OK, break's over......

[Niner]

.....Back on your heads.

[Thumper]

I understand Congress is taking a vacation now.

[BarryBobPosthole]

First they gotta count all the pork they stuck in the bill. Like the $2.2 billion for the dam project in Kentucky. Thank you, Senators Alexander and McConnell.

BKB

[Niner]

Yepper, McConnell and McCain are two democrats that need to be voted out on the next cycle!

[Captain]

I just keep singing that song....
One day at a time.
This will be all to do again in January.
America CANNOT keep spending like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BarryBobPosthole]

If what you say is true, and this whole hold everyone hostage thing isn't just a political ploy, then I am wondering why the House majority Republicans haven't come up with anything for the Senate to consider passing prior to the debt ceiling being raised or some funding of the government issue that needs to be passed. I mean, they've got all goddamned year to work on these things and we're supposed to believe that all of the sudden they get this CONVICTION about government spending?

I happen to agree we need to cut spending. but lets work on it NOW as in right this minute and not resort to political shenanigans to try to move something forward to deal with it. Why can't the Republicans even move something forward like Erskine-Bowles now instead of waiting? In my mind it'd make the Democrats look much much worse if the House passed something like that and the Senate Dems rejected it than the bullshit that they just pulled. Or does that make too much goddamned sense?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Come on Barry, they are doing something. They've created a "bi-partisan committee" to some up with a budget proposal and supposedly everything is "on the table".:D

[BarryBobPosthole]

Oh shoot. I forgot.

And I think that's what they were counting on me to do......forget.

BKB

[Captain]

Barry, I guess you been asleep he past few weeks. The house sent a BUNCH of proposals up all vote down by senate Democraps or threatened for veto by OBummer.

SEPTEMBER 20, 2013
Continuing resolution (H.J. Res. 59): keeps the government running at current spending levels and strengthens our economy by defunding the president’ health care law. (Passed in the House 230-189)

SEPTEMBER 28, 2013
Continuing resolution (H.J. Res. 59): keeps the government running at current spending levels and strengthens our economy by delaying the president’s health care law by one year, and permanently repealing ObamaCare’s tax on pacemakers and children’s hearing aids. (Amendment #1 Passed 248-174 | Amendment #2 Passed 231-192)

Pay Our Military Act (H.R. 3210): ensures our troops would be paid in the event of a government shutdown. (Passed in the House 423-0)

SEPTEMBER 30, 2013
Continuing resolution (H.J. Res. 59): keeps the government running at current spending levels; ensures there’s no special treatment for Congress under the president’s health care law; and delays ObamaCare’s individual mandate, providing all Americans with the same relief the president has given big businesses. (Passed in the House 228-201)

Continuing resolution (H. Res. 368): insists on plan to fund the government running at current spending levels; ensure there’s no special treatment for Congress under the president’s health care law; delays ObamaCare’s individual mandate, providing all Americans with the same relief the president has given big businesses; and requests a formal House-Senate conference to resolve differences. (Passed in the House 228-199)

OCTOBER 1, 2013
Speaker Boehner appoints negotiators to a formal House-Senate conference. See the full list here.

OCTOBER 2, 2013
Provide Local Funding for the District of Columbia Act (H.J. Res. 71): allows our nation’s capital to continue operating using its own funding. (Passed in the House by voice vote).

Open Our Nation's Parks and Museums Act (H.J. Res. 70): opens all of our national parks and museums, including the WWII Memorial in Washington, DC that was initially closed to veterans by the administration. (Passed in the House 252-173)

Research for Lifesaving Cures Act (H.J. Res. 73): provides funding for the National Institute of Health, which is responsible for lifesaving medical innovations and cancer research. Click here to see Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) comments about this effort. (Passed in the House 254-171)

OCTOBER 3, 2013
Pay Our Guard and Reserve Act (H.R. 3230): ensures the government shutdown doesn’t affect pay for our National Guard and Reserve. (Passed in the House 265-160)

Honoring Our Promise to America’s Veterans Act (H.J. Res. 72): provides immediate funding for critical veterans benefits and services, including disability claims, education and training, and more. (Passed in the House 259-157)

OCTOBER 4, 2013
National Emergency and Disaster Recovery Act (H.J. Res 85): provides immediate funding for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). (Passed in the House 247-164)

Nutrition Assistance for Low-Income Women and Children Act (H.J. Res. 75): provides immediate funding for the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, which “serves nearly 9 million mothers and young children,” and provides “vital nutrition that poor families might otherwise be unable to afford.” (Passed in the House 244-164)

OCTOBER 5, 2013
Federal Employee Retroactive Pay Fairness Act (H.R. 3223): provides for compensation of federal employees furloughed due to Senate Democrats' government shutdown. This is similar to bipartisan legislation enacted during previous shutdowns. (Passed in the House 407-0)






t-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">


ml>

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Thumper]

I very seldom forward the junk that circulates via e-mail or blog sites, but the blog I read last week (and later received in an e-mail) intrigues me. I have been involved with governmental "requisitioning" before and it's a nightmare most times. This blog entry has been bouncing around in my head all week and the more I think about it, the more I believe it. The blog was stating Obama had this shut-down planned long ago to trash the Republicans (which he's been doing non-stop) ... or maybe he was just a genius (yeah sure!) and was prepared knowing Congress would never get their shit together. Anyway ... here it is ... you guys can dwell on it now. (I deleted the names from the letter ... it was from one dufe to another dufe) ;)

XXXX,

I have worked in the government on and off for 38 years. During that time I became quite familiar with requisitions, bidding, awarding contracts etc. It is a time consuming process with bean-counters and pencil-necked bureaucrats every step of the way. The simplest request takes months not days or hours.

In less than 8 hours of the shutdown, "miraculously", professionally printed, 3X4 foot signs appeared all over the country in the tens of thousands saying- “this [park, facility, etc. with custom logos and current dates] closed due to government shutdown.

There has not been a government shutdown in 17 years. These signs were designed, specifications were determined, signs were then requisitioned, bids were posted and vetted, government contracts were awarded. The materials were then ordered and the signs manufactured then distributed through U.S. Mails or freight companies.

This shutdown was orchestrated, and planned well in advance, at least 6-8 months ago.

Millions of tax dollars were appropriated and spent in this process. There is a paper trail a mile long leading directly to the White House.

XXXX

[Captain]

I believe that wholeheartedly.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Penguin]

There is never a good time to cut spending... well I should say there is never a time when it can be done without pain. :)

Barry I have to shake my head at the hypocrisy of the current surplus of budget hawks. I am a real hawk. A dyed in the wool, don't spend it if you ain't got it (and even when you do maybe you should save it instead), balance the budget and look out for the long term budget hawk. And what I get from the current crop of faux hawks makes me want to chew nails.

They want to act like this problem just appeared overnight instead or built up over decades. They want to pretend we weren't headed into a catastrophic recession when the current admin took office. It is all bullocks! What they really want is a much smaller government. They would reject a balanced budget with a normal sized government as much as what we have now. But they can't say that out loud because very few people in the nation agree with that proposition.

Cut spending AND raise taxes.

That is the only way this gets fixed. Those who refuse one are as bad as those who reject the other. They are all contributing to the problem. It is like that phoney Paul Ryan and his supposed "serious" budget plan. Let's cut all of these social safety net programs BUT only for those of us under the age of 55. Screw him and his plan. I say negotiate on everything but when the cuts come we all take them together. No exceptions. Doing otherwise is just another example of kicking the can.

Will

[Chicken Dinner]

And, that Will, is why you're a Populist!

[Penguin]

And a thread killer, lol. :)

Will

[LJ3]

Makes sense to me! Am I popular too?

[Chicken Dinner]

One thing that isn't getting a lot of play and is actually part of why this is a good thing (even for your Tea Baggers) is that it does freeze in place for another 3 months the automatic spending cuts brought on by last year's sequestration. So, even though it's a bit of a chainsaw approach to cutting spending, spending is being cut.

[Penguin]

Makes sense to me! Am I popular too?

No but you get to be ignored by both political parties as a door prize for showing up. :)

Yeah Hank, I was hoping that the sequester would survive and it looks like it did. I think you are right in characterizing it as a chainsaw approach though. Kind of deliciously ironic that the only real spending discipline we've had in decades was done in such a half assed manner.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I think that's 'ballocks' and not 'bullocks' isn't it?

BKB

[Penguin]

Probably. Those englishmen never could spell worth a shit. :)

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Bullocks

1953


Bollocks

1954

[Thumper]

............ and buttocks! :booty

http://www.shockmansion.com/wp-content/myimages/2013/01/Posted-On-Shock-Mansion-3718.jpg

[Captain]

Thumper wins...

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Thumper]

Do I get a raise?

[Chicken Dinner]

Careful, it's probably a dude. Just sayin...

[Thumper]

Ummm, I looked at that pic for a while and have come to the conclusion, I really don't think I'd care! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Oh, and Larke, you might want to see which presidents have increased our national debt the most. Just so you'll know the facts.
BKB

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm

[Captain]

Oh man I wish you had posted that earlier. I'm going to change my registration today! I'll be a Democrap the rest of my life. Man they wear halos. Those mean old nasty, evil, Republicans...
I'm SURE their increases ain't got a DAMN thing to do with repairing all the short, quick fixes the democrats put on place before them. NOoooooo
God I've seen the light!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BarryBobPosthole]

Not trying to turn you into anything. Just showing some facts about deficit spending and the new found zeal by the same people who got us here to suddenly fix it.

BKB

[Captain]

See but the part that YOU will not acknowledge is that when Democrats are in office they will patch thing together and put into place quick fixes that HAVE to be addressed in the long term. Then Republicans inherit a mess and set long term goals and fixes. About the time those programs and solutions start to take hold the Dems get back in an appear to reap the harvest of better times.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BarryBobPosthole]

Uh no I don't think that's what has happened at all. In any era. all I've heard my entire adult life every time we have a democrat for president is a bunch of hatred spewing vitriolic nonsense from the republican side, and generally have been called every name in the book for having anything other than conservative political beliefs. And then when the Republicans get in office I hear the same thing from the democrats. So I have pretty much given up any hope that any of it makes a tinkers dam bit of difference. You say that Obama wants to redefine America. He couldn't even if he wanted to because the day that what happens in politics is the definition of America is the day I am moving to another country, any country. The main difference between you and I is you care about what happens in Washington. I really don't. I used to but I've not seen any reason for hope or change there in my entire lifetime. The system is broken and always has been.

[Buckrub]

"between you and me" is correct.

[Buckrub]

By the way, when Bush was President, you cared a LOT about Washington. You spent about half your posts here dissing him in some way. You even said you hated him so badly that you'd hate him even if he cured cancer.

So, some oxes get gored on both sides, at times. Or two oxes get gored at once. Or something. But everybody gores Oxen, I guess.

[Chicken Dinner]

Interesting analysis:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-reassess-after-shutdown-debacle/2013/10/17/e312159e-375d-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html?hpid=z1

[BarryBobPosthole]

But wait. I thought Obama engineered and caused the shutdown. didn't he print all those signs?

BKB

[Captain]

HAHAHAHAhahaha a Washington Post article, that's fair and impartial reporting NOT

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, we all know news can't be trusted unless the news is from an agency that is bent towards our own political beliefs. Not everyone can be as impartial as Bullshit Mountain.....er FoxNews I mean.

BKB

[Penguin]

Not trying to pick a fight here, just a couple observations from an independent. I'd really enjoy hearing whether you guys agree or not.

I think the Tea Party is not only a fringe group but also an insurgent group. By that I mean that they have a clear cut strategy of taking a larger, more important existing party and trying to shoehorn it into the shape of the TP. The trouble is that after a certain point you begin to alienate the more moderate or business friendly wings of the party. There is only so far that you can drag people to the right, after that you start to get backlash or even people leaving the party.

The TP guys I have listened to, and believe me I have done much more reading and paying attention the past month than posting and talking, don't seem to understand that they are not the majority. And further, that purging the GOP of "rinos" ain't going to do anything other than split the party or generate a huge moderate majority that will leave out TP candidates in the general election. The congressional districts have been drawn so crazily that they don't have to worry about this center in the house races but statewide? Nationwide?

Right now I have to say that I consider the TP a hindrance to a healthy long term fiscal plan than a help. Honestly you can draw up a plan in 10 minutes that is fair, balanced, and gets the job done. But that is not what they want. What they want is a drastically reduced federal government, a gashing of the social safety net, and a return to the kind of economic regulation that is akin to what this country had in 1920. In their zeal to not accept anything less they keep the nation from making good, solid steps toward fiscal prudence. All of this talk of deficit cutting is a stalking horse.

Will

[Niner]

Actually BBP, the NEWS part of FoxNews....not particularly the evening shows...is VERY balanced in their reporting. Now, I'll admit the evening shows MIGHT lean a bit to the right, but the NEWS reporting is, as they say, fair & balanced.

Unlike the Clinton News Network, or PMSNBC, or the on-air networks who's "reporting of the news" is so far to the left it is downright comical. Now, that Ed Shultzz....THERE'S a journalist. NOT!

[Niner]

And speaking of news....

Here's a pretty good (IMHO) conservative news site:
http://www.redstate.com/

[BarryBobPosthole]

Niner, I honestly don't watch either one of them on TV. I usually catch the CBS Evening news if I catch national news at all. Mostly I just watch the local news. I do read both the FoxNews website and CNN though and the bias from both is disgusting. I have yet to find an 'objective' web based news site. I tried USA Today but they aren't biased, they just suck.

BKB

[Captain]

If you don't watch Fox News you are getting the news. You are getting a heavy left leaning spin on the news.
Theirs is fair and Balanced. They always have opposing guest and they don't always win argument.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Chicken Dinner]

From Fox News:

Liberal bias? Fox’s Dana Perino, who was George W. Bush’s spokesman, said, "On balance, if this was a battle, the Democrats definitely won.”

In the hits, runs, and, errors score-keeping that prevails inside the Beltway, this is undoubtedly true. Obama went into this showdown saying he wouldn’t negotiate, and the Ted Cruz wing was determined to defund or delay ObamaCare.

The strategy failed, the president got what he wanted with only a minor concession on the health care law, and the GOP plummeted in the polls.

In purely political terms, Obama is in better shape than he was a month ago, when he was seen as zig-zagging on Syria.

[BarryBobPosthole]

This whole episode is disgraceful, whether you're a democrat or republican. There are no winners. (Don't you know this isn't some damned game?)

BKB

[Buckrub]

Penguin, if the Tea Party is an Insurgent Group because they try to shape a legitimate party into a Fringe Party, then what the heck has happened to the Democrat Party of my youth? Michael Moore, Hollywood Idiots, Pelosi........just totally, TOTALLY, took over the Democrat Party.

Good grief. Be fair.

Besides Taxed Enough Already is pretty dadgum open and honest, as a statement. It's sort of like Pro Life and "Pro Choice". If you get to pick your words and define them, you win every argument. IT should be "Pro Life" and "Anti Life". The folks against the TEA Party clearly want More Taxes. Duh. So say so. Say you love taxes. Say that you love government.

Lunch place downtown has a true, flaming, Bleeding Heart. He says that very thing. He says "I LOVE GOVERNMENT. I LOVE TAXES" and he's laughed out of the building. No one likes taxes. It's a coerced theft made by nefarious thieves to spend on things you'd never spend them on. I know more about how to spend my money than YOU do. Or anyone else. The sheer Ego and Elitism of telling me you can spend my money better than I can!!! So, yeah, if a group wants to stand up and say "We are tired of being taxed this way", I'm for 'em.

But Fringe Group? Go to a meeting, willya? They're just folks.

And Posthole didn't/won't answer me about how he loved talking and thinking about the Government when he was a Minority!!!! And he did. Now he (and all the Liberals) don't like anyone bashing their Hero in any way, cause it might be racist. Gag me.

Going to go sit in a tree for a few days.........and stop thinking of all this.

P.S.
Cappy, I got to admit that ONLY Fox News comes anywhere near close to being fair. But they are not balanced. I have this argument with my buddy at camp, who is addicted to them. It gags me. They are not fair and balanced merely because they invite a Liberal on, then bash them. Yes, they invite them. Yes, they let them speak. Yes, that may seem like it's balanced. But it's not. Balanced would be one hour of Hannity, and THEN one hour of Colmes!!! But they are not doing that, and no one is. Every single outlet is unbalanced.

YES, Fox is the only one that even bothers to invite a speaker from 'the other side'. Yes,that's better. No, none of the others do that. So that's good.

But it ain't Fair and Balanced.

[Chicken Dinner]

Will, you're spot on as usual. I saw some polling data of Republicans last week on this. Only about 1/3 of Republicans consider the Tea Party to actually be Republicans as opposed to a separate political party.


Not trying to pick a fight here, just a couple observations from an independent. I'd really enjoy hearing whether you guys agree or not.

I think the Tea Party is not only a fringe group but also an insurgent group. By that I mean that they have a clear cut strategy of taking a larger, more important existing party and trying to shoehorn it into the shape of the TP. The trouble is that after a certain point you begin to alienate the more moderate or business friendly wings of the party. There is only so far that you can drag people to the right, after that you start to get backlash or even people leaving the party.

The TP guys I have listened to, and believe me I have done much more reading and paying attention the past month than posting and talking, don't seem to understand that they are not the majority. And further, that purging the GOP of "rinos" ain't going to do anything other than split the party or generate a huge moderate majority that will leave out TP candidates in the general election. The congressional districts have been drawn so crazily that they don't have to worry about this center in the house races but statewide? Nationwide?

Right now I have to say that I consider the TP a hindrance to a healthy long term fiscal plan than a help. Honestly you can draw up a plan in 10 minutes that is fair, balanced, and gets the job done. But that is not what they want. What they want is a drastically reduced federal government, a gashing of the social safety net, and a return to the kind of economic regulation that is akin to what this country had in 1920. In their zeal to not accept anything less they keep the nation from making good, solid steps toward fiscal prudence. All of this talk of deficit cutting is a stalking horse.

Will

[Buckrub]

That's funny. Only 22% of Tea Party members consider the Republican Party to be valid, either.

:D

[BarryBobPosthole]

Bucky, Obama ain't my hero. But the shit you guys spew is so far off target it ain't even funny. Somebody's gotta be around to keep you straight on stuff.

The things I hated about Bush I hate about Obama as well if you want to know the truth. There's no accountability in government. Ted Cruz won't suffer any consequences at all for costing us $20 billion dollars let alone for the huge waste of time he caused us. the people who crafted the ACA website won't get fired because in government you can fuck up a wet dream and nobody is held accountable. Under Bush, his own advisors outed a CIA agent and there was practically no accountability. The list goes on and on and its true of both of these lame brain presidents we've elected. Can you blame the American people for voting to change the way things were going? and what's the Tea Party mantra? How's that hopey changey thing working out for you? Really? That's their answer? There's no reason for hope or change in our government?

As for the Tea Party, they are a fringe group just like the extreme left is. Right now, Obama isn't controlling his party either as that is where the refusal to negotiate is coming from. Even when the Republicans aren't holding a gun to their own head and shouting "I'm gonna kill the n-----!". My state legislature is as tea party as one can get. About all they've done is act on social issues that are important to the Tea Party. Meanwhile our public education in Oklahoma is going right down the tubes. there is a certain amount of progress that's been made to make the state more palatable to business, but I give our Republican governor most of the credit for that. she's led those fights herself. As a ruling party though, I can't say the Tea Party Republicans in my state have actually made life any better for Oklahomans by getting government out of our lives. We already lived in a state where the government wasn't much inviolved in the first place. About all this state government has done is ensure we won't ever have sharia laws, run off, laid off and totally discouraged a shitload of great schoolteachers, and protected the interests of all of the business related special interest groups in the state, like the liquor distributors, the pharmacies, and doctors who commit malpractice. The one good thing they've done IMO is get Oklahoma off the Federal teat. We don't accept a lot of federal funding for stuff and our state budget is balanced. I gotta hand them that.

I still don't understand why we can't build a decent rest area though.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Good we're all agreed. Let's kick the tea baggers and the religious right out because I want my Party back.


That's funny. Only 22% of Tea Party members consider the Republican Party to be valid, either.

:D

[Buckrub]

I get it.

But the spin YOU put on it is also wrong.

I showed you, in a documented list, where the House sent the Dem-Senate and Obama proposal after proposal, and they wouldn't consider it. They were the ones that would not negotiate. But from your perspective, you can NOT see that. You have to see it the other way, cause that's the side of the chasm that YOU are standing on. Your side is right.

My comments were to Willy about blaming the Tea Party, and the Tea Party ONLY for being Fringe. If Michael Moore and Dean and Pelosi et al are NOT Fringe, and way more than the common folks that make up the Tea Party, then I'm crazy. They are rich hypocrites that hate me. I don't care for 'em. But to jump up as you both seem to do (but it was HIS thread I was replying to) and blame some folks cause they are TIRED of being taxed, then I get upset. If you want fairness, then BE FAIR for gosh sakes.

And your memory is short too. I lambasted "W" for all his "programs". He had Republican ideology, but he spent like a Democrat.

And just this week I put up a thread lambasting both parties.......because they both spend like wild men. I'm not a Shill. I even used you and Julie as an example of spending (or anyone and his wife). Both can't spend on their pet stuff, cause the bank doesn't care. I did that, but I got no credit from the "Left" around here for that.

I just said Fox News is better than the rest, but NOT BALANCED. I get no credit for that.

The truth is that Ted Cruz and Rush Limbaugh are NOT the Republican Party. But they are the very ones that you use to give examples of why you don't like Republicans. They are FRINGE FOLKS.

But the problem is that Pelosi and Moore and Baldwin and Dean and all are NOT FRINGE Democrats. They represent the majority opinion of most Democrats.

If you truly, honestly, can't see that, then you are fostering an agenda and not having an honest discussion.

[BarryBobPosthole]

The Tea Party is stuck like a tick to the Republican Party they criticize so much. That's because they wouldn't be a viable party without them. Same reason the extreme left sticks to the Democratic Party. I still say Bill Clinton's strategy of stealing the center from the Republicans is the smoothest trick ever played since LBJ was in national politics. It was the political strategy of the century. and yet, the current Democratic party would no sooner adopt that strategy than they would cut off welfare. It part denial, part stupidity. On both party's parts. the Republican could win the center too if they'd just go after it.

BKB

[Penguin]

Penguin, if the Tea Party is an Insurgent Group because they try to shape a legitimate party into a Fringe Party, then what the heck has happened to the Democrat Party of my youth? Michael Moore, Hollywood Idiots, Pelosi........just totally, TOTALLY, took over the Democrat Party.

Good grief. Be fair.



Hahaha, allow me to offer this: In one way you are completely, 100% correct. In another you are completely missing the boat. At least as far as I see things. Which may be totally out in left field. Or even further off the mark than that. :)

Yes, the Democratic party has a surplus of truly out of touch liberals. They've had them for years. But what has the accepted and put forward policy of the party been? On social issues alone those folks are truly in power. Mass immigration. Minority friendly employment and education regulations/initiatives. Gender friendly laws on issues regarding so called "women's rights". A barely concealed (pardon the pun) and suppressed (again, pardon the pun) left wing that salivates at the thought of setting aside the 2nd Amendment. I could go on. On social issues they are in power.

But on economic issues? Lock step the party has endorsed practically every so called Free Trade agreement coming down the pike. Their presidents have gleefully went along with banking deregulation (that has resulted catastrophic economic carnage). A good chunk of the party has accepted the right wing's Neoliberal doctrines from top to bottom. There is a name for this changeup on economic issues: The Third Way. Remember that one?

All of which leads me to this: What contingent of democratic party members was left out cold by the combination of these two policy shifts?

Here's a hint: They look a lot like me and they tend to come from backgrounds much like mine. MOF I am probably the only member of my family who could now be considered not one of them. White, middle class, blue collar workers. Remember Reagan Democrats? This is where they came from. They were disillusioned with how the Democratic Party had abandoned labor issues in favor of identity politics... especially when the group singled out to take a hit from those policies was them! This disillusionment and resentment led them away from the party and into the arms of the Republicans. That resentment can still be felt if you talk to them. And without the labor influenced policies of the democrats that acceptance of their resentment is the only consolation that they get from either party. They were abandoned. They've had to accept policies and laws that directly hurt them to stay Republican but the Democrats offer them little or nothing at all except more erosion of whatever has been left to them after the favored minority groups get their turn at the trough. At least as they see it.

But the Third Way was the party's deal with the devil. This is how they managed to get their hands on campaign funds and business backing as private sector labor has shrunk over the decades to a shadow of its former self. They embraced the banking sector as their former biggest backers fade into history.

All of that leads me to this: the Republican Party faces much the same situation now. They are going to have to have their own deal with the devil. They are going to have to toss aside one wing of their party because the TP puts them in a position of having ideologically incompatible wings.

Will

[Buckrub]

I don't belong to either one of 'em.

I am a charter member of the Fair Party.

So far, it seems to be just me.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm in the Bruton Party of Two Party.
BKB