My out the door rant.....

[Buckrub]

Headed to camp in an hour or so. But after a few phone calls last night, and some info from my insurance broker, I have a rant.

First, I want to actually give a kudo to a government agency's website. Amazed? So am I. But to be fair the Medicare part D section of their website is very, very good. You can put in the exact medication you take, the frequency for a whole year, even the occasional ones (if you guess right on frequency), and it will spit out the best insurance plan for you. It will detail every month's costs, copays, deductibles, premiums, everything. Very easy to do, very easy to read, very good info.

Note that Medicare does not actually provide Part D insurance. They "allow" it to be sold by private companies, those evil things.

Now the rant.

Talked to two guys that are about to blow a gasket. Remember the famous "Obamacare will not make you change ANY of your current insurance"??? Well, balderdash and poppycock. These two guys are having to change!! They got letters saying that their health insurance was cancelled, due to Obamacare. So they now have to go out on the "exchange" and pay a zillion percent more for less coverage. Bam. What a wonderful idea this is, right?

Me? I said my Part D went up 60%. That was a guess. If I put in my exact medications, my plan is going up in total out of pocket costs, about 82%!!!

Now, I realize some of you lucky ducklings have no change, and are very happy, and are lost as to why folks are upset. Well, goody goody gumdrops for your happy butt. I'm so tickled for you. Honest, I am. But you have to realize you are NOT the norm, and NOT the majority. This stuff is real.

This is NOT political. Political means that you have an agenda and a philosophy and you want those fomented. This is just an observation of reality. This stuff is bad, overall.

Well, it gets worse.

My last three doc visits, the bill comes in and Medicare doesn't pay for X, or Y, or Z. Huh? I check into it, and these are very normal, common things that each doctor has done every time I go in to see that respective doctor. Somehow, Medicare breaks down each component (such as "office visit") into multiple parts, and decides it won't pay anything towards some of those parts.

Oh, well...........I have Medicare Supplement Policy, right? Wrong. I have one, but it will NOT pay anything that Medicare will not pay!!! That's right. I thought it was a 'supplement', meaning it covered what Medicare does not cover. Nope. Medicare Supplement policies only pay for the SAME things Medicare pays for, they just merely cover the cost portion that Medicare doesn't cover. Meaning, the same procedures and office visits that were paid 100% by your old policy, under Medicare AND a Supplement, is maybe covered at about 75%.

It gets worse than that.

The procedures that ARE covered by Medicare AND the Supplement policy, are covered at an amount that Medicare deems appropriate, and not a penny more. Most insurance does similar things, right? Well, in a way, yes. But Medicare is crazy about it. They will take a procedure that the doctor bills at $120 and they will pay $7.31. That's a real example. NO WONDER doctors won't take new patients with Medicare.

I went to doc yesterday. I am now having to sign a form every time I go that is a Medicare form, that says "If Medicare doesn't pay, I will". I said "that's no different than ANY insurance". And they told me that the difference is that in private insurance, the diff between what the doctor bills and the company pays is small. With Medicare it's astronomical, and they can't afford to have too many medicare patients, they'd go broke.

Meanwhile, my brother gets FREE Medicaid because he gets FREE food stamps, and for no other reason. No application, nothing. A form saying "You get food stamps, sign here for free Medicaid".

Meanwhile, a working young man I know that has zero health problems is being forced to buy health insurance. I'm not even awfully opposed to this, but it'd be nice if the insurance companies HAD to keep you forever regardless, but they don't. Every year, they can boot you out.

We can talk about politics and such, all day long. But these are real examples of what is happening in the real world.

And it's a mess. And it destroyed a system that was expensive (due to drastic increases in procedures and medicines) but worked, and replaced it with a boondoggle.

In 5 years, the inmates will be revolting. Every one of them.

Meanwhile, your Representative and Senator that you love (you hate mine, but you keep electing yours) doesn't have to worry with it.

What a mess.

[Arty]

Good post.
And it's gonna get worse!

Now go shoot something. Just don't hurt yourself out there, you can't afford to go to the doctor.

[Gunther]

Duh.

All the Fart Smellers want an Canuckian/You'reapeein' health care system.

Now that it's here most will bitch.

Except the ones that don't pay anyway.

Which don't do now either.

[Chicken Dinner]

Not trying to argue, but to have a discussion.

1. I thought Medicaid was for poor folks. Did Arkansas just decided to reduce the bureaucy and say if you qualify for Food Stamps, you're poor enough for Medicaid? If so, sounds like a good thing.

2. This issue with Medicare paying cents on the dollar and providers (hospitals and physcian practices) going broke if their Medicare/Medicaid mix was too high is not new. Maybe it's gotten worse, but I had clients dealing with that issue back in the early to mid 90's.

3. And, yes they did lie when they said nobody would have to change insurers or pay more. There's lots of current plans, particularly those covering individuals as opposed to groups, that can't afford to provide the ACA required minimum benefits at the rates they were charging. So, they either increase rates or cancel the plan. It's a total load of crap that people are having the choice taken away from them.

[BarryBobPosthole]

We heard the same diatribe against medicare back when it was enacted. None of the socialist/communist/nazi/theworldisgoingtohellinahandbasket scenarios came to pass.

And no, Gunther this is about as far from a single payer system as you can get. Personally, I am FOR a single payer health care system in the US, but ACA ain't it.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Gunther, this is far from a Canadian or European single payer system. If I was conspiracy theorist, and I am, I might suspect them of making this so bad that folks would be willing to go that route.

[Penguin]

I accept and appreciate your rant Bucky. It's a good one to start the morning off right. :)

Now a question: Do you see ~any~ way that the system we have can actually be reformed? Seriously? I agree that there are a ton and a half of things wrong with the system. It has been a disaster and a disgrace for decades. The ACA 'Obamacare' addition? 100 pounds of ugly on top of an already ugly situation.

Face it Bucky, the system doesn't work. It can't work. It is filled with graft and corruption and protectionism and influence peddling and market barriers and every other kind of market skewing mechanism imaginable. It is a complete and unredeemable market failure. When they write the book on it in a hundred years people will shake their heads that we tolerated it.

But remember this: Competition exists between countries/systems as well as between companies within a system. We can't afford to have such a costly and inefficient system and we will drop it sooner or later. Like it or not. We will be forced to adopt one of the systems of the countries we trade with. This system will be protected and resist change at all costs. Eventually we will break it not because we are "socialist" or "commie" but simply because other nations do it cheaper and we'll be forced to adopt their system.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Face it Bucky, the system doesn't work. It can't work. It is filled with graft and corruption and protectionism and influence peddling and market barriers and every other kind of market skewing mechanism imaginable. It is a complete and unredeemable market failure. When they write the book on it in a hundred years people will shake their heads that we tolerated it.
Will

The same thing can be said for our policies in: banking, agriculture, energy, food, drugs, and a bunch of others. All of which the government props up the prices we pay ay the counter for these products and services so that our economy isn't overly affected or influenced by any one of them. And yet, none of the politicos or right wingers have any issues with the socialistic aspect of any of that governmental tampering and control. Talk about redistribution of wealth! The amount of wealth redistributed in these 'programs' makes welfare look like peanuts. And yet.....Senator Cruz isn't reading green eggs and ham over any of these issues.
We have to decide if a free market is really what we want or not, because the roller coaster ride the economy would take if any one of these were on an actual free market cost basis. I don't think the majority of Americans want that instability.
JMO.
BKB

[Penguin]

Yeah, we probably don't. When you have a complete market failure or an industry that can be so powerful that it hurts the rest of the economy? Well, we know how to take care of that. Question is how long we'll wait to do it. Looking at the number of folks set to retire in the next 20 years? I'd say time is short.

If I were someone who actually believed that a free market health care system was possible and a good thing? I'd encourage my reps to stop posturing and start working on real live concrete solutions. Time is short. I'm not sure that they are fastening the noose around their own necks. Eventually people will get so fed up with the insecurity and costs that they will just say screw it and start clamoring for a single payer system. That might be the only way, but if I believed otherwise I would quit screwing around and playing politics.

I think what you have your finger on is exactly that. These guys aren't really looking for solutions as they are protecting the status quo.

Will

[Gunther]

This act is to MAKE a single payer health system. I realize that makes some of you all excited and stuff.

Medicare was doomed at the start with people drawing out that never paid in. This whole pass the bill to the kids mentality shit is aggravating as hell. Liberalism is a religion. Woody Wilson and his progressive bullshit is the libs equivalent of Moses. FDR must then be God himself and of course BO is the messiah.

I have worked in health care almost 30 years, a whole lot of people got totally free health care from me. Of course it cost me quite a bit to take care of them. I guess some of you think that's ok. FUCK YOU THEN. I think you should pay for my stuff. I'd like a new pickup, a big screen tv etc. If you don't send money you hate children and you're retarded.

If anyone has ever read the Constitution they know that the ACA, EPA, and legislation by the courts is totally against the separation of powers.


:thwak

[Chicken Dinner]

Don't confuse me trying to be fair about what the system is and isn't with me liking the system. As it is, someone is paying (either through higher fees, higher insurance, or you getting screwed) for folks who can't or won't pay. That's just wrong. If someone offered me the choice for hospitals, doctors or ambulance drivers to refuse service to those who don't get insurance or can't pay, I'd be first in line to sign up.

[BarryBobPosthole]

In that case, CD, it isn't just refusing treatment for those who can't pay, but also would come down to refusing treatment for people who pay but can't prove it on the spot. You willing to make that a requirement too? I can't think of how we'd do it if we don't require proof on the spot.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Put a chip in all of us. The NSA can use it to monitor our thoughts as well.

It looks like the people of of NODAK are signing up in droves. According to Blue Cross, they've signed up 20 (yes, that's right "twenty"), less than one per day, since October 1st. It's a wonder their servers can keep up.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/416090/

[Gunther]

How about the frequent flyers? The ones that abuse the system over and over and over ad nauseum.............

[Captain]

Tread lightly on what you say about the Ag subsidies Posthole. I would be 100% in agreement with you if every cow we raised, every ear of corn, every head of wheat stayed in this country. But the fact of the matter is American Farmers feed a good portion of this whole damn globe. So these subsides don't just get paid so you and I can buy a cheap loaf of bread. It's done as much for humanity reasons as anything.

Is there abuses, yes. Is it right, no. Should it be changed and tightened, yes but so should all these other programs such as welfare, unemployment, disability etc.

You want to see abuse. Jump on Craiglist and search Food stamps. Folks are selling 500 dollars of food stamps on Craig list for 300 bucks. Guess their drug dealers want take food stamps. Ya' think those folks really NEED food stamps?

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[BarryBobPosthole]

I think you been reading the news on bullshit mountain is what I think.

The Ag subsidies aren't the way they are to benefit or feed people overseas either. they're that way for Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto to make billions of dollars of our tax dollars. If it was going to farmers, at least non-factory ones, it'd be a different story. The price of corn has gone up 100% in the last ten years. Yet production of corn has increased 30% in that same period. And yet.....food prices have only risen 3% in the entire last TWO decades. You tell me where the profits that are being made off of that 100% increase in corn prices. The farmers? Hell no it ain't. We're getting screwed on both ends. and don't tell me its anything to do with ethanol. The corn still gets sold at that same price.

But my point is this: Food represents 14% of the average American family annual expenditure/income. Health care averages 7% of the pie. We seem to be used to the idea of the government running our agricultural system to stabilize commodity prices on such a large chunk of what it costs to live. We're screaming bloody murder about something that represents HALF of what that costs. Talk about passing shit off to our grandkids. We're also passing off a terrible priority list.

BKB

[Captain]

Bullshit Posty. Corn is down to 4.30 a bushel and still dropping. In South America they have developed a strain of corn they can harvest in 60 days from planting. They will get three crops a year to our one with their growing season. The bottom is falling out of corn. So what do we do? Stop growing it here and import this DNA altered corn? It might be the answer for ethanol gas but will our people eat it?
So in the meantime corn falls to 3 bucks (a very real figure it could go to) and it cost farmers more than that to produce it cause fuel prices have DOUBLED in the first 4 years of the Change Master (lier in Chief) thus shooting fertilizer, and Ag. chemicals out the roof!
So American farmers stop growing corn, wanna guess how many jobs will go away when that happens? And I ain't talking farming jobs either.

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[BarryBobPosthole]

I said over ten years dufus. It was $2.27 in 2003/ $6.67 at the beginning of this year. that's actually a bit more than 100% but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. And we don't eat the corn they use to produce ethanol or any other number two corn because it's inedible. Its still used in practically every food we eat. Its even in our DNA now. We're more corny than any mexican.
And corn prices are down right now because we just had a record year. Up 30% from last year although a big piece of that is bbecause of the drought. Still we produce more corn than ever, the price is doubled, and the consumers aren't paying that difference. Who is? Its coming out of your damned income taxes in case you have been keeping up with the discussion.

BKB

BKB

[Captain]

You want to see what was happening in 2003 when corn was 2.50? George W. Bush was in office and gas was a 1.50 a gallon you could afford to buy fertilizer and Ag chemicals.
This 6 dollar corn and 4 dollars gas is part of the Change America wanted. In case YOU weren't paying attention.

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[Buckrub]

My points are 100% valid and 100%true. You can all agree now or in five years.....OR when YOU go on Medicare.

Till then search for a stool.

I have read nothing that contradicts them....just whining that I made the points.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not planning to get on an entitlement program if I can help it. Too early to tell.

BKB

[Arty]

I'm not planning to get on an entitlement program if I can help it. Too early to tell. BKB Why not?!? You're paying for it, unlike a lot of people that are on it. Might as well use it!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Because that's part of the problem. Medicare was originally intended for eldery and handicapped people who couldn't afford their own insurance. Now its an 'entitlement' that everybody feels like they deserve.

Besides, somebody real smart told me the government couldn't possibly do health insurance correctly. Seriously, until I run out of money, I plan to buy my own privae insurance. Its in the retirement plan.

BKB

[Captain]

I'm not planning to get on an entitlement program if I can help it. Too early to tell. BKB

You not planing on responding to my Bush comments above either. :D

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Nah, he only spent us into a huge hole. He's got enough on his plate laready. Our ag policies are bipartisan problems. It still frustrates me that the conservatives act like its invisible.
BKB

[Captain]

If Bush spent us in a hole, OBummer is spending us into the Grand Canyon. We are only spending currently one million dollars per minute 24 hours a day all on credit card! Not to mention 400 MILLION on OBummer care software that don't work.... Let that figure sink in a minute 400 million on junk that will probably have to be trashed and start over. This is HIS legacy deal and he can't get it done. He say 2 million people have accessed the site. But so far there are around 400,000 people only signed up. Some democrats are already switching to side with the republicans calling for a one year push back. So I guess the democrats shut down should have been avoided cause this thing will be delayed as the Republicans have said all along.

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[BarryBobPosthole]

I never said he was anything. All I said is you're awful selective about what you get excited about. They all suck. There ain't a dimes worth of salt in the whole stinking lot of 'em.


BKB

[Captain]

I've been selective all my life.
But what I believe in, I defend. And what I know is all Americans pocketbooks are hurting and double fuel cost are a big part of it. But OBummer gets a free pass on it where Bush was raked over the coals if it went up a dime.
And I'll never see where Bush spend us in a hole and Obama ain't. The way I see it is Obama is spending us into the Grand Canyon and covering us with dirt!

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[DeputyDog]

You do have a great point about the gas prices. When Bush was in office, everytime gas went up, it was blamed on him and his big oil connections. Now that the price is as high as it is, no one is blaming Obama for it or for not doing something about it.

[Penguin]

My points are 100% valid and 100%true. You can all agree now or in five years.....OR when YOU go on Medicare.

Till then search for a stool.

I have read nothing that contradicts them....just whining that I made the points.

Lol, Bill gets the last word. Or the best retort in any event.

I don't like the new system any better than the last one. But I don't get excited about the whole "I'm paying for someone else!!!!" stuff either. Those of us lucky enough to have insurance have been paying for those without for decades and decades. So have taxpayers. All this has done is take some of that out into the open and also to make some of those who have refused to take precautions with insurance to do so. If this pisses people off then I think that is a good thing. They should have been pissed of decades ago. Maybe now we can honestly sit down and bring ALL the costs into the open and decide what to do. We're gonna be forced to in a decade anyhow.

As far as the whole 'socialist' thing goes? Ahhh, I can see the point I suppose. But medical insurance has been subsidized by the federal government for decades. It is a tax write-off on the employer end and an untaxed compensation on the employee end. It isn't like the rest of us are icons of pure free market health care to begin with. I don't have much of a problem with providing this kind of incentive for those who cannot get insurance. I know this goes beyond that point, but by how much? Not as much as some would lead you to believe. Further, I REALLY don't have a problem with providing the same kind of monetary incentive that I receive to the self employed. To my eye this is nothing more than leveling the field between the bigger companies and the dude running his own business out of his living room.

Will

[Captain]

You do have a great point about the gas prices. When Bush was in office, everytime gas went up, it was blamed on him and his big oil connections. Now that the price is as high as it is, no one is blaming Obama for it or for not doing something about it.

Exactly, and this is one area that affects us ALL across the board not only in the cost and amount of driving we do, but in the increases in cost on everything.
And yet somehow the Lier in Chief gets a free pass. Where are all those Loud Mouth Demo's that raised hell at Bush over the 10 cent increases? Drinking the Koolaid I guess. It was a buck seventy nine the day Ding Dong walked in office and now it ain't no Nickle and Dime increase its DOUBLED under his watch.
Take Care, Captain

[Thumper]

I honestly believe ... without a doubt ... he'll go down in history as the absolute worst (at best, second worst) President this country has ever endured. I'm serious about that.

[Captain]

I agree with you 100% except on the 2nd worse part...
And I too an serious

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, I agree he ain't much punk, but if I ask myself the old Reagan question, "are you better off an you were eight years ago" then I have to say yes I am. Financially anyway. The last bunch we had in there about tanked my 401k, put my company in the position of laying off a bunch of folks, and we spent a trillion dollars on the wars they got us into in the eight years previous, which is about what ACA will cost us in that same period of time. so we've had two presidents but the same bunch of assholes in both houses of congress that we keep electing.

BKB

[Thumper]

I don't know who "we" is ... it sure wasn't ME!

[Captain]

Yea, vote me out of "we" too. I was a hell of a lot better off under Bush and even Klinton than we are now.

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[Chicken Dinner]

Let me say that when my turn at the government teat comes, I'll be suckling away with absolutely no guilt. Barring some catastrophic situation in the next couple of years, I will have paid in way more than I ever get back. I'm also not sure I'm better off today then I was 8 years ago. Sure, I make more money. But, that's because I've advanced in my career. If I made 8 years ago what I made today, I quite certain I wouldn't be better off. I pay way more for gas, groceries and, even though my health insurance isn't going up next year, health insurance. I also pay more in taxes, and will pay even more in the future, as a result of the ACA. If what my HR colleagues are telling me is true, I will also have reduced benefits in the future and more of the health insurance I have will be taxed. Frankly, some of that is okay with me in exchange for greater healthcare portability and changes to rules for pre-existing conditions for me and better access for the truly poor. I might feel different about that if I was seeing the kind of increases RT is talking about. Again, this is just my own personal calculus.

[Thumper]

Well, I can say, without a doubt, I was MUCH better off 8 years ago than I am today ... and I DEFINITELY made more money then! :(

[Buckrub]

I was way better off 8 years ago.

I was 57.