Okay - make me understand..

[HideHunter]

Barry - you'll probably have to carry the load on one side but - that's okay.. without getting all "mushy" here :biggrin-new: - I very much respect your viewpoint on most any subject. Same goes for everyone here..

Unfortunately when we talk "politics" I simply have a terrible time really understanding the "other" side..

Okay - let's take the "Big Four"...

Gun Control.. My wife's uncle and I talk about this one all the time.. Problem here is when you say "gun" I think about my grandpa's squirrel rifle. He (city born and bred) thinks about the gangs on the street corner with UZIs. This is a deal-breaker for me - mostly based on the "slippery-slope syndrome".

Pro-Life/Choice.. This one I slip out of my "conservative" views. I am decidedly Pro-Choice. I do not think abortion should be used as a "regular" form of birth control but - in cases of rape or incest.. I simply can't fathom not giving the victim a choice. I could be swayed on some "regulation" here - late term.. etc.

Unions.. If we were talking religion here.. I'd join Thump as an "agnostic". I don't have real strong feelings one way or the other. I was a card-carrying carpenter for a few years and other than the wages I made, the union did me 0 good. Never once got a job out of the "hall" and in fact in the end - they screwed me over. I know any number of people who are every bit as conservative as me but are staunch Democrats because they "vote their jobs".

Entitlements.. (here I'm talking mostly welfare in its many forms) Again, my liberal uncle in law (great guy by the way - just misguided ;) ) thinks I have no compassion. He "thinks" a leg-up for the poor homeless who are that way though no fault of their own. I "think" of the two families who lived a few miles from me who are now on their fifth generation of welfare. Not a damn thing wrong with any of them except they've concluded working the system is better than working the shovel. If they'd cut out (or cut back on) the booze, cigarettes and pot - they'd be living better than I do. I'm against - it pretty much once you get by widows and orphans.

The whole "liberal" thing just escapes me. I honestly see their views as. "Send me all your money and I'll take care of you." My theory is, of course, I believe I'll keep my money and take care of my own damned self."

So - both sides - is there a "deal-breaker" for you or do just mostly find your thinking more in line with one party or the other?

I will say - it's been a long time since I voted for the man - rather than (imho) the lesser of two evils.

[BarryBobPosthole]

First off, you can't take the to and fro between me and the Captain as the way either of us really feels about stuff. Well, me at least. He's just a hard headed Tar Heel. But a large part of that is just proving to ourselves and each other that although we might have vastly different ideas about stuff, neither of us considers the other to be immoral or less of an American or even less smart than the other. To me politics is like how we go about running our daily business. I don't rely on my politics to decide whether I'm going to lie cheat or steal and neither does Larke, in other words. So it ain't really all that important to either of us when deciding on the measure of a man so to speak.

But since you asked, here's where I come down on the stuff you listed.

Gun Control.. My wife's uncle and I talk about this one all the time.. Problem here is when you say "gun" I think about my grandpa's squirrel rifle. He (city born and bred) thinks about the gangs on the street corner with UZIs. This is a deal-breaker for me - mostly based on the "slippery-slope syndrome".
I think we have plenty of gun control laws already. I just don't think we do a very good job of enforcing them. And I'm tired, just like everyone else, of it being an issue every time some crazy bastard kills a bunch of people. Crazy bastards are crazy bastards regardless of what our gun laws are. Crazy bastard control is what we really need, not more gun control.

Pro-Life/Choice.. This one I slip out of my "conservative" views. I am decidedly Pro-Choice. I do not think abortion should be used as a "regular" form of birth control but - in cases of rape or incest.. I simply can't fathom not giving the victim a choice. I could be swayed on some "regulation" here - late term.. etc.

We agree 100% here.

Unions.. If we were talking religion here.. I'd join Thump as an "agnostic". I don't have real strong feelings one way or the other. I was a card-carrying carpenter for a few years and other than the wages I made, the union did me 0 good. Never once got a job out of the "hall" and in fact in the end - they screwed me over. I know any number of people who are every bit as conservative as me but are staunch Democrats because they "vote their jobs".

I've never worked in a union shop. My company does have one, but I don't work around it. That said, I think both union and management routinely makes mistakes that justifies both's opinions of why they think like they do. How's that for wishy washy?

Entitlements.. (here I'm talking mostly welfare in its many forms) Again, my liberal uncle in law (great guy by the way - just misguided ) thinks I have no compassion. He "thinks" a leg-up for the poor homeless who are that way though no fault of their own. I "think" of the two families who lived a few miles from me who are now on their fifth generation of welfare. Not a damn thing wrong with any of them except they've concluded working the system is better than working the shovel. If they'd cut out (or cut back on) the booze, cigarettes and pot - they'd be living better than I do. I'm against - it pretty much once you get by widows and orphans.

It ain't for me to decide what people need to cut back on or whether they deserve welfare or pay for their insurance for that matter. What I do think I know is that we've got bigger fish to fry than who has a cell phone or not. Like this crazy way we're trying to do education. If we spent half of what we spend on welfare on education, I think we'd wipe out the welfare rolls in a couple of generations. But I don't think that's gonna happen.

The whole "liberal" thing just escapes me. I honestly see their views as. "Send me all your money and I'll take care of you." My theory is, of course, I believe I'll keep my money and take care of my own damned self."

So - both sides - is there a "deal-breaker" for you or do just mostly find your thinking more in line with one party or the other?

I mainly vote the party, not the man. And the party platforms of the democrats have aligned more with what I believe our politics should be than the republicans the last 30 years or so. Once in a while, the other side appeals to me until they start listening to the ultras and then all bets are off for me. My own state is a great example. I live in the reddest state in the union. and all the legislature has done is pass laws that tells ME how I should live my life. That ain't conservatism in my book. I'd rather give my money to the democrats than my soul to the republicans is how I'd put it. that said, politics really isn't that important to me any more. Its just an excuse to argue with Captain and make Bucky turn blue in the face.

I will say - it's been a long time since I voted for the man - rather than (imho) the lesser of two evils.

[Thumper]

Dang Hidey-Hunter .. I think I've found my long-lost twin!

Seriously, my views pretty much mirror yours persactly.

[Captain]

Barry and I are friends and go at this kinda crap all the time about different issues to include politics, fishing lures, etc. I give him hell and I expect it right back.
We see things differently and while I have no hope on ever swaying his opinion, I do respect it and his right to believe it. I enjoy his company and hope to do much more fishing or hunting with him in the future. I'm just hoping he gets a new tune to the tired old WMD song... :-)

I'm totally with you on the Gun control and I'm concerned with what's going on in the UN about this issue as it applies to us here in America.

I think the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot drawing a hard line on the abortion issue.

Side note: I think the Republicans are also cutting their throats on the immigration issue. But you did not ask about that that so I'll save my reasons.

Unions were probably needed at the time they were started for the safety and health of workers. However all they do now is raise the cost of doing business and cost Americans money... They need to fade away.

Entitlements
Need to be slashed period. No one should be able to live as well under government assistance than anyone working. If they can lay around and mooch there is those that will do just that.

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[Niner]

Wish I had a real keyboard....

Gun Control:
We have way more laws than are needed. Need to enforce them.
This issue is a "litmus test" for politicians. 90+% of the time, if a politician passes this "test" they usually are aligned with my views on other issues.

Abortion: I don't think a politician has the right to tell a woman "what to do with her reproductive organs".
I too think the Republicans in DC need to remove this plank.
R
Unions: Never been in one or exposed to them. They seem to me to be an animal that was needed at one time, but that time has passed. Think it's strange that conservative union members must pay monies that are given to liberal politicians.

Entitlements:
There are WAY WAY WAY to many folks that "game the system".
At the risk of sounding callus or racist... it ticks me off to see "a person" pay for multiple carts of food and stuff with "food stamps", and then waddle outside and get into their brand new Lexus/Caddy/Mercedes.

[Bwana]

Funny how much we have in common, or is it?

[Chicken Dinner]

Boils down to personal freedom and the personal responsibility that comes along with it.

Guns: We have a God-given right to defend ourselves and our country.
Abortion: If you're against it, don't have one. Otherwise, shut up.
Unions: If you think you'll make more money and be safer at work by bargaining collectively. Good on you. But, nobody who feels differently should be required to join.
Entitlements: Tougher call. Clearly, there's a role for individuals, churches, charities and, yes, even the government in caring for the truly less fortunate. But, there's a difference between a hand up and a hand out.

[Penguin]

Unions: If you think you'll make more money and be safer at work by bargaining collectively. Good on you. But, nobody who feels differently should be required to join.

I would agree but for one thing: US law requires the unions negotiate full benefits for those in the workplace who refuse to join.

So you have the perverse situation where Right to Work becomes Right to be a Parasite. If you pass RtW then you have a situation where federal law prevents you from leaving non-union workers to their own devices when negotiating pay and benefits but state law prevents you from making them join a union.

Another example of how Republicans/conservatives encourage parasitic behavior... makes me glad I'm an independent. :)

Will

[Chicken Dinner]

Fine. Having to provide benefits to free riders is a stupid law. Change it.

[Penguin]

I agree.

[Captain]

Fine. Having to provide benefits to free riders is a stupid law. Change it.
That's what Republicans are trying to do.... The free riders of congress that don't have to go under the same health care as the rest of us.

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[LJ3]

We agree more than we disagree. I'm not hearing anyone say they think our government is doing a good job. That goes for both parties and for me has been the case for decades, at least.

My concerns are shifting from how things affect my life to what kind of country my Kids will live in. It saddens me.

It saddens me that modern communication (and the people who control it) consistently sends the message that we should understand the government exists to provide most everything we need, or that the government should get out of our lives in every way.

Neither perspective considers or acknowledges that there is a decent balance that can be struck and is most likely what's best for most people.

[Captain]

Outside of the military the federal government should be comprised of about 20 people....
The rest and all programs should go away and let states handle all affairs.

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[Chicken Dinner]

Come on Larke. I know you can be more simplistic than that. Please try harder next time.

[Captain]

Guess I could whittle that down to 8 or ten but hay Moochie has got to have all her assistants. What is it up to now 200 plus?

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[Captain]

Oppps I'm wrong she only had 43. However 16 have been laid off due to the government shutdown. Guess her twitter page won't be getting updated. Since that 100,000 dollar position is laid off.... So sad.
Let's see Nancy Reagan had 3 assistants.
http://americanoverlook.com/m/article.php?id=4749

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[Captain]

Oh and Moochie and OVomit have over a THOUSAND assistants laid off right now due to the shutdown. Now keep on mind that is just a 1000 nonessential assistants. No telling HOW many "essential" staff are still working What in the Holy name of anything that is right do they need a 1000 nonessential assistants on staff for?
Just a few years ago Nancy Reagan had 3 staff. Now Moochie has 43.
At this rate of increase the issue of health care issue is moot. All we got to do is keep electing Democrats and everybody is gonna be a assistant to the First Lady in about 20 years and have coverage....



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[Gunther]

Gun control. Too many laws. They are pointless.

Abortion. What the fuck did the baby do, for fuck's sake make it retroactive until age 30. The same people that want to kill babies bitch and moan about capital punishment. Besides why the hell should I pay for it?

Unions suck.

Entitlements I agree with Eddie.