Nit-Picking Game Wardens???.....

[Big Muddy]

This was posted on another hunting site....I dang sure had never thought about this....going to check out ALL my shotguns, now

What do ya'll think???




"""This teal season i was stopped by two game wardens. They came and asked to see our birds asked how many we killed and went through there normal steps with checking us out. So they asked for our guns to make sure they only held 1 + 2 in the tube. When the GW first checked my gun he used my ammo 3" shells... Gave it back said was good to go and thanks. I said no worries. Then his partner asked the GW that checked my gun if he checked it with 2 3/4" shells. he said no and then asked to see my gun again. I handed him it again because in my mind i knew my gun wouldn't hold 3 shells in the tube. the GW put 2 2 3/4 shells in my gun and then slammed the 3 one in and told him we had issues. i answered why is that? he says your gun holds 1 + 3 and it cant. Quick recap my gun was good to go with the ammo i was using and there was no 2 3/4" shells on the boat... bottom line i got my ducks taken and a ticket.. I'm still waiting to see how much the ticket is going to be. With all this being said the GW seemed to be upset with right of the bat when he asked for my ID and i handed him my military ID due to not having my drivers license on me because i didn't drive that day. I volunteer my time with the MS marine patrol and I'm active duty military with the Coast Guard. I never would hunt with an gun that was not ready to hunt with. I just have lost all trust with GW's now because of this. I WAS trying to get hired as a GW when I get out of the CG but I'm not sure i could work with such booty holes that couldn't give a warning. I would understand if my gun didn't have a plug but my gun did. Either way why I am writing this and letting people know is double check all your stuff. Also the GW said to always check your gun with the smallest ammo your gun will hold even if your not using that ammo to hunt with. """

[Thumper]

Sumpin' sounds hokey there. I doubt it would fly if he contests it.

[Big Muddy]

Yep, Thump....this opens up a whole new set of duck and dove shotgun questions....lots of variables, concerning this issue.

Such as, I know for a fact that an Extrema I that comes from the factory, will hold three 2 3/4 inch shells in the magazine tube.

Here's another glitch....I remembered seeing these little 12 gauge shells on Midsouth USA website....what if the game warden carries around a handful of these little shells???....technically, he could give a ticket to every single duck and dove hunter that he checks.



1829
Aguila Minishell Ammunition 12 Gauge 1-3/4" 5/8 oz #7-1/2 Shot Box of 20

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, the plug was cut to the wrong length is all I can say. Any time you cut a plug for a gun that shoots 3" shells, you have to cut it so it won't allow four 2 3/4 in shells as well. And that ain't that hard to do. That's why most plugs are 'cut to length' type deals. I think he deserved the ticket. Although I also think most game wardens are chickenshit.
BKB

[Thumper]

I deer hunted with a Rem. 870. We were limited to 3 shells (slugs). The factory plug did the trick, but I had a choice ... I could hunt with three 2 3/4" shells or I could hunt with two 3" shells as only two 3" shells would fit ... one in the chamber and one in the magazine.

What I usually did was to run a 3" in my chamber and two 2 3/4" in the magazine ... but the last two were strictly "insurance" as my first shot was usually the kill shot. :D

[Big Muddy]

Phole, I really don't think that's the main issue here, or the point the guy is trying to make....he, nor his hunting companions, had ANY 2 3/4 inch shells with them....only 3 inch shells....the warden pulled the 2 3/4 inch shells from his own pocket.

That's like the warden saying, "I'm going to give you a ticket because your gun will HOLD lead shot shells, even though you don't have any lead shells with you."

[Thumper]

"I'm going to give you a ticket because your gun will HOLD lead shot shells, even though you don't have any lead shells with you."

Hmmmm, good point.

Wonder if I can get a speeding ticket while doing the speed limit because my truck is capable of going 120 mph?

If you're fishing legally, can you get a ticket for fishing with illegal bait just because your snap-swivel is capable of holding it?

Sumpin' tells me the list is endless. ;)

[Big Muddy]

Hmmmm, good point.

Wonder if I can get a speeding ticket while doing the speed limit because my truck is capable of going 120 mph?

If you're fishing legally, can you get a ticket for fishing with illegal bait just because your snap-swivel is capable of holding it?


Exactly, Thump....it's appears that the GW's were trying to set up some hunters....otherwise, why would they be carrying around a pocketful of
2 3/4 inch shells???

[BarryBobPosthole]

I looked at the Oklahoma regs and all it say is you can't hunt with a gun capable of holding more than three shells. It says nothing about what size you're hunting with, only that your gun can't be capable of holding more than three.

I'd probably say the game warden was chicken shit if I'd gotten the ticket, but I'd have to admit he probably was technically within the law to write it.

what is it you'd use those real short shells for? watermelon thieves? Cats maybe? I've never seen those. Can't see how they'd work in a pump gun or an automatic though.

BKB

[Thumper]

why would they be carrying around a pocketful of 2 3/4 inch shells???

Ummm, my guess would be to check magazine capacities. (??) ;)

[Thumper]

what is it you'd use those real short shells for? watermelon thieves? Cats maybe? I've never seen those. Can't see how they'd work in a pump gun or an automatic though.

I was wondering the same thing Postie. I've never seen them either. The first thing that came to my mind was "snake shot". But to carry around a single-shot scatter-gun just for snakes seems kind'a goofy.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'd sure like to have a single shot sawed off 410 for a snake gun. Maybe one of those old contenders.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

Sorta reminds me of that old fishing joke....lady gets a ticket for fishing with too many poles.

GW says, too many poles in boat....even though she's using only one pole, the others are in her boat, and are "equipment" that she COULD use.

She gets on cellphone, and calls 911, and reports she's being raped by the GW.

GW screams, "what the hell are you doing???"

She says, "Well, you got the "equipment" to rape me."

[HideHunter]

I've wondered - where do the "new" 3 1/2" shells fit into this? Can you make it "legal" with 2 3/4 and still get two 3 1/2s in it?

And as far as the "nit-picking" stuff. I think wardens who actually get out of their trucks and interact with hunters are more likely to explain a situation and say, " this needs to be remedied". The ones who ride around in their trucks all day and hope a hunter crosses the road in front of them are going to write you for any possibility.

The worst I've ever seen personally is I had an old friend (dead now) who was coon hunting. He had his quad in the back of his truck with his gun (unloaded) strapped to the handlebars. Warden stops him on the road. Ask where his gun was - checked it and found the zipper was broken and it lacked about 2" of zipping completely up. Warden wrote him for having an improperly cased gun. He showed it to me.. Yes - it was broken but you still couldn't have removed the gun from the case without unzipping it. I knew this old gentleman (approx. 70) and he wouldn't have smarted off or created any "circumstances").

In either of the two cases here - "education" should have been the priority.. with a warning and - "needs to be remedied".. period.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Now you're getting into higher math. I'd have to take off my shoes to cypher that one.

BKB

[Thumper]

We were on a combination bear hunt/walleye fishing trip in Northern Ontario one year. There were 4-5 of us in the cabin (sleeps 6) and waaay out in the middle of nowhere. We were 26 miles (by water) from the nearest boat ramp which was also the closest place for supplies (a small "bait shop").

Only two of us were bear hunting, but we all fished. We'd all fish in the early am, then my buddy and I would check baits while the others continued to fish, then we'd bear hunt in the evenings. We built a live tank out of chicken wire and basically lived off the fish we caught. Whenever we'd come back to the cabin, we'd dump our catch in the tank, then when it was time to eat, we'd grab a net, scoop out what we wanted to cook, then clean 'em and cook 'em.

One morning a Canuck Game Warden landed his float plane right in front of the cabin and paid us a little visit. We gave him a cup of coffee and b/s'ed a bit. Then, when he was ready to leave, he checked all our licenses and counted the filets we had next to the stove (we were just getting ready to fry them up when he came in). We were legal. Then, on his way back to the plane, he spotted the tank, counted the fish (legal count) ... but then he added those to the filets we were getting ready to eat ... of course we were over limit. He came back to the cabin and said, "we seem to have a bit of a problem" and continued with a lecture on limits, fines, etc.

BUT ... then he said, "Before I ask whose fish these are, I want to explain one thing ... if they belong to all of you, I have to write a $150 ticket for each one of you ... but if they only belong to one of you, I only have to write one ticket!" On one hand, he could have easily let us slide as once we had breakfast, we'd be under limit ... but numbers are numbers I suppose. Anyway, my buddy immediately spoke up and said all those fish were his.

Here's the Canuckian GW handing my bud the ticket.

1831

[BarryBobPosthole]

We do the same thing on our annual trip to Canada and it is illegal. (but we still do it) Its illegal here too. I mean we combine our limit of keepers and count it as a whole rather than individuals. That way everyone takes home a limit.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

The guy just posted a bit more info., and this will prolly answer a lot of questions.

He is from south MS, and was hunting in LA.

LA wardens loathe south MS hunters....and, I'm sure vice-versa holds true, as well.

[Big Skyz]

I pretty much loathe game wardens in general, nuff said.

[DeputyDog]

Here's my take on this.....In my job, if I wanted to, I could write people speeding tickets for going 1 MPH over the speed limit. Would it be chickenshit, in my opinion, yes, would it be legal, yes. If your defense is that your speedometer is off by that much, it's not my problem that your vehicle's equipment isn't functioning properly, I know that my radar unit is and can show the certifications to prove it. If I really wanted to, I could probably get probable cause to stop any car moving down that road that I wanted to and write the driver a ticket for something.

The point of this I guess is, the GW didn't do anything wrong but strictly enforce the law as it's written. Do any of you think that this same hunter would have posted anything if this GW had told him, "Hey, I could write you a ticket since your gun holds more 2 3/4 shells than the law allows even though you don't have any in possession. Keep this in mind for the next time."?

I'm sure all of you have worked with people that see everything in black and white and do their jobs accordingly. The bad thing with law enforcement is that if a person had one bad encounter with a cop, whom may have just been served divorce papers that day and is in a really pissy mood, from that moment on, every cop of any kind is an asshole and they won't be shy about telling everyone they know. If they meet a cop having a good day and he lets them off when he probably shouldn't have, they feel they pulled one over on the cop, and then no one hears about it.

What that GW did didn't do much for PR for him or his department, but he did follow the law.

[Thumper]

In my personal experience ... I've known a lot of decent, understanding cops (and a few bad ones). When it comes to Game Wardens ... most (not all) have been jerk-off pricks.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I have no idea why, but that's my experience too, Jim.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

DeputyDog, I get what you are saying, but that doesn't at all change what I think of most GW's. Quite a few of my closest hunting friends are in law enforcement. Either city cops or on the sherriff's department. I generally get along with law enforment officers, but GW's are a whole different animal. Granted there are a few good one's I've come across, but most I want absolutely nothing to do with. It's almost as if on their job description there is a box they have to check that says, "Public Azzhole #1".

[Chicken Dinner]

I've had good and bad experiences with Game Wardens and LEO's in general. In most instances, if I was trying to follow the law they have exercised their discretion appropriately and I would sing their praises loudly. If they have a hard on for you, they can find something wrong and they will. In the original instance, it seems a warning and a little education would have been warranted. Most of the LEO's I've known personally have been great people who I would not have wanted to cross professionally, but would love to have my back when push came to shove. I used to work in a bar in college that could fit 2,000 drunks for Friday happy hour and we would supplement the bouncer's with uniformed off-duty Deputy Sherriff's. Great guys. But, when that switch got flipped, you better just get out fo the way.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't consider game wardens LEOs. they're more like Outdoor Bouncers.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

Outdoor Bouncer's...I like that term. Might have to use that. :D

[Big Muddy]

Last question....assuming this is a federal and state law, since it has to do with duck/dove hunting, how many of you actually knew about this and actually check your shotguns to make sure you are legal, while hunting???
Call me a dumbazz, but this never even crossed my mind!!!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't use three inch shells for duck hunting and I've only been goose hunting twice in my life and used 2 3/4 " shells then, so its never been an issue with me. I prolly need to check it though.

BKB

[Thumper]

I think one of the problems with Game Wardens is the power they have ... it sometimes goes to their heads I think. Think about it ... they actually have more authority than the police or State Troopers. Number one, they can enforce the same laws as police, including traffic laws, but where a cop would need a search warrant ... a Game Officer can do almost ANYTHING he wants WITHOUT a warrant.

[Arty]

I've only had one experience with a GW. Was about a month ago. I rented a jon boat on lake moomaw for me and the kiddos to catch a few bream.
Two GW's come roaring up, bout tipped us over in the wake.
They checked my license, looked for life jackets and throwable.
When he asked for registration I said "I have this" (the rental agreement and a copy of the registration was attached to it)

I thought he'd look at it and just hand it back. Buuuttt he goes into a 20 question quiz on where I rented it, when, for how long, when it had to be back, etc etc.
What I wanted to say was "there's only one place on this lake to rent a john boat and it's right over there (you could see the marina from where we were anchored up), and also everything you are asking is right there on the damn rental agreement that you are holding. .... But I didn't ;)

My 9 year old loves cops and always wants to talk to them. So this whole time my son is trying to make conversation with them, because they're "cool" and carry guns, etc.
They were having none of that. They completely ignored him.

When they were happy they sped off, once again rocking a very small jon boat.


I wasn't impressed with them

And that's all I have to say about that.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That's the arrogance you will find in a great majority of them, Artie.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

Arty that is by in large the type of experience I have when dealing with GW's and one of many reasons I dislike them. I've only ever had one ticket in my life, but have been checked countless times. I always get the vibe that they think I'm guilty, bugs the heck out of me. I'm generally a pretty nice guy, but around GW's, I'm downright cold to them. I don't want to talk to them and they can't leave fast enough.

[Arty]

Well the worst thing is that it turned both my boys off to them.
They both commented on their own that they didn't seem very nice.
That'll probably (unfortunately) stick with them their whole lives

[BarryBobPosthole]

that's exactly right, Artie.

BKB

[Thumper]

Interesting subject ... and VERY interesting that so many here seem to have the same opinion. All these years I thought it was just me.

Judging from this small slice of outdoors types ... I'd say the fish cop industry may be overdue for a bit of an image make-over.

[HideHunter]

We have a brand-new one (possibly his first job). First time I met him I had found an eagle that was sick or injured. Showed up at my place (New Year's morning) and I thought he was a bit "cool" (and not in the "good" way). On the other hand, I'm a bit gregarious and I didn't have a hangover. ;) Second time - he thought I was road-hunting deer. I saw him in the rearview mirrors pull in a drive and just sit. After I got out of the truck, crossed the ditch and fence he drove by slowly but didn't stop. Couple hours later I was standing in the ditch talking to an adjacent landowner (both wearing orange). He blasted up, slammed on the brakes (you could just tell he thought he "had" us ;) ) "You guys hunting?" (You can't be in the ROW with slugs.) "Nope - not at the moment." He checked our guns, they were unloaded - and our licenses. Again *very* business-like (and, I thought, a bit disappointed :) ).. So a couple months later I wanted to keep some coon hides and had to call him for a permit.. Good heavens it was like old home week.. could hardly get rid of him. I think he'll be alright with a bit of "seasoning".


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3709/10076026973_9d7f184e92_z.jpg

[quercus alba]

For many years I hunted in a WMA that had gated roads with checkpoints for all traffic. They weighed, measured, and gutted all the deer killed checking for parasites. Most of the biologist were pretty cool but without exception, all the GW's were major pricks. It shows not just in the wardens in the field but in the regulations that are just one step above entrapment.

For instance: This is not in the manual, you have to go deep into their website to find it.

If the wind or any natural occurrence causes any standing grain to fall, then you can hunt it for ducks/geese. If you tramp it down or use any mechanical devise to knock it over then it's baiting.

If you're turkey hunting on your own property and the neighboring landowner has his property baited within, (not exactly sure of the distance but I think it's 1/2 mile) of where you're hunting, then you're guilty of hunting over a baited area

there are a hundred other ridiculous laws that are nearly impossible to keep up with and change every year.

[HideHunter]

Worse than you think white oak.. There is *no* set distance on "baiting" and it is "up to the officer's discretion".. Talk about potential problems..

[LJ3]

My last experience was a good one. He was polite and friendly. Definitely an exception to every other encounter I've had in my life.

I get stopped on the river at least once a year. They can be dicks at times but they're trying to keep a lot of idiots from killing themselves. Within the first 60 seconds it is EASY for them to know if they're dealing with a responsible outdoorsman or not but the treatment doesn't change. That's what tweaks me.

[Bwana]

Much like what the rest of you have experienced reflect what I have seen to, for instance:
1) Was once out with the family doing a bit of fishing on a reservoir near my hometown and since it was getting close to sundown we had wrapped things up and proceeded to tool along the shoreline looking at the lakeside homes while making out way back to the dock. It was somewhere between 15-30 minutes before sundown at the time. All of a sudden my lab starts growling, something I have heard her do less then a handful of times in the nearly 8 years we've had her, I turn around and here is a boat with two guys dressed in dark clothing coming up on us. I popped the boat into neutral and turned around to see what the hell was up as their demeanor had me, and the rest of my family to include the dog, on edge. As the got closer I saw they were GW's. Not sure if they were pissed that they had to be out patrolling rather then lighting firecrackers or what, but they were in a pissy mood. When I asked if I could help them one of them asked where my boat lights were. Told him in the gunwale why? He proceeded to tell me that it was illegal to not have the lights on after dark so I told him I was aware of that and that as near as I could tell it wouldn't be dark for a while yet. That didn't make him happy so then I got to show him my fishing license and he kindly checked out my live well just to make sure it was operating properly. ;) Though I wanted to I didn't say anything bad about the situation, but the kids promptly noted what "buttheads" the two GW's were all on their own.

2) A couple of summers ago one of the old bridges across the Missouri River here in town was removed and subsequently replaced. A effort was made to keep a small portion of the river open so boating traffic could be maintained during the construction of the new bridge but a no-wake zone was enacted in the area immediately adjacent to the bridge. Now our family tends to avoid the in-town boating area just because of all the congestion and knotheads you tend to find there and instead choose to recreate further from town. Anyway after a day of fun on the sandbars north of town we decided to just take a drive through town to see the chaos. As we are tooling we come upon the no-wake area. No big deal because the boat is only just in gear plus we are behind two other boats doing the same thing so we are hardly more then drifting with the current. We just get past the bridge when my daughter asks why does that boat have flashing lights on it? I took a look and noticed that they seemed to be focused in my direction and given I was practically drifting and following two other boats I looked behind me to see what had happened. When I turned around it was obvious I was the focus of their attention so I headed in their direction. I was promptly told to put my boat in neutral which I did. The lady GW then tried to pull alongside my boat but was having trouble so I asked if I should just pull up to them? Apparently that was not the right thing to say. Long story short they issued me a ticket for making a wake in a no-wake zone. As before these folks were very abrupt and not very friendly at all.

I guess what I am really trying to say is that in nearly all of my encounters with GW's I get the feeling they think I MUST be guilty of something and by gosh they are going to find out what that is. Don't get me wrong, I can understand them being more then a bit nervous especially when dealing with hunters who they know are armed but wow, these folks all seem to have lost their sense of humor somewhere along the way.

[Big Muddy]

Bwana, are you crazy???!!!!....NEVER ask a woman, if she needs help driving!!! ;)

[Big Skyz]

Bwana sounds like all those guys proudly checked the box I described earlier in regards to their job description. :D

[HideHunter]

Barry.. I'm a little surprised with your experiences. A hunerd years ago I made a trip to OK City to hunt quail. We ended up hunting with 3 Game Rangers on three separate days. One even came along the second day. These were all young fellas and when we'd stop at a restaurant they all seemed to have good interaction with the locals. They were even telling about putting on a chili supper for area sportsmen. They had just gotten a robot deer in their area and they were having a ball with it. I still have a blaze Oklahoma State Game Rangers hat around here somewhere. Anyway, thought maybe the "western' boys were a bit better to deal with.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There's good ones and bad ones, like somebody said. I grew up in the southeastern part of the state (make that the Redneck part) and our wardens there had many miles of area to cover and poaching when I was growing up was a family tradition in many families. I'm not justifying it, it's just the way it was in the 60's and 70's. My family was one of them that was that way. Many of my cousins of my generation are still that way. The Clubb family, who had two generations of game wardens, were well known to me and my hunting buddies and we were to them. the elder Clubb, Claudie was his name, owned the world record for a flathead catfish for many years and may still own it. It was well known in the county by just about everyone that Claudie caught that fish in a gill net and claimed it was caught on a rod and reel. It was also well known that Claudie gill netted illegally on that lake just about his whole life. Some story to be well known for if you're a warden. One of my cousin and I's favorite deer hunting tactics was to drive to the top of Walker Mountain on the Ark/Okla border, cut the engine and coast down the mountain road with the engine off and the Razorback game on the radio. Claudie like to stalk us and would come charging out from some logging side road with lights flashing and we'd both just act like nothing was up and most times he'd pretend he didn't see those 30.06 bullets roll out of the floorboard when we'd get out of the truck. It was cat and mouse and at the time we were both too stupid and foolish to think it was anything but fun. Claudie and one of his partners barricaded my car front and back while I was jump shooting ducks on a game preserve one time. I had to wait hidden in the woods until way after dark when they finally gave up and left. I was 16. So that's the adversarial relationship I grew up around with wardens and probably is a big part of the reason I think about them the way I do. I didn't repsect those hypocrites then and I don't respect them now. I'll respect the uniform and say yessir and no sir when I encounter them, but I'll spit when I'm done shaking hands and that's just because I ain't met a good one yet.

BKB

[Bwana]

Had one GW get snotty with me once because I was not wearing the required orange hat the state requires when deer hunting. My wife and I had just gotten back to the vehicle from a long walk through a fair amount of snow & I was pretty lathered up so I took my hat off in an effort to cool down. We grabbed a pop and a sandwich in an attempt to refuel a bit. While eating our snack I noticed some gents pushing some cover nearby. I told the missus to get out with her gun in case a doe ran our way. Sure enough one did but she missed.

She had no more then got done shooting when up pulled Mr. GW. He gets out of his vehicle and immediately puffs up his chest asking me why I was hunting without a hat and if I knew he could write me up for it? I told I was aware of the law but given I had a sandwich in one hand and a pop in the other and given the fact my gun was still sitting in the pickup 30 yards away that I did not feel I was hunting at that time so I thought I would be alright. He was about to lay into me when a friend of the family pulled up and asked me how our hunt was going. The GW knew our friend and it was obvious the friend knew me...it was just like someone flipped a switch. The GW went from Mr. High and Mighty to Gee, aren't you guys some swell folks. What an ass.

[Arty]

Posthole, the poaching tradition runs deep in many areas apparently.
That was a lonnng standing "tradition" where I grew up.
Mainly the day before season started, anyone who camped out during the 10 day season (like we did) arrived a day early, shot a couple of young does, and that was breakfast, lunch , and dinner for the whole group.

Oh - there's that... And then there's sneaking on to Fort Knox property to kill a Monster. Aaaaaand I mean MONSTER buck.

But I know very little if anything about that.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I remember Cliffie talking about a monster buck one time on some sort of federal property. Was that Fort Knox?

BKB

[Arty]

I don't know a Cliffie. I know a guy that goes by arty though! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Cliffie was an original Goodhunter from Pennsylvania. We haven't heard from him in years. Not sure why.

BKB

[Arty]

Cliff Claven, no? I remember him.

[Chicken Dinner]

I keep up with Cliff a little through work. He's got a cool gig blogging for Cool Green Science. I think he's just too Big Time for us smalls.

[Niner]

I have not had many interactions with the GWs in Georgia. The ones I have encountered have been ok folks. Wife and I were on a big lake many years ago and got checked by them. We got a ticket for no fire extinguisher ...which I honestly didn't know was a requirement.

Got checked several different times while on the river trout fishing. Always very professional.

Had one encounter while deer hunting. I was sitting on the side of the logging road watching the small valley below. GW truck pulls up, checks my licence and then drives down the road to our camp to check everyone else when they came out of the woods. I'd walked on back to camp and was there.... Very professional with everyone.

These encounters were all well over 10 years ago. I have been fortunate enough not to run into them for many years now. Maybe because I hunt and fish on private property....or maybe not.