Ed, some more help?

[Buckrub]

OK, one byproduct of the driveway and dirt work, was the sacrificing of a pretty decent sized cedar tree. Had to go in order to get the backhoe in there. I suggested it cause when I saw it, I saw "BRIDGE RUNNER!!!" for the farm.

Today, I went back there where he pushed it out of the way, and stripped it with a chainsaw, and hauled it onto my property with the wheely. While back there, a blackjack oak had split about 1/2 of itself and fallen, and I cut it up with chainsaw and hauled it onto her woodpile (till my saw, and my back, both dulled out)........

anyway............

May be hard question to answer............but about what diameter of cedar is it going to take to make this bridge??? I am pretty sure this cedar is big enough, but it's NOT the biggest cedar I ever saw. I didn't measure it. But there is another one at the other corner of my property almost identical, and I'd cut it down in a heartbeat......and that gives me two runners. There is also one that is dead, and slightly smaller (not dead long I don't think), that might work for a center runner to give me three, and shore up things.................. then 2X8's and some galvanized nails and I'm in business, I think.

But......just curious.....how big would the cedar runners have to be in order to make a bridge strong enough for most four wheelers and/or side-by-sides, loaded down???

[Thumper]

Ummm, I thought you were a math major? I believe the length of the span and weight you want to run across the bridge will have a lot to do with it. Is this sumpin' you're gonna drive your loaded truck with loaded trailer over? Or is it a foot path/wheelie bridge? Will you be running a D9 Cat across it in the future?

[Buckrub]

You never read what I write.

And I have praised you lately. *sniff*

No, dufewad. Nothing ever bigger than a loaded down side by side, maybe pulling a trailer. And Ed has seen a picture of the ditch.

And I can go figure all night if'n I want. Ed and Cappy (and JoeF if he hadn't have runt oft) and others have done this stuff, by hand, and I respect their opinions. I subject myself to ridicule, which is irrelevant, just to get the little gems of wisdom they throw out. If I had to ask about a car engine, I'd ask you. I'd catch a ton of grief, but I'd listen, intently.

[Thumper]

You dufewad ... either I suffered temporary blindness when I read your original post the first 2-3 times ... or you made clever use of the edit button and added that last sentence when I wasn't looking. ;)

[Buckrub]

It was there from the beginning. I swear.

HOWEVER....."temporary blindness" = "Thump Reading Anything Buckrub Writes"

:biggrin

[Thumper]

Ha! I read EVERYTHING you write ... (except those crappy baseball threads) ... otherwise I wouldn't know when to rag on ya'! :D

[Buckrub]

Of COURSE you would, idjit.

If it's AM or PM..............that's the only time you ever do it.

[Thumper]

:biggrin

[Captain]

Bucky if that ain't a heart cedar don't use it for a runner. You will be rebuilding in a few years if you do. And rebuilding it is going to be harder than building it.
Get some treated material for the runners or better yet steel

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[Big Muddy]

Cap, I've already recommended to Bucky, the exact same things, that you have....however, a local guy mentioned to him about simply using some trees, as the runners....my reply was, yes, they could be used, but common sense says they will only last a few years.

Bucky, in my opinion, your best and cheapest solution is still the telephone poles....however, if you want to go first class, and be done with it, forever, then the I-beams are the answer.

If I remember correctly, a certain GH southern gentleman, who is only a 3 hours drive from you, offered you some telephone poles for free....all you gotta do is show up with a trailer, and sit in your truck, scratching your butt, while he even loads them on your trailer for you.

And, do NOT use nails, if you go with any type of wood construction....they will rust and loosen over time, and are a pain in the azz, with all that hammering....use polymer-coated deck screws with the star-drive T23 heads...they install easily with a good 18 or 24 volt drill.

2631

[Buckrub]

OK, I will use telephone poles. But I got free cedar 'runners'........ and currently own ONE 5X10 trailer.............(see other post about trying to sell out to buy a bigger trailer)

Sigh.

Steel. I swear. I wish some of y'all knew how the 'other half' lives!!! I mean, you're RIGHT........but geez. If I had Bill Gates' money, I wouldn't be asking how to do this! I'd be hiring some guys that already knew how.........

and I got a great 18v drill. No, it's a DRIVER!!! (sorry, Bwana)

[Buckrub]

Oh..........I don't know what a crepe myrtle is..............and I don't know what a heart cedar is..............sorry.

I DO know that I am almost a pro at scratching my butt..........very proficient. In fact, after some very serious consternation, I can think of absolutely no one on Earth that does that better than I.

[Arty]

Go with the cedar if the cedar is more than a foot in diameter on the smal end and the length is less than 20 feet.

If the bridge/footpath is less than 6-7 feet wide and you have three (one in the middle) and you use 2x8 treated.

And SCREWED down real good ...
You'll be fine your grand kids will have to replace it some day. But you won't be around.

Just don't try to pull that fancy camper arocss it.

[Thumper]

Use that cedar for firewood! Then head down to your local Army Surplus store and pick up one o'these puppies! ;)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m0XzAeD1tjo/UkLOi4VACiI/AAAAAAAAR5o/NC_4Wo2jQZM/s1600/800px-M60A1_Armored_Vehicle_Landing_Bridge.jpg

[Big Muddy]

Well, I'm not Bill Gates, either....but, you asked for recommendations, and you got them from both Cap and me....which happened to include the I-beam option, as well.

The rest is up to you....however, I already know what you are going to do....you are gonna drag some raggedy-azz trees down there, and use them for runners....then, you are gonna use nails to install the deck boards.

Then, in a couple of years, you will come on here, and make a post to bitch about, you had no idea that trees, used for bridge runners, rotted so quickly....and, that a poacher's atv fell off the sagging bridge, and broke his back....he sued you, and now owns your farm.

[Big Muddy]

BTW, do you not know of one single person, from whom you could borrow a 16 ft. utility trailer, to haul these telephone poles???

I mean, day'um near everybody down here, even the city-folk, have a 16 ft. utility trailer, sitting in their yard.

Since you've got all that hunting stuff up for sale, I'll tell you what I'll do....if you drive down here, I'll load the poles on my 16 ft. trailer, and strap them down, and have the trailer ready to go.

All you gotta do is hook it up to your vehicle, and drive away....then, when you get unloaded at your place, return the trailer to my lakehouse at Lake Chicot....that'll cut down on your return time, by over an hour, each way.

All I want in return is a VERY good deal on one of those pistolas....did I say VERY good deal??? ;)

[Captain]

Oh..........I don't know what a crepe myrtle is..............and I don't know what a heart cedar is..............sorry.

A heart cedar is a cedar that is almost all "red" inside. Very little white. Look at the butt cut of the cedar If you got more than a half inch of white before you got red it ain't a heart cedar. When laying on the ground (or as a fence post) the white part rots fast. The Red part will last a LONGTIME. a lot of "Yard grown" or open field grown cedars are mostly white because they grow so fast due to fertilizer etc and they keep limbs all the way to the ground. A woods grown cedar loose the lower limbs and grow very slowly and are usually mostly red inside, heart cedar. Some are so hard you have to drill into them to get a staple in them to hold wire.

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[BarryBobPosthole]

You need an Oklahoma County Commisioner in your club. He'd have a bridge built and a nice paved road in there in no time at all. and for free.

BKB

[Buckrub]

BTW, do you not know of one single person, from whom you could borrow a 16 ft. utility trailer, to haul these telephone poles???

I mean, day'um near everybody down here, even the city-folk, have a 16 ft. utility trailer, sitting in their yard.

Since you've got all that hunting stuff up for sale, I'll tell you what I'll do....if you drive down here, I'll load the poles on my 16 ft. trailer, and strap them down, and have the trailer ready to go.

All you gotta do is hook it up to your vehicle, and drive away....then, when you get unloaded at your place, return the trailer to my lakehouse at Lake Chicot....that'll cut down on your return time, by over an hour, each way.

All I want in return is a VERY good deal on one of those pistolas....did I say VERY good deal??? ;)

Ed, that's why I'm having the 'sale', to try and get a 16 foot trailer. Lots of money going out right now for certain "child assistance programs" and I still haven't heard what my taxes will be. But I can't get one now. I do know one guy that has one, but it's a single wheel model and if I tell him the weight that's going on it, he'll say 'no'. Which gun do you want and what is a 'good deal'?

Arty, I have one cedar down right now. I doubt it's a foot in diameter at the small end. I'll look.

Cappy, I dunno which I have, I'll go look when I can get outside later.

Bwana, will take a picture in next few days for you of the bag.

Posthole, this is the FARM.........not my club........just me there, ain't got no help.

[Big Muddy]

I forgot, but what town is nearest your farm???....

[Buckrub]

Um.........ha. Um............... town???

If you do Google, try Immanuel. I'm 500 yards from Immanuel. But that ain't a town, not sure it even has a road sign with that name on it. The mail comes from Almyra. The school district is DeWitt. The volunteer fire department is from Casscoe. But it's a ways from either of them.

[Buckrub]

I have no idea if this will work. Try this link:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3946578,-91.3279971,15z

not sure how much you'll have to zoom in. House is right (east side of) on Hwy 33 (also called Boston Lane, although I've never even heard that before). Needmore road hits it on the west, and Immanuel road to the east. It's barely south of where Needmore road hits Hwy 33, and about 500 yards south of Immanuel road. It is Immanuel road (gravel part way) that I have to take all the way around on my wheely, that this bridge would solve. Once you find the house location, look directly east. The land I hunt is literally at the intersection of Sunrise and Jennings road. Craziest thing, there is literally a street sign with both of those street names on it, right in front of our gate. Sure looks out of place out there in middle of nowhere. The land fronts Sunrise Road starting at that intersection and going west for two 40-acre tracts (80 acres). Bar-F is a guy south of the hunting area that runs cows.

Ha. OK, tried that link, and I think that works. Then you can zoom OUT and see how to get there.............if you wanted to.

[Big Muddy]

There is not a Sunrise Rd. on your map....I assume you mean Rising Sun Rd.

What is the physical address of your house, down there???

[Buckrub]

Dang. Yeah, Rising Sun.

2950 Highway 33 (might show up in Google as either city of Casscoe or Almyra)........

[Big Muddy]

Google Earth says Almyra.

[Buckrub]

OK. That's the mail route. Casscoe is closer, but Almyra is mailing address.

[Captain]

Heart cedar will last a lifetime. The other has little heart and will rot away in a couple of years. (At least in our par of the country anyway)

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[Buckrub]

Sure learned something there.

I just went in backyard and looked. I'd guess this one is closer to the 2nd picture. But it's more perfectly round as a pole..........but it's about 12" thick at bottom and maybe 6" at top, about 16 feet long.

[Thumper]

Notice the wide growth rings on the right image ... that's what you DON'T want.

[BarryBobPosthole]

So that old tree on the left has seen some hard times, eh Eddie?

BKB

[Big Muddy]

Yep, it's been around a while.

[Niner]

I'm a little late to the party. What is it you're trying to span Bucky? Ditch, creek, ??? How far across? And how deep?

We have a creek that needed "something" to allow wheelies, and tractors to get across. Prior owner of the property thought a big culvert pipe was the answer (evidently). They used about a 12ft length of culvert that had to be 3 ft diameter. They put the pipe in the creek and covered it with dirt. This creek normally runs about 3 to 6 inches deep, and the banks are about 8ft....I'd guess. Well.....when there's a big rain that creek can come out of its banks.....when we bought the place all that was left was the pipe about half full of sand up against one of the banks. Land bridge over creek prone to flooding = BAD IDEA.

We thought about building a bridge, but the span looked too wide to be economical to do.

When we had the fellow out building the lake, we ran the problem by him. He said he could fix it in a jiffy. Ran his (smallish) dozer down there and cut down the banks and made a crossover in about 20 - 30 mins. Later that week he brought in a load of rocks and fixed it so it wouldn't be a mud pit. This has worked great, and has been virtually zero maint so far.

[Niner]

2636

2637

2638

[Bwana]

The crossing that Niner just explained is referred to as a Texas Crossing and they work great where you have a shallow, low velocity depth of flow.

[HideHunter]

"Missouri Crossing" here. I took a combine with a 40 foot bean platform across one this fall.

[Buckrub]

Niner, this:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/Buck7088/Farm%20Pics/Ditch_zps781981db.jpeg (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/Buck7088/media/Farm%20Pics/Ditch_zps781981db.jpeg.html)

However, that is irrigation water. I am trying to find out if it ever gets way bigger than that. Also there is a big constant problem not 1,000 yards away from here with beaver dams. Lots I don't know yet. I have assumed it's THIS size all the time, but maybe it isn't.

Also, I think I'm making too big of a deal over this. It is not a requirement. I do NOT have to cross this ditch. I CAN go around it, it's just a long wheely ride in the winter.

If I can get something in place, I doubt it would be crossed more than 30 times a year...........

[Thumper]

To whom are you giving the finger? ;)

[Buckrub]

apparently the camera lens

[Bwana]

Looks like an easy place to install a Texas Crossing but would likely want to do it near the field edge so as to not interfere with the acreage unless that isn't a concern.

As for the thought that the creek doesn't get anymore flow than what is shown in the picture, I doubt that is the case unless it is perched above the surrounding land so that no additional inflows can enter the creek which is HIGHLY unlikely. Hard to tell from the picture but it almost appear that the dead vegetation in the bottom of the picture is trash deposited from higher flows. Again, am thinking the Texas Crossing is going to be the easiest, least costly, and least maintenance option.

[Buckrub]

It separates two agri fields.............both worked by our lessor. He will have to have some say in this. That's the missing piece right now. I think there are several ways to approach this......

The pic was taken just at some random spot. 200 yards behind it, is a marshy spot where it widens out (upstream). It DOES get more water when they are pumping irrigation water. I just don't know how much more.

If I get TO this spot, I have to start at the farmhouse and enter a field, and ride along the outer edge of a huge field, then get to this spot (or one close), cross this potential bridge, then ride along the grassy edge of the next field.........and finally enter a dirt road for the last 500 yards before the woods starts. These fields always have a grassy edge around them. You'd have to ask Ed why......but I'm glad they do.

If I could somehow get an aerial shot of this, it'd make more sense.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That finger is the most annoying thing I've seen today.

You truly are Joe Btfsplk

BKB

[Buckrub]

Bite me.

You clearly haven't seen yours or Thumps avatar pictures.

[Niner]

Yepper, IMHO I think your best bet is gonna be to get somebody with one of these out there and shave down them banks and make a crossing....If it was me, and it ain't, I'd forget about trying to build a bridge on a shoestring budget.

2644

Then again, if y'all have a good sized tractor with a Front-End Loader on it y'all might be able to DIY it.

The only drawback to this kindof crossing that I have found...at least on mine....is that we cannot get across to that area after/during a "frog strangler" rain storm as the water gets to about 3-4 ft deep and, as I mentioned above HAS come out of it's banks before. However that is not a REAL big problem as there's only about 5 -6 acres over there, including a 1 acre food plot and the "carport" that I keep my implements under.

The upside is the ONLY maintenance I've had to do is periodically use the FEL on my tractor to push away the sand deposited during "high tide" so to speak.

[BarryBobPosthole]

^^^^^Listen to this man. He speaks troof.

Just make a low water crossing that you can get across in a truck. And if your truck can't make it across then your truck and you are both pussies.

BKB

[Buckrub]

HELLO!!!

This is an irrigation ditch. Downstream is important!! Culvert is a possibility..........knocking down sides is impossible....and wouldn't last five days.

[Niner]

OK then.......next suggestion....

Sell the wheelie!!!

Buy one of these bad boys and swim across that there ditch!!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3zgLMR4H0No?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hell, it'll even fit in the back of your truck!

[Buckrub]

HAHA. Not sure I could get BOTH the front AND the back wheels wet at same time!!!

Plus, as soon as I hit Jennings Road, it's muddier and slicker than owl snot. That device would be on side of road, useless.

[Bwana]

I'm not following why a crossing wouldn't work but I trust you.

[Captain]

I'm not following why a crossing wouldn't work but I trust you.

Me either. The water will still run the ditch when needed. It's not like it's going to run up the slopes and spill out?????

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[Buckrub]

If I knock down the sides with some heavy machinery, and cross at low water, as soon as they start pumping irrigation water for 7 months a year, that cutout is history. It'll wash away, in a day or two. Plus, I STILL don't know how deep this water gets. The picture was taken after all harvest was done...........not a time when they are pumping and ditches are full..... Water is GOING to flow down this ditch, and the dirt is fine row-crop dirt. It won't hold anything like the sides of a washout would have to be.

But if it would work, I'm for sure not against it at all...............

[BarryBobPosthole]

You need a cattle guard bridge. A big ass cattle guard bridge with wing walls.

Or get one of those deals Thump posted.
BKB

[Buckrub]

Cattle guard has been thought of.................need to go to Farm and Home and price one.........IF it's big enough.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Is pole vaulting out of the question?
That works in all seasons.
BKB

[Buckrub]

Management type suggestion.

Yep.

[Niner]

Yep I'm not seeing how that wouldn't work either. My big creek runs 12 months of the year. The "rip rap" rocks keep the soil in place. At your farm the spaces between the rocks would fill in with dirt over time and lock them in place. I forget the size number of the rocks they used...they are about softball sized...and there's about a dump truck load of them up the slopes and in the creek.

Take a close look at the Niner pic. That crossing is just about the lowest point on The Farm, and the rocks haven't washed away yet. The creek turns into a raging torrent when there's a big rain...and the rocks are still in the creek bed....haven't washed away yet.

We drive the tractors and my golf buggy across there all the time.

Ask your farmer how deep that ditch runs when he's pumping water. Does he pump water during deer season?

If you'd like, I can take some pics of that crossing the next time I'm down there.

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[Captain]

If I knock down the sides with some heavy machinery, and cross at low water, as soon as they start pumping irrigation water for 7 months a year, that cutout is history. It'll wash away, in a day or two. Water is GOING to flow down this ditch, and the dirt is fine row-crop dirt. It won't hold anything like the sides of a washout would have to be. But if it would work, I'm for sure not against it at all...............

Why is it not washing it away now then?
How is it going to wash out the crossing? If you make that cut and put rip rap down it will NEVER wash out. Proof being is it ain't washed out for all the years the water been running through it without rip rap and it damn sure ain't gonna wash out with rip rap..

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[Buckrub]

Would rock not cost as much as poles??? I have no idea........

[Captain]

Would rock not cost as much as poles??? I have no idea........
Probably by the time you get a machine in there to push or dig it out and then a load of rock. There is not going to be much difference. But there will be a lot less maintenance to the crossing vs the bridge....

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[Captain]

Seriously, not being mean spirited I have your answer...
You need to go to the farmer that leases and row crops the land. Tell him you want to cross that ditch and about WHERE you want to cross it.

Tell him you want him to fix it so you can cross it. Either a cut out crossing, bridge or culvert pipe whichever is the cheapest to do.
Then tell him you will allow him the cost of fixing it off his next years lease payment when he completes it.

He has the equipment and can do it without a problem.
Then go home, relax Next time you think about it is when you drive across it.

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[Buckrub]

It is something I have already thought about. His brother (not too close, but not awful far away) has some heavy machinery. I was going to see if my guy would do it, if/when I get to talk to him about this whole thing.

In fact, what I think I'm going to do, is email him (his wife answers all emails, he never does, she's the 'manager') and include this picture, and tell them that I have been drawing this for some guys offering me suggestions for crossing this ditch......and see if he has any ideas on A) if it should be done and if not, why not, and B) if so, how would he suggest it be done so it's long lasting?

Then.........go from there.........and see if he might do it.

[Niner]

That is a capital idea, Cap'n!!!

Seriously Bucky, the crossing will be there forever and require a bare minimum of upkeep.

The bridge idea, while not bad, will need to be checked annually....for safety if for no other reason.

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[Captain]

It is something I have already thought about. His brother (not too close, but not awful far away) has some heavy machinery. I was going to see if my guy would do it, if/when I get to talk to him about this whole thing. In fact, what I think I'm going to do, is email him (his wife answers all emails, he never does, she's the 'manager') and include this picture, and tell them that I have been drawing this for some guys offering me suggestions for crossing this ditch......and see if he has any ideas on A) if it should be done and if not, why not, and B) if so, how would he suggest it be done so it's long lasting? Then.........go from there.........and see if he might do it.

Again not being mean spirited you are over complicating things....

Emailing, telling him you been talking to folks about how to do it, asking if it can be done, if not way, wanting his opinion on how to do it, getting his brother involved etc....

Stop! Listen.....

It CAN be done and still give him all the water he needs
All you need to do is this Meet the farmer there and put a stake in the ground at the location you want to cross the ditch.
Tell him to make it happen
Leave....
If and ONLY if he has any Input it will be the location where to cross not IF to cross. He may have some reason to want it differently than where you want it. That could be the only discussion to work out.

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[Big Muddy]

Cap's advice is the best I've seen on this entire thread....if the renter is worth a day'um, and wants to keep farming the property, he'll jump right on the project, and do it for free or little cost to you....and, he'll prolly have it finished, before you even show up to start pestering him. ;)

[Captain]

he'll prolly have it finished, before you even show up to start pestering him. ;)

Bucky rents the land to Jesus? ;)

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[Big Muddy]

Bucky rents the land to Jesus? ;)

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Dang you, Cap!!!....I just snorted coffee up thru my sinuses !!! ;)

[Captain]

:D

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