WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buckrub]

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-football/story/federal-agency-gives-college-football-players-at-northwestern-university-right-unionize-032614

[Buckrub]

Apparently no one frequents this Board anymore.

OK. Later!!!

[LW]

That is a big wow.

[LJ3]

I'm still here but I'm a follower, not a leader :)

How the hell does a student make a case for being an employee of the school? that makes no logical sense at all to me.

[Buckrub]

Really??

Makes perfect sense to me.

NCAA makes BILLIONS X MUCHO off of these kids. They get.......room and board and tuition. They aren't allowed to have a part time job whatsoever. They get no money allowances at all. They're used. Coaches make millions a year. There are dozens of coaches at each school that make $100K to $500K a year to boot. Merchandise sales, with the 'students' pictures and likenesses. They get nothing.

Seem fair?

[Thumper]

Can't you consider it part of their "education"? Take a medical student ... he pays through the nose for his education ... he does his internship with no pay ... but the pay-off is once he gets that degree and leaves school.

Isn't a ball player doing the same thing essentially? He's most likely going to school on a scholarship so his education is paid for. He does his internship with no pay (as a doctor would serve his internship with no pay) ... UNTIL he is "fully educated" and is free to make the big bucks.

Compare it with Olympic athletes ... they work their asses off, pay through the nose for coaches and training, but are not allowed to draw a paycheck. BUT ... do well in the Olympics and they get their face planted on the front of a Wheaties box and can retire in their 20's.

I'd say it's a trade-off and the cost of an "education".

[Captain]

The Students must be getting SOMETHING out if it. Like maybe a education, and perhaps a step up to pro ball making zillion dollars..... Hum, if they are all being used then why are so many lining up to be used? Seems like there is no shortage of them wanting that deal....

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Thumper]

Ha! Same persact time-stamp! Great minds think alike. :D

[Captain]

Ditto! Just shows who the real thinkers are around this place... :D

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm no fan of Unions, but the NCAA is going to reap what it sows. They've chased the almighty dollar on the backs if these kids and gotten obscenely rich doing it. Some of these basketball teams will play 40 games - half an NBA season. Florida State played 14 games this year - just a couple if years ago that was a full NFL season. I love watching college sports even more than pro, but this god forsaken conference realignment had opened my eyes.

[Buckrub]

All serfs tend the fields. It's the only fields they can tend.

Fair is fair. I love the current system, as a spectator. I've loved it for years. I will probably miss it greatly. It has served some things very well.

BUT......

Cappy's statements make perfect sense.......if you are a spectator. But if you are a Gladiator, then they don't ring so true. We have not been Gladiators. We speak only as spectators. It's our only perspective.

The question is not whether the Gladiators have gotten Nothing Vs. Anything. For SURE, they have gotten Something! If the argument is "Well, they got something out of this" then that's just simply invalid, and insufficient. Yes, they have. They got an education. That's good stuff. They deserved that.

But that is not the question, is it?

The question is..........Did they get enough? Did they get a fair return for what they produced?

No. Resounding answer for any rational sentient being has to be "No. No they did not".

Maybe those that go Pro and sign for a zillion should pay the system back. But they are less than 1%. Way less. What about the 90 and 9? Should they labor for free simply because there is a monopoly? I hate Unions...........because they reward incompetence. But my answer is always "Let them go found their own company". To me, that's a fair alternative. But in this case, an 18 y/o kid can't go found his own college.

I may end up being wrong on this............but I will side with the kids from Northwestern.

[Buckrub]

On a side note......and this is ALMOST humorous.........

Since most Southern schools are in Right-To-Work states, their players probably can't unionize validly.

Guess what that means? Northwestern may be hiring Nick Saban in another year or two, that's what!! And Posthole will be happy (for a few minutes) while he contemplates that the SEC will give way to the Big East and the MidAmerican Conferences! Woo Hoo. Who woulda thunk it?

[Buckrub]

Oh yeah. One other thing.

Legally, goodbye to Title IX!!!

No way women's sports can negotiate a labor contract equal to men's football! Sayonara.

[Niner]

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-football/story/federal-agency-gives-college-football-players-at-northwestern-university-right-unionize-032614

(A LITTLE BLIND LINK FIX FOR YA, BUCKY......)
CHICAGO -- In a stunning ruling that could revolutionize a college sports industry worth billions of dollars and have dramatic repercussions at schools coast to coast, a federal agency said Wednesday that football players at Northwestern University can create the nation's first union of college athletes.

The decision by a regional director of the National Labor Relations Board answered the question at the heart of the debate over the unionization bid: Are football players who receive full scholarships to the Big Ten school considered employees under federal law, thereby allowing them to unionize?

Peter Sung Ohr, the NLRB regional director, said in a 24-page decision that the players "fall squarely" within the broad definition of employee.

Pro-union activists cheered as they learned of the ruling.

"It's like preparing so long for a big game and then when you win -- it is pure joy," said former UCLA linebacker Ramogi Huma, the designated president of Northwestern's would-be football players' union............(click Bucky's blink link for more)

[quercus alba]

I heard on the radio that the powers that be at Northwestern are considering dropping D1 football if this goes through. I can sympathize with both sides but I don't think I'll like what this does to college sports. What's next, students that flunk out suing because as a "customer paying for a service" they are unsatisfied and want a refund?

[LJ3]

I need Willie to tell me what I think about this :) He usually articulates thoughts I didn't even realize I had until he eloquently spills his wisdom :)

[Thumper]

Man-o-man! What's the world coming to? Lemme get this straight ... isn't school meant to provide an EDUCATION? Ya' take some rocks-for-brains kid off the street who can throw a ball, stuff a scholarship in his pocket, he majors in underwater basket-weaving so he's essentially a "student ... then he spends 90% of his school time at recess on the playground. THEN he wants to be PAID for it? Sheeesh! I don't get it.

I tagged along to a HIGH SCHOOL football game a while back to watch my buddy's kid (whom I watched grow up) play ball. I was charged $6.00 admission, then bought some over-priced goodies at the concession stand. SOMEBODY is making money there. Should h/s players be paid? Where do you draw the line?

When will the college bands start demanding rock-star pay?

[LJ3]

Just because someone is making money from an activity people are participating in does not mean those people have a claim to the money being made if they are there of their own free will. Don't like it? don't play. This seems like anti-capitalist looting is I put my Libertarian Objectivist hat on :)

[Chicken Dinner]

I heard this morning that the ruling only applies to the 17 private universities that play D1 football. Basically, the rules are different for public universities as they are generally instrumentalities of the state. Not sure about "Right to Work". I'm no expert, but I thought that meant that they couldn't require you to join a Union adn not that others couldn't unionize. This ruling is also from some guy at the NRLB and that NW would appeal. I think this thing is a long way from over.

[Buckrub]

Agree with Hank. My comments are "possibilities" only.....but interesting to contemplate.

Thump, the truth is, NCAA athletes have higher average GPA's than the normal student body at almost every institution in the NCAA. Sorry to burst your bubble. Yeah, some are dumber than rocks. Odd, but they seem to be a high percentage of the good players, and thus give the most stupid interviews. And Northwestern football players are not the same as Alabama football players. Just sayin'.......

I would also like to hear Willie's take on this.

[Thumper]

So what it all boils down to is ... school is not a learning institution if you're a ball player ... it's a "job". Am I understanding this correctly?

I still looks at school ball players at "interns". The school pays a coach just as they pay a "teacher". A "teacher" instructs students so they can learn to go out on their own and make a living. The coach essentially teaches these kids to play ball so that they can go out on their own and make a living. What am I missing here?

I have a friend who's son majored in "Communications" or sumpin' like that. Part of his "classroom training" was serving as an intern at a local radio station. The radio station (nor the school) paid him for this service although it really was a "job". Once he graduated, the radio station hired him for a full-time position and he is now developing a career in radio. Isn't that what school is all about? Who gives a rat's ass if you're a radio station intern or a frigging ball player. I really fail to see the difference here.

[Thumper]

Thump, the truth is, NCAA athletes have higher average GPA's than the normal student body at almost every institution in the NCAA. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Like I said above, that's not all that hard to do when your major is under-water basket weaving and your GPA is being compared to med students. :D

[Buckrub]

Still invalid. NCAA athletes have, on average, the same difficulty of majors as the general population, if not higher. Your belief is a myth.

[Thumper]

No, my belief is NOT a myth ... my belief is simply a shit-disturber vehicle. :D

The point is ... IMHO ... the act of students unionizing and demanding to be paid to play ball at school is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[quercus alba]

I think Barak Obama as president is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. No wait, that's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard.......my bad

[Buckrub]

Well, makes sense to me.

Whatever.

[Buckrub]

Um, what made sense to me was NOT QA's post. !!!

And if Posthole doesn't weigh in on this, he's truly "on vacation" (ifyouknowwhatImeanandIthinkthatyoudo)............ . :)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, since you asked......I think the NFL needs a developmental league like baseball. As long as universities are the main D league for professional teams, then I think the players have a valid point. If there was a D league then those players that don't want a college education can go right to the farms just like happens in baseball and to an extent that's what hapens in the NBA. Getting an education for a lot of the players that have NFL talent out of high school is largely a sham. For the 99% of the others it isn't, its a way to get an education paid for. So create a legitimate way for the players with talent to get enter the process without having to play in a BCS bowl to get the exposure and you've solved a big part of the problem.

Secondly, scrap the NCAA and the sham that it is and replace it with a true amateur athletic governing body that's about education and academics and not about making big money bigger.

BKB

[Penguin]

I need Willie to tell me what I think about this :) He usually articulates thoughts I didn't even realize I had until he eloquently spills his wisdom :)

Not sure I can do that this time Len.... truth is this one hits close to home with me. Not sure how I feel yet.

I am one of the biggest college football fans alive. I really am. And given the system (a big caveat) I don't feel the players are being fairly treated. It isn't right that you have young men being exploited with byzantine NCAA rules while coaching staffs and colleges reap billions from their labor.

BUT, this system should not exist in the first place.

This is a direct result of the NCAA allowing itself to be a minor league for the NFL. In turn you might blame DC for granting a de facto monopoly charter to professional sports. I wouldn't fault you if you did. I lean that way myself. But the fact remains that THIS system is a fraud. You have fraudulent students pursuing pro careers in a fraudulent system. This isn't what colleges and universities are for and it ain't what college sports are for.

To truly clean up the system and allow it to regain some integrity I think this issue has to be addressed. And doing that means that the NFL is going to have to get off its lazy ass and institute a minor league. You've got to have college football return to being a sport played by young men who are students first and football players second. Kids who aren't capable of passing a rigorous college curriculum shouldn't be forced to fake it in an attempt to become pro athletes.

So in the end I don't disagree with the courts. These young men are being exploited in an unfair system. I don't fault them for telling it like it is. But the truth is the system needs changed. The answer may not be trying to give them a larger share of a fraudulent pie. It may be to returning college sports to what they were intended instead of a bargain bin version of a minor league for pro sports.

Will

[Buckrub]

Yep. Same old purty mouth.

Here's how I'd fix it (AFTER they establish a minor league that the NFL funds)..............I'd make all HS kids declare for the 'draft' of scholarships. Then I'd go round robin, and let the schools draw out a name at random. Studley Jones from New Orleans goes to.........U OF MIAMI.......next, next, next....till done. Random.

Kids don't like that? Fine, go to the new Minor League.

Then, don't pay 'em.

Next, each kid gets offered either a 1, 2, 3, or 4 year scholarship, based on his negotiations with the school that drew his name out. Whatever he/they think best. I'm sure the STUDS will want to go 1 year, renewable. If they can't agree and sign, they can go to the Minor League, the Major League, or Grocery Sacker, whatever they can qualify for. The borderline players will request, and probably be offered, 4 year scholarships. But the kicker is, whatever you sign for, YOU ARE UNDER CONTRACT TILL THE END.

If your contract is for less than the full 4 year term, you can renegotiate at the end of the contract. You might get zero, or another 3 years, or anything in between in your 2nd or 3rd contract. That's your risk.

Players signing for 4 years get a guarantee of a diploma regardless of how long it takes, subject to kids making the grades each semester.

Problem solved.