More Obamacare from a reality perspective

[Buckrub]

Which means, I got your FIRST hand Obamacare info rat cheer!

Just got back from Doctor. Yeah I have the flu...had to go get more medicine. Whew.

Anyway, it took 45 minutes for some 'nurse' to fill out everything about me, from scratch. Mind you, this is the same doctor I've seen for a zillion years. He has my whole file. I told her that and she said it didn't matter, it had to be entered from scratch, starting this last Monday. I asked why the "new system" couldn't just upload data from the old, and she laughed and said "Boy, I wish it would. It won't. Has to be entered manually all anew".

Yes, she had a list from my paper file of my medications, etc........and she used that.......so I didn't have to provide it all from scratch, but she still had to enter it.

Doc came in and I asked why the "new system" since Obamacare said he had to use a standardized computer for all patients, starting a year ago? He said he didn't know the 'why'......but Obamacare dictated that this new system be used, starting 2 days ago, and he has no choice. This is the same doc I tried to get in to see Monday and he had no openings. So I went with my wife to her doc, and found out about the flu. My doc apologized but said Monday was insane........they didn't leave that night till after 10:00 pm seeing patients, because it takes so long to use this new system the first time for all patients.

Meanwhile, my brother is sitting over there with some sickness, and he has the "Free Obamacare" package.........meaning, Arkansas voted to meet their requirements of providing insurance to the 'poor' by the state funding Medicaid for the lowest income 1/10th of the state's population. So, 250,000 people got free Medicaid as the answer to them having to buy insurance, when they knew they couldn't afford it at all.

So how does this help him, you ask? NONE! Not one doctor in town will take a new Medicare OR Medicaid patient. So every one of those 250,000 people who "got insurance" when they didn't have any before, are going to have either A) do without as usual since no doctor will take their insuance card, or B) GO TO THE ER!!

Now how did this fix anything?

This is a cluster, disaster, of the highest order.

[LJ3]

I don't have much insight in to those who gained insurance of some kind without having to spend money. Sounds like it ain't happening down your way. All I know for sure is (1) I lost my plan I wanted to keep; (b) My rates and deductibles increased to the point where I have to postpone some medical care because I can't afford it right now; and (iii) My coverage decreased.

Yay. Just... fuckin' yay.

[Buckrub]

While the nurse was taking my info, I was talking to her.....and she said that she has so many horror stories in just the last few months with their patients (this is a GP who serves a ton of low income folks, as well as many others), that she's amazed that folks are not in the streets marching in protest.

The number of folks who are in your boat........and I personally know quite a few myself.........and the ones who got free but worthless insurance handed to them as a solution........are the squeaky wheels. I don't know if they outnumber the ones who stayed on a big corporate Group Plan that probably didn't change (but which WILL change soon), or not..........but their plight is sad indeed.

In the meantime, those of us who are simply trying to get into see a doctor just want all this to go away. Jeannie asked her doc on Monday if he would take a new Medicare patient........and he said "Oh, no......not for a while. It will be at least October before I even catch up to what's on my plate now". I have medicare and medicare supplement and Part D....... and Part D premium skyrocketed, to the Stratosphere.........Supplement didn't change in premium, but they never pay anything anyway (they won't pay for anything that Medicare denies!!! Some supplement!).....and Medicare went up. Part D is the killer. I'm on $45,000 a year worth of retail medicine........and the gap between what insurance covers and what I'm out of pocket on.........is closing and closing fast!

I've said it since day one........this is a disaster.

Know the worst part?????? The worst part is that the guts of Obamacare aren't even in effect!! He has delayed, postponed, or eliminated........by dictatorial fiat....the guts of most of the law. Heck, 'we' aren't even having to abide by most of it. But it's coming............ it either has to be implemented entirely, or done away with. One or 'tother.

[Thumper]

Well, we "thought" we were gonna slide. Of course, I have VA and it hasn't affected me in the least. BUT ... Lynn's (previously) excellent plan through work? Well .... I don't need to type it ... I'll just cut & paste Len's post as if Lynn were posting this ......


All I know for sure is (1) I lost my plan I wanted to keep; (b) My rates and deductibles increased to the point where I have to postpone some medical care because I can't afford it right now; and (iii) My coverage decreased.

A month or so ago, she went in to pick up a (much needed) prescription and they handed her a bill for $800-$900 (can't remember the persact amount). Normally it would have cost her $15.00. When she told them she has insurance and they have the info on file, they told her, "That IS with the insurance!" She told them to keep it, then turned and walked out without her Rx.

[Arty]

My family (all under my coverage) went from $15 copays and $4 prescriptions and ANY medical procedure costing us $100 out of pocket ..... To basically what our insurance covers is if one of us needs a leg amputated it'll only cost us $8,250 cause that's our max out of pocket for the year.

[Buckrub]

I can't figure out who this helped.............if the goal is "Insure everyone", then it failed because the insurance "everyone" got is worthless, no one takes it.

If the goal is reducing costs, clearly that's a bust, of the highest order.

It got rid of some insurance companies. maybe that was the goal. I don't know of another one that worked. If so, what is it???

[johnboy]

I'm struggling to understand why it has and continues to be so difficult for America and many Americans to accept and implement a national health care system that actually works. It not like this is a new concept and you are breaking new ground when you consider that almost every developed nation in the world already has something in place. Are all systems perfect? Not on your life, including our own up here in the Great White North BUT I would much rather suffer the occasional minor issue than go through what so many of you seem to be going through right now. Our system is not perfect but it sure works pretty well for most of us most of the time and I think that's the most you can ask.

Not trying to be a smart ass or anything but what is the REAL problem with a universal health care system in America when it seems to work for so many other countries?

[Thumper]

Arty, that's similar to what Lynn's "new" plan is. Her office visits used to be $15 for regular doctor visits and $25 for a specialist. Rx's were all $15. Emergency and regular hospital visits were minimal (don't remember the exact amount as we never had to use it). Now, she has to pay all medical costs until she reaches an annual cap of $9500.00 (?) ... THEN the insurance kicks in and there's a co-pay. We're still trying to figure out exactly what her coverage is now as it's MUCH more complicated than before.

[Buckrub]

Johnboy:

-Choice.

-Not waiting the times that you guys wait for tests and procedures.

-Being able to make my decisions, with my doctor, on what care I get.......not what some inefficient agency says I can have.

That's my takeout on it..........maybe others have differing opinions.

[johnboy]

Bucksnort:

Choice - I can go to any Doctor I choose. No limitations there.

Wait times are usually for elective surgery's or procedures. If you need to have something corrected that is life threatening, you are top of the list with no waiting usually.

There is no 'agency' that decides what treatment I get. It's between my Doctor and myself, nobody else.

I'm still confuseled but what I think I see happening is a half assed plan forced forward by people that really don't know (or care) what they are doing and implemented by a bunch incompetents. Just my take, maybe I'm wrong.

I sure hope this works out better than it seems to have begun.

[Thumper]

I don't know for sure Johnboy, this is all new to me. I WILL say one thing ... we have a bazillion Canadian snowbirds (mostly Quebec and Ontario) down here every winter and when I had my business, I dealt with hundreds of them on a personal basis. I couldn't tell you how many times I heard them mention that they were close to the border and came to the U.S. for their medical care. I didn't really understand it and remember coming home one evening and researching the reason on the internet. I don't remember which sites I read at that time, but I just did a quick Google search and this 2012 article is the first thing that popped up (I didn't bother to read any more).

Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011

A Canadian study released Wednesday found that many provinces in our neighbor to the north have seen patients fleeing the country and opting for medical treatment in the United States.

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.

Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment — the longest they have ever recorded.

In 2011, Canadians enrolled in the nation’s government-dominated health service waited long periods of time for an estimated 941,321 procedures. As many as 2.8 percent of Canadians were waiting for treatment at any given time, according to the Institute.

“In some cases, these patients needed to leave Canada due to a lack of available resources or a lack of appropriate procedure/technology,” according to the Institute. “In others, their departure will have been driven by a desire to return more quickly to their lives, to seek out superior quality care, or perhaps to save their own lives or avoid the risk of disability.”

Increases in the number of patients leaving Canada for treatment were seen in seven of the ten Canadian provinces: British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

“Some of these patients will have been sent out of country by the public health care system due to a lack of available resources or the fact that some procedures or equipment are not provided
in their home jurisdiction,” the report concluded.

“Others will have chosen to leave Canada in response to concerns about quality … to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death … or simply to avoid delay.”

Canada’s median wait time for treatment after consultation with a specialist also increased in 2011, from 9.3 weeks to 9.5 weeks. The Fraser Institute’s report concluded that the nation’s doctors don’t like the status quo any more than their patients..

“Physicians themselves believe that Canadians wait nearly 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically ‘reasonable’ for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist,” according to the report. (RELATED: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare, survey finds)

Each year the Institute conducts a survey asking doctors across 12 major medical specialties in Canada what percentage of their patients have received non-emergency care outside of Canada in the previous 12 months. In 2011, approximately one percent of all Canadian patients were estimated to have received non-emergency care outside their home country.

[johnboy]

Jim, I can only talk from my personal experience and that of my friends and aquaintences but I know no one that has had to leave the country to have a medical issue treated. No one. Perhaps they are counting all the elective procedures like face (boob, butt or whatever) lifts and all the other cosmetic surgerys that are NOT covered by the system. Don't know.

Again from a personal perspective, I'm pretty satisfied with our system.

[Buckrub]

Johnboy........

You need to report what the Canadian national average wait time is for these procedures:

Rotator cuff shoulder surgery
Knee replacement surgery
Hip replacement surgery
Stent insertion without a heart attack
Radiation Oncology
Heart Bypass

These aren't "boob jobs". they are not life THREATENING, but they are Quality of Life Threatening.

If the Canadian system is not 10X more difficult to get those done on YOUR choice of timetable, I'll eat my hat. And there are probably 1,000 more such items that could be added to the list.

Also,
Report how many MRI machines are in All of Canada?
PET Machines?

How many MRI tests are done PER CAPITA in Canada annually vs. US?

[Chicken Dinner]

In all honesty, what we got was a compromise between what Obama asked for and what a coalition if legiscritters were willing to accept. I truly believe the sole point us something so bad that people will finally accept truly nationalized healthcare.

[Buckrub]

No doubt.

FTR, there are about 222 MRI machines in Canada, and about 10,000 in the US. Little old me, has a buddy in Deer Camp, that sells them. He sells in Arkansas, and surrounding areas. He is filthy rich from it, but he has placed hundreds upon hundreds just in our little neck of the woods.

I just wonder WHY they want "truly nationalized healthcare"??? What is the impetus for wanting such a thing??

We've killed a might fine goose here.............and didn't even get one egg..........

[Buckrub]

Oh, and Johnboy.......(you know I love ya)

When you finish answering my questions above, answer this:

What does it cost you on a per capita basis for your health care? Include all taxes, premiums, copays, deductibles, costs, everything. If a medicine is subsidized, include the real cost. Then compare it to what we had 5 years ago. Then compare both those two numbers to what we have now.

We had a great great and wonderful golden goose which the Liberals hated to the max............solely because "Big Insurance" and "Big Oil" were, and are, the Devil Incarnate........never mind the benefits they gave us for their 'obscene' profits!! Now we replaced obscene profits with obscene taxes and .........well, duh!!!

[Penguin]

In all honesty, what we got was a compromise between what Obama asked for and what a coalition if legiscritters were willing to accept. I truly believe the sole point us something so bad that people will finally accept truly nationalized healthcare.

I don't believe it was the goal Hank, but it might be the way it turns out.

Truth is our healthcare system sucks. It really does. And the new stuff has only added more suckage. It didn't ruin a good system it merely made a terrible system worse. Our healthcare costs an inordinate amount, it doesn't provide as good off outcomes (in total) as many other less costly systems, and (to my mind worst of all) we don't mandate that everyone pays ~something~.

We are overrun with market failures, monopolistic practices, and freeloaders. It needs to change.

We don't have a free market in health care. We'll never have one, the insurers and trade groups are too powerful. It is time to 'fess up and junk the whole thing. Pick a nationalized system and move on. This lunacy is bankrupting us.

Will

[johnboy]

Bucky, I really can't be bothered with all the facts, figures, stats and lies that fly around when health care is discussed. All I know is that I like our system and it seems to work pretty well for most Canadians, most of the time. My personal experiences with Doctors and hospitals have been positive and I really have no complaints. As I said before, no system is perfect but I know that most Canadians would never trade what we have for what you have or had. No way, no chance, never.

My original post (I knew I shoulda stayed out of this) expressed my difficulty understanding how your new system could be such a mess (according to you) when there were so many models in place around the world that seem to work just fine. Did no one do a little research to cherry pick the best ideas from all those systems?

Oh yeah, I did look up one statistic - average life expectancy worldwide. Canada is in 12th place at 82.5 years and the US of A is 35th at 79.8 years. I guess we must be doing something right.

[Buckrub]

You aren't doing anything particularly wrong. And if you, and other citizens, like it, then hey.............that's great.

But your system results in way too long of a wait period and unknowns for choices I want to make about what care I need......not what a government says I need.

It's that simple.

I don't care who funds it. I'd be all for a National Health Care System. But I want it to run like this...........I get 100% of every procedure, every drug, every doc visit, every hospital fee, that I CHOOSE to have, and no deductibles, no copays, no cost to me..........I pay for it in 'taxes' of whatever kind. Just figure out what it is, and bill me that amount. I'd vote for it in a minute.

But when the Government wants to run it, they also want it to be too restrictive. No thanks!

[Buckrub]

Rats are leaving the ship. Even the supporters are bailing out. This from a Liberal website.

You have till Monday to sign up. Oh wait. He moved that again, didn't he. Oh well.

http://news.msn.com/us/poll-obama-health-law-fails-to-gain-support