Hey Thump...

[johnboy]

Wondering how that new rv of your is working out. I'm kinda looking at a 2020 Sprinter based B+ on a 2019 Sprinter chassis (Leisure Travel Vans) but am very nervous about the Mercedes diesel engine. I really wanted a Ford Transit based unit with the 3.5 EcoBoost but delivery on a new one is 18-24 months. Too long a wait for this old fella (don't even buy green bananas :oldfart ) so this used one might have to do.

I learned from my last diesel truck just how fragile the emissions systems are and what a pain it is when they take a crap. Also harder to get fuel and now DEF is running short so a little leary about another diesel.

Thoughts?

[Thumper]

Dang John, I thought you'd bailed out of the camper gig after that nasty spill a while back. I know your dilemma, but the advantage you have over me, is more experience. I've rented and/or borrowed a few motorhomes over the years, all from Class A's to class C's. From the very limited experience I'd had, I swore if I ever bought one, I'd avoid a gasser like the plague. I remember a gasser Class A I rented once and was in the Rocky Mountains. What a royal PITA. It had the V-10 Ford engine. NO torque to pull those grades, the engine (which was mounted between the two front seats) was noisy as all get out and seemed like it had to be running at least 4500 RPM to get out of it's own way. Of course, fuel mileage was about 6-7 mpg IF I wasn't doing a lot of climbing. It wasn't a clunker, it was new with about 4000-5000 miles on the clock. It was just the nature of the beast and all but one of the M/H's I drove were gassers, then when I drove a diesel, it was like night and day. Torque is king with these things IMO. As for what I looked for when I decided to buy my own, I went through a whirlwind decision making process. As you well know, there are pro's and con's to EVERY engine/trans combination as well as actual floor plans. The LTV is a NICE motorhome (and it's built up in your neck of the woods). My brother has a 2015 LTV (Unity) that he bought new and they must have a bazillion miles on the thing by now. They're constantly traveling. In fact, I'll be meeting up with him and his wife in Iowa in a couple months for the start of a 5000 mile excursion (not sure how many miles for them as they'll be coming out of Northern California, where they live). He has the diesel Sprinter also. I once asked him if he had it to do over again, would he go gas or diesel. With zero hesitation, he said diesel.

Me? When I first started shopping (did it for almost a year before pulling the trigger), I went from wanting a bumper-pull, to a fiver (both with an F350 I'd planned to purchase). I was initially spoiled by the space and openness. Then I started thinking about how I wanted to use the thing. I had visions of an Alaskan trip on the ALCAN, then Florida, to the west coast, to the PNW and back again. Extensive tours of the east coast, etc. The idea of PULLING a house behind a truck, started losing it's appeal to me. I also started researching the camping situation .... especially the major National Parks out west, and that's when I found out length can be a detriment. Many of the National Parks have length limits, many times around 25-27 feet. That was a surprise I hadn't thought about. The Class B or C seemed like the logical choice. My brother has no slide-out on his LTV and I think I'd get a bit claustrophobic in the thing personally. I've always been a bit confused about the B+ designation and figured the B+ was just a marketing term. Aren't they all either a B or C and wouldn't a B+ be a class C? (I'm just not quite sure where or how they draw the line between a B+ and a C) I do see references made to the LTV Class B+, but when I checked the LTV website quite a while back, they only listed Class B's and Class C's, yet DEALERS would advertise LTV Class B+'s. Confusing to me. My brother's Unity has a stand-up shower, but no slide. I'd assume what makes a B+ would maybe be a sleeper in the overhead? I've never really known how to differentiate TBH.

As for the Ford EcoBoost, I've heard good things about it, but have zero personal experience. I just can't get my head around lugging a motorhome around with a gasser, but I'm still a bit of a dinosaur regarding the new advances, so my opinion may be dated. I will say, that little Sprinter does a fantastic job and I have no complaints, other than the price for services! SON OF A BIATCH!!! Mercedes thinks their shit don't stink when it comes to their service prices, but there are work-arounds if you can find a trusted Sprinter mechanic. Our Mercedes dealer is 5-mins. from my house and has it's own dedicated Sprinter service department, so it's convenient and I just don't let them load me up on nit-picky crap. For example, during a basic service, do NOT let them top off the DEF ... they charge something like an asinine $47/gal. if they do it! Little crap like that. Heck, a fuel filter can run you $250-$950 depending on the dealer, so you HAVE to shop around. Many owners do the services themselves, but I got over that years ago and pretty much hung up my tools. There are also quite a few VERY expensive mistakes you can make while doing a basic service yourself. Maintenance on a gasser is much cheaper. My thought on the subject, if you're going to be doing short, weekender type trips relatively close to home and no racking up a ton of mileage (KM's in the Canuckian language ;) ), a gasser might be the way to go. If you're going to be piling on the miles, I'd certainly consider the diesel as the best option.

I've heard of DEF shortages, but have not seen even a hint of a shortage here. I assume it may be a regional thing, but you can ALWAYS get it at the pump at most any truck stop. The trucks aren't going to be shut down due to not being able to find DEF. I just checked the shelves at our local Wally World today and they are fully stocked with their brand (Super Tech), as well as the pricier Blue DEF and Blue DEF Platinum. I've had no issues with DEF, but you'll always have the two camps (DEF haters and those who could give a rat's ass one way or the other). Many say DEF is DEF and to buy the cheapest you can find. Others swear by the more expensive stuff. I think it boils down to the individual. I have a buddy who ONLY runs premium gas in his frigging Toyota Camry. I've argued with him 'til I'm blue in the face that he's throwing his money away, but he won't budge. A 2-1/2 gallon box (you do the metric conversion!) runs $10-$12 at Wally World. So far, it appears I'm getting something like 1000-1200 miles on a gallon of DEF (no mountain climbing), so it's pretty much a non-issue really. The tank is 6.6 gallons, so it's not a common thing to have to worry about.

As for your choice, I'd (personally) go for the Sprinter and the 2020 is a good choice if you're going used. The 2019 Chassis had some major upgrades over the 2018 and prior chassis'. One is, they went from a 5-speed to a 7-speed transmission. The body and interior is all new on the 2019 chassis as well as many of the electronics and safety features. When I first considered the Sprinter, that was one of my main criteria, "nothing but 2020 or newer" (Most 2020 units are on the 2019 chassis) One thing that'll save you some grief, the suspensions on the 2018 and prior chassis had some pretty anemic handling due to a small sway bar. Most EVERYONE with the earlier chassis' have upgraded their sway bar (to Hellwig) and (FOX) shocks. The 2019 and up chassis has a much beefier sway bar and there's virtually no difference between the stock and "upgraded" sway bar. I think the shock upgrade would probably be an improvement, but it's extremely low on my priority list. I don't know if LTV used any of the 2BE Chassis Exchange Packages on their units, but brush up on it and check out the one you're looking at. It was an $8700 credit to the normal price and is basically just a number of reduced features on the Sprinter chassis. Again, I'm not totally familiar with the LTV's, but when I was searching, I definitely wanted the diesel generator. It may not be as big a deal to you as far north as you are, but A/C is king here and it's a pita to have to refill with propane every few days. Mine had the option of propane or diesel, but the diesel actually runs off the Sprinter fuel tank (gets better fuel "mileage" than propane, plus much easier to fuel up). It has a safety feature where the generator cuts off when the Sprinter tank drops to 1/4 full (so you don't get stranded in the middle of nowhere).

Out of curiosity, which LTV model are you looking at? Oh, BTW, regarding the Sprinters, I've been getting 15MPG, but really haven't taken any long trips yet to get an accurate "real world" average, My brother gets 17-18 with his LTV, but his is a much lighter unit than mine.

[johnboy]

Jim, this unit is a LTV Serenity with very low miles on it (less than 5k). It's not the interior that I would choose if there were others to choose from but beggars can't be choosers in this crazy market. It is the perfect size for what I want however, so might have to rethink a bit. I've been looking at B style vans for a while as we want something reasonably handy to drive and park and don't plan on a toad. Unfortunately, after looking at those units, decided they are just too small - no storage space at all and no separate shower. A B+ or widebody does fit the bill.

I 'discovered' Leisure while looking for Pleasure Way B style vans and you are right - they are nice but unfortunately like hens teeth to find. Their new 2022 Wonder model is EXACTLY what I've been looking for (Transit chassis, no slides, beautiful interior and all the 'good stuff') but can't wait 2 years on delivery.

I loved my F350 PSD with the 6.7l diesel but traded it after the warranty expired as I am not confident in the longevity of the emissions systems. They actually make the same truck for export without the crazy DEF, DPF and EGR systems so you can buy a solid, dependable truck in Mexico but not here. Nuts. I should have kept my beautiful Super Duty and had a delete done on it.

Anyway, enjoy your next trip. I need to make some decision soon or be sucking hind tit.

[Thumper]

Yep, the Serenity is a sleek unit. As stated above, I never have quite figured out what a B+, etc. really is. LTV lists the Serenity as a Class C. I’ve got the full side slide with Murphy bed and love it. So far, I’ve never had a problem with parking it. If I can find a spot to back into, I can park in any normal parking lot. At any rate, you know what sort of camping you want to do and what suits YOU. That’s all that matters really. My brother’s Unity is pretty much the same size as mine (with my slide in), so we’re pretty much matched as far as size going down the road. But that all ends once I extend the slide. Then we have a living room with sofa, plus a full (u-shaped) dinette. I can sleep two in the overhead (we use it for storage for oversized stuff) and two more by converting the dinette to a bed. The (electric) Murphy bed folds down from the wall where the sofa is. We use the sofa for naps if the bed is up. The dinette seats have full footrests that fold out to make half-assed theater chairs to watch tv if wanted. The big advantage that sold us is a full, separate bathroom. All is behind a pocket door and has the sink/vanity, toilet, full length closet and full shower. The large kitchen counter is what sold Lynn. (Winnebago 24D model)

I belong to a Facebook group you may want to look at if you’re dialed in to the LTV. Leisure Travel Vans Enthusiasts RV For Sale. Ha! Yeah, that’s the name of the group! You may want to take a peek at it.