. Try to lower my impact as much as I can. But I don't kid myself. It isn't enough and it won't help.

Will

[Bwana]

Posthole, this is something that I too have thought about many times over, that and how some folks can't do the simplest of things for themselves. At some point in time the peanut butter is going to hit the fan, as the commercial I hear every day says, and it is going to get ugly.

[Thumper]

Ha ha! P-hole, I was referring to Q/A’s cat comment at the end if his last post. ;)

[DeputyDog]

Honestly, I think that the process really accelerated when the majority people became city dwellers and started to lose the knowledge of where their food really came from. Add to that, their only contact with “nature” was either the city park or the zoo.


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[Bwana]

I think you are spot on DD

[BarryBobPosthole]

I think you may be on to something. Population, and how its concentrated in cities, has probably produced as many of the clueless (from a nature standpoint) as anything. How the hell do yougo about curbing population though?

BKB

[Thumper]

True story, shortly after meeting Lynn, we took a roadtrip from L. A. (where she was born and raised) to Seattle. We took the scenic coastal road (hwy 1) to avoid freeways. As we were driving through Oregon, she shouted, “What is that!!??” I glanced out across the cow pasture we were passing at the time and scanned for deer, elk or whatever critter she may have spotted, but saw nothing out of the ordinary. I turned around and we returned to take a closer look. I asked what she had seen and she pointed and said, “Those things!” I still had no clue what she was looking at until I finally realized she was pointing at the COWS in the pasture! I could not believe this city girl had never seen a COW! (I might add she was in her mid-20’s then.) I pulled over so we could get out of the car and we walked up to the fence for a closer look. There were a couple of calves nearby, so I pointed them out and mentioned the babies were calves. Her eyes lit up and she said, “Those are veals?”

I have to admit, being with me the last almost 40 years has broadened her horizons a bit when it comes to NON-city life! ;)

A few years later, we mentioned to her mom that we were going camping (which would have been tent camping back then) and her mom commented on how much fun we’d have, then asked what hotel we’d be staying in! :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

I remember remarking one time about how many people there are walking around today with no earthly idea where they are. Just another example of the disconnect. How many people do you think you could find in a crowd that could 1: correctly point to the North and 2: accurately point to the direction of their home?
The answer is not very damn many. Ifyou don’t know exactly where you even are on the earth, how the hell do you even live out the day?

Maybe we just need more sabre toothed tigers.

BKB

[Penguin]

I think you may be on to something. Population, and how its concentrated in cities, has probably produced as many of the clueless (from a nature standpoint) as anything. How the hell do yougo about curbing population though?

BKB

"That old man upstairs, he wears a crooked smile
Staring down at the chaos he created
He said "son if you ain't having fun just wait a little while
Momma's gonna wash it all away
And she thinks Mercy's overrated..." Sturgill Simpson - Living the Dream

Momma of course being Mother Nature. And in this context it don't take an Einstein to figure out what washing it all away implies.

Will

[Big Skyz]

How the hell do yougo about curbing population though?

BKB

Well according to history: War, disease, and pestilence. Nobody wants to experience any of those things, but throughout history there is a cycle and sooner or later it will repeat itself.

[johnboy]

The Industrial Revolution. People moved from rural to urban environments. Food now comes from a store and not the garden. Surrounded by brick, stone, pavement instead of a natural environment. More dependent on corporations and govt for your living instead of your own ingenuity, skills and the ability to work with a natural world.

I used to believe that over population (whatever that means) would be the demise of the human species but now think it will be the reckless stupidity of those we put in charge. The earth has the ability to support (feed, cloth, house) a larger population than we now have if we would use our resources intelligently instead of pissing them away.

[Big Skyz]

I do think it's interesting that there is a fairly good sized movement going on that is relatively silent called "Homesteading" it's not the same as it was back in the early days of this nation. It's a term used for those that want to lived more independent of government or anyone else for that matter. I follow several channels on YouTube that specialize in this type of living of growing your own food, supplying your own electricity and water. Basically living off grid. Judging by the views on these types of videos and how many followers they have there are millions and millions of people interested. I live in a small town, and locally, most of us try to live as independently as possible. Recession doesn't really hit towns like this as hard as it does the cities. A lot of what makes national or international headline news has very little, to no affect, on many smaller rural towns. Basically if the world all goes to Hell I'm willing to bet the rural folks will be some of the last to die.

[BarryBobPosthole]

To quote another country singer, Hank Jr, “A country boy can survive”.

My son Dan is doing that very thing. He has a great job and works in a small town and drives 18 or so miles of backcountry roads from the boonies to get from his cabin to work. At the peak of last summer, his electric bill was like $60. He lives like three miles from one of the prettiest rivers in America.
there are many in his generation (he’s 38) that are doing close to the same thing.
BKB

[Hombre]

To quote another country singer, Hank Jr, “A country boy can survive”.

My son Dan is doing that very thing. He has a great job and works in a small town and drives 18 or so miles of backcountry roads from the boonies to get from his cabin to work. At the peak of last summer, his electric bill was like $60. He lives like three miles from one of the prettiest rivers in America.
there are many in his generation (he’s 38) that are doing close to the same thing.
BKB

Dan has it figured out....heck I think better than a lot of us. But, I wouldn't say many in his generation or mine either. Too many people care about $s and not enough about just living.

[Thumper]

My BIL has built a “ranch” totally off the grid in a very rural area in Texas. It’s pretty cool and the two of us have spent time up there just hanging out. He built a large compound out there for the family. He built a large cabin for he and my sister and a couple cabins for their two sons. Each cabin has hot/cold running water, a/c & heat, bedroom, full bath, kitchen, small living room with large flat screen tv and a nice little front porch area with Adirondack chairs. There’s a large fire ring in the center of the compound. There’s a large bunkhouse on one end with big dining area and huge kitchen. He also has a VERY large “party house” with kitchen, bar, humongous big screen tv, huge party room, stereo, dvd, etc etc. Satellite tv for each building (and I believe internet?). There’s an additional cabin that’s actually a maintenance shed full of mowers, equipment, tools, etc. He has a pump house with a nice, deep well. The whole place is off-grid and he has a solar panel field, a large building with $50K-$60K of batteries. A wind generator and another building with a large diesel, back-up generator. I’ve probably forgotten something, but he also has a trailer off in the woods, separate from the main compound, where he has a full-time maintenance guy living.

Yeah, he’s a bazillionaire and his “off the grid” (small city) is a toy for him, but I’ll admit it’s pretty cool. My brother (California) and I will be headed out there to spend some time at “The Ranch” in October for a few days R&R, then we’ll head down to South Padre Island for a few days on the beach (they have two beachside condos) and then return to their main house in Houston for a few days before we return home.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There is some good news here and there. Don’t know if anyone has heard of this project or followedit but its a big one. I saw something on pbs last week about it but only caught the tail end and now can’t find the video story anywhere. Guess you’ll have to read if you’re interested.

BKB

https://res.us/home/restoring-at-scale/klamath-river-restoration/

[Penguin]

I do think it's interesting that there is a fairly good sized movement going on that is relatively silent called "Homesteading"...

I've watched every episode of Homestead Rescue. :)

I agree with you Troy, independence is what they're after and what drives this movement. Now imagine that we eliminated the biggest financial Sword of Damocles for US families: medical coverage. If we had nationalized medicine could you imagine how many people would just walk away? Homestead, start their own business, whatever? Yep, that's why it hasn't happened so far.

I'm like you, I try to gain some level of independence over my life as I can. But man, it is difficult isn't it? Being around family and friends that you help and get help from makes it a lot easier. And enjoyable.

Will

[Big Skyz]

Penguin, I 100% agree with you about the nationalized medicine. The cost of medical care and insurance devastating and debilitating to the growth of this country. I know the democrats really push socialized medicine and this is one point I do agree with them.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m for ‘socialized’ insurance, but not socialized medicine.
BKB

[quercus alba]

I'm not a socialized medicine advocate for the simple reason, the government hasn't shown the capability to manage even the simplest of task much less something the magnitude of national healthcare. Everything uncle Sam sticks his finger into turns into a major Charlie Foxtrot.

Bring it down to the state level and I'd be willing to listen

[Big Skyz]

I know this much there are some other countries that have it and it works quite well. Canada is not the example I would use. I hear Panama's is quite good. Thumper will know more than I do about this, but I've heard Thailand's is good as well.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I use Canada only as an example. Its health insurance is provided by thegovernment and most of its doctors and hospitals are privately owned like ours. In England, the entire health care system, doctors included work for the government.

And just to look at the numbers, the US currently has about 64 million people on Medicare, our government provided insurance. The total population of Canada is around 38 million. So we do have a bit of expertise at providing government health insurance and as a user of it, I can say it works pretty well. The biggest issuesis Congress keeps its hands tied for the sole reason to protect the profits of big pharma. Well, they actually say letting medicare negotiate prices is socialized medicine. You make up your own mind which is true.

i’ve not been to Panama except for a cruise through the canal. From what I’ve heard of it its a pretty cool place andhas their stuff pretty together. Its definitely going to be on our travel list. I most definitelywant to dive on the Pacific side. Have a gander at Coiba Island on the googles.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

SMDH. Only in America.
BKB

Forest bathing could be the key to feeling better -- and you can even do it at work
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/22/health/forest-bathing-wellness/index.html

[Chicken Dinner]

Is that the same as skinny dipping?


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[Hombre]

Sounds like skinny dipping alone. That ain't no fun.

[Chicken Dinner]

Sounds like skinny dipping alone. That ain't no fun.

That’s a fair point.


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