Just Being a Noticer

[BarryBobPosthole]

What has changed in America that has caused us to judge a person's character by their politics? Aren't politics just the method that we use to run our country? The process?

BKB

[Captain]

If you are referring to my comments on another thread about Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins, I actually toned it down a bit. :D
I'm sure they would have a like and similar opinion of me.
Take Care, Capain

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Not really but it made me think of it I'll admit. I don't know much about either of them's politics, nut I can pretty much assume to know what they are. But it doesn't make me hate either one of them. More like kind of how I look at Sally Struthers and her lame commercials that used to air.

BKB

[LJ3]

It's an innersting point there, noticer boy. It used to be you had to get to know someone in order to learn more about their political opinions.

I have to admit I judge people pretty harshly on that criteria and I should strive to do that far less.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I wasn't really saying it was right or wrong. But I do think its used as a rationalization sometimes.

And I'll admit I do it selectively, which kind of makes me feel uncomfortable for some reason.
BKB

[LJ3]

It sure doesn't seem very "right" when I consider how I do that.

Ima see what I can do about paying more attention to that. Notice it more, if you will :)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Wel, in a way, a person who is involved in politics is putting themselves out there to be judged by them. So Captain's example of two people who have made their politics part of their image are fair game. I'm not sure though how a person votes speaks to their character.
Its kind of an interesting question.

BKB

[Captain]

Sorta like Jane Fonda???
That's stunt she pulled follows her to this day...
Take Care, Captain

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Yep! Exactly.

Did you ever get that that dirty birdto come in to you this morning?
BKB

[Captain]

Nope I had to leave him. He stayed in his strut zone from 8 to 10:30 when I literally crawled out so he would not see me. I was suppose to meet Dad and the guy with the trencher at 10 to put in 500 feet of waterline.
Dad is 79 years old and don't wait well when there is work to do.... As 10 o'clock came and passed and I stayed there looking at that bird, all I could hear in my mind was him saying "boy we got work to do"
So I had to leave him.
But I know the exact spot this bird likes to strut and show off. And you can bet I'll be setting up 50 yards closer in the next day or so.
Take Care, Captain

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Niner]

I have to admit that when I see a car with an Obama sticker on it, I mentally label them a bit low on the IQ scale.

Also....and this has proven out time and time again over the years.....99+ percent of the folks (that I have come in contact with) that vote democrat, are pro gun control, and pro "big government". MAYBE that's different in other parts of the country....but it rings true down here.

[Buckrub]

Not sure it's fair to put the conservative minded person in the bucket of those that want to divide us. Never even imagined a leader that had an actual goal to divide us like this one does, into the Haves vs. The Have Nots (neither description is accurate). And his minions are no different, at least not to me.

I hear Crispian St. Peters every time I even think of this guy.....

Your question does make me wonder, though.........what are we supposed to judge folks on if not their spoken opinions, thoughts, and actions?

That's what I have noticed.

[Thumper]

Ain't that kinda-sorta like "profiling"?

[johnboy]

Crispian St. Peters - Pied Piper - what? You lost me there.

[HideHunter]

I have to admit that when I see a car with an Obama sticker on it, I mentally label them a bit low on the IQ scale.

Also....and this has proven out time and time again over the years.....99+ percent of the folks (that I have come in contact with) that vote democrat, are pro gun control, and pro "big government". MAYBE that's different in other parts of the country....but it rings true down here.

Interestingly enough (okay, maybe just to me ;) ) this has been on my mind a lot lately. I've become a bit of a "Union" hater. I actually was a card-carrying carpenter for a few years. My experience with the union there was not particularly good - but... Anyway, here in my part of the country a very *large* number of Democrats are every bit as conservative as I am... but they vote - their *jobs*. If we could get rid of the "union mentality" and people would vote their core beliefs - at least here in Iowa there would be no question what "color" the state would be..

I think it was Buckrub who stated, "There are more of them than there are of us". That's really not true here.. but that's the way they vote.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There was a time when people kept their politics to themselves. Ask someone how they voted and you'd likely get a response of 'None of your damned business'. Now we wear our politics like a badge and we label people accordingly. We also talk about it incessantly. Its three fourths of the national news if not higher. I was just wondering how its become such an important 'decider' in how we view our neighbors and how we choose our friends.

BKB

[Buckrub]

I guess I'm not following why you wonder how that happened. You say that they wear it on their sleeve and talk about it incessantly. If your words and actions are always about X, I guess I judge you on X. Not sure why that would be odd.

And.........I still have the same question......if we don't judge folks on what they say and do, what is it that you want us to judge them on??? How are we supposed to judge our neighbors and friends if not by what they say and do?

[BarryBobPosthole]

The question isn't about whether we judge people by what they say or do. I understand that. The question is why we judge people more by what they say or do politically than what they say or do in their everyday lives. And by 'people' I don't mean people in the news. I mean neighbors, friends, people we meet, etc.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Well, I get it.............and don't disagree. But I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

IF what they "say and do in their everyday lives" is almost totally political, then what else can we judge them on??? I don't see the separation between the two that you do. I see folks talking about politics nonstop BECAUSE it affects them, it hurts them to see what is happening, and it's very, very important to them. So most discussions that I am around, is about what you call 'politics'. Actually, what you call 'politics' is to me, the important parts of life. It's now all about how we're going to see doctors and get treatment, or what country we're going to invade, or why we can't get shed of so many taxes, or what they saw some guy buy with an EBT card yesterday, or what some idiot in CO said about gun magazines, or those type of things..........things that WILL and DO impact their daily lives and their culture. And if they talk about that, naturally, then folks are going to judge who they are by that speech.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Right and that's kind of what I'm saying. Haven't we raised politics to an unnaturally high point of priority in the grand scheme of things?
BKB

[Thumper]

The question is why we judge people more by what they say or do politically than what they say or do in their everyday lives. BKB

Ha ha! Haven't I always asked that same question regarding religion? Why is it, I can go to church on Sunday and be a good person, then go to Heaven? But ... if I'm that SAME good person but don't particularly roll with the religion thing ... I'm going to Hell?

Isn't it the same thing, just different ... ummmmm, "politics"? ;)

[Buckrub]

Well, that's a different question.........(or maybe I'm dense).........but maybe so. However, I don't remember a time when "politics" encompassed so very much of what makes me "me". I remember politics as discussing the best way to fund some program, or how best to deal with a foreign issue, or whether to raise the minimum wage.

Now, it's a discussion of whether or not my core culture is going to be destroyed, or altered beyond recognition. And that's what I hear folks talking about incessantly. And I hear it as much as you do. I went to my buddy's deer camp this weekend. 20 people, and other than their problems of a bad neighbor, that's all that's talked about. It's all that's talked about at the coffee shop. You'd be amazed at how quiet I am in these discussions!! But I listen. And the people I know and am around are scared. They are mad. They are way more than those, I just don't know the words. So, that's what they talk about.

If you want that arena to be less discussed, I guess you're going to have to figure out how to get the topics that the politicians are raising to be way less invasive.

[Thumper]

Ya' know sumpin'? I don't hang around chat rooms ... except this one. And I have to say, the ONLY time I hear about this issue is here, on the news (mixed in with all the other news) and in the non-stop brochures the NRA sends me asking for money.

It's all where you hang out and whom you hang with. I cannot even tell you the last time I was out among others and the gun issue came up. In fact, I seldom hear anything about politics period .. or it's simply a short statement that doesn't escalate into a major discussion.

If you hang out with car nuts ... you talk about cars.

If you hang out with foodies ... you talk about recipes and shit.

If you hang out with a bunch of computer geeks ... you talk computers.

If you hang out around your church ... chances are there will be conversations about God and Jesus.

When you hang out with guys at a shooting range or at deer camp or in gun related "chat rooms" ... chances are the subjects are going to lean toward ... well, more than who has the stinkiest farts.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Does that mean I just need to get out more?
BKB

[Thumper]

Yes sir. (to broaden your "friend base") ;)

[Buckrub]

Well, I spend a little time on other chat rooms. But mostly I hang out at coffee shops, lunch, deer camps, meetings, etc......

I'm not trying to bolster my position, honest.......but who I hang out with are Bankers, Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Real Estate guys, Retired salesmen, Insurance Reps, Teachers, Farmers (some big time farmers, some small).......and every single one of them, without any exception whatsoever, is scared literally to death.

Quite frankly this place is the most "liberal" of all the sources/places/friends that I have, I guess. Many of you are (I believe) of the opinion that the world will continue to turn as it always has, and all will be ok, and there's nothing to worry about much. But that's not what my circle of friends say. Some of them are radical about it. Some are very calm about it. But 100% of them believe that the corner has been turned and that serious bad things are imminent.

Whether they are right or wrong, to me, is immaterial. It is what they believe, and for the most part they are highly educated, highly intelligent, well read, individuals. I just don't think that 100% of 'em are that wrong. I know they don't think so. And thus, that's what they talk about.

Seems pretty normal to me. Politics dominate the conversation because politics dominate every conversation...........everywhere. At least in my small world, it does.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Seriously though, I don't think people necessarily pick their friends or judge their acquaintances by what religion they are. With the notable exception of anyone that's of muslim faith probably. But we don't see many burkas in Oklahoma. My niece is staying with us for 10 weeks or so and we've been having a lot of good discussions on 'what's what' and we were talking about this topic I raised here the other day. We came to the conclusion that our nation's future is determined more on what's going on in our living rooms than what is going on in Washington. Trying to fix the government, in other words, is fixing the symptom and not fixing the problem. And that led me to the question of how much and why people are so focused on politics instead of being more focused on our basic values. And not religious values, per se, but just the rules we govern our lives by and the things we have decided are important. That's what drove this whole question anyway.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Agree very much.

And in my opinion, that's the reason that the topics are all about politics so much. It's because everyone I know sees the current political environment as having a major impact and change on their core culture. When you say that you see the discussions of politics "instead" of those things focusing on our core values, that's where I (and most everyone I know) disagrees. I/we see that politics is working hard to drastically change our core values, and I/we are upset about it........and every news item heightens it, it seems..........so I/we talk about it.

Seems normal to me.

[Thumper]

I have to admit ... with 90% of the people I hang out with, politics is mentioned from time to time, but it never turns into a major discussion and we move on to more interesting topics. EVERYONE agrees that when political discussions enter the picture ... all of a sudden, the little get-together isn't much fun anymore. Also, when the subject does stray to politics, the wimmin folk just roll their eyes and ask if we don't have something better to talk about. ;)

Personally, I HATE politics and don't enjoy political discussions at all. I have a buddy who's an accountant for a major accounting firm. When he starts talking about his job (especially around tax time) we all look for something to throw at him to bring him "out of it". I look at political discussions in the same light.

[quercus alba]

I think the gap between the liberal and conservative thinking has gotten bigger is the main problem. Matthew 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? If you spout off like a moron then what am I supposed to think? That you're Einstein?

it's gonna get worse before it get's better. The inmates are running the asylum

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, Vince, therein lies the problem, or at least the issue I was asking about. Old Timothycan be applied in many ways. He has always been one of my favorites, especially that verse. Its pretty true. You obviously think a person's political affiliation is important. That was the whole purpose of the question. To ask why and to see what others thought about it.
BKB

[quercus alba]

char·ac·ter
[kar-ik-ter]
1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.
2.one such feature or trait; characteristic.
3.moral or ethical quality:
4.qualities of honesty, courage, or the like; integrity

using this definition, ones political views would have to be considered since politics encompasses all these things. As a christian, definition #3 &4 weigh heavily in my interpretation of character. The absence of any of these traits would be considered a character flaw in my opinion of a man. To be totally devoid of any of these (as are many politicians) is an abomination. He who's political views agree with such a one is going to be painted with the same brush character wise.

That being said, one does not have to profess to be a christian to be a man of good character. I don't claim to have achieved sinless perfection, but I will not allow my honesty or integrity to be questioned. It's who I am. I certainty strive to be a man of character although not always successfully.

So yes, when you adopt a political stance that I feel is wrong or destructive to my country or ethics, I will definitely judge your character based on your politics.

Matthew 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them

I can't answer why for the whole country, probably because politics has bled over into every aspect of our lives. They say you can't legislate morality but they're sure trying to legislate against it.

[Buckrub]

Other than monetary matters, morality is the only thing that IS legislated....................