Hey Posthole!

[Captain]

Are you all shook up this morning?

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis?

BKB

[Thumper]

Duh ... P-hole hasn't had his morning cup of coffee yet. It's all that dang fracking I tell ya'! ;)

At least eight quakes have rattled neighborhoods and nerves across Oklahoma.

http://www.news9.com/story/25210835/early-morning-earthquake-swarm-shakes-oklahoma

[BarryBobPosthole]

Oh, that's old news. I don't dare mention it on Goodhunting because it might be construed as something liberal and slamming the oil industry. We've already set a record this year with the number of earthquakes and its only April. Its all a coincidence though.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Nothing to see here - move along...

[Buckrub]

Why do you always slam Big Oil and not Big Telecom??

Ok, wait......

never mind.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Last time I checked Big Telecom never caused earthquakes in my home state.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Well they do in many places!!!!! :)

[Buckrub]

Wait.

The answer was supposed to be "Neither does Big Oil"...........

I think...

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm just bitter. Horizontal drilling and fracking is booming in Oklahoma and that's when the earthquakes started, when that really took off. We're charging a 1% gross production tax on horizontal drilling and our teachers haven't gotten a raise in seven years and we're 49th in school funding per pupil. North Dakota is charging 11% and is investing in their education system and it'll pay off. When even a paltry raise in gross production taxes was proposed the Republicans flocked to the rescue and said we'd lose the jobs created bythe oil industry and they'd go somewhere else. As if the shale formations are everywhere. It pisses me off.

BKB

[Herb2]

Barry,

The first oil well that was fracture treated was in Grant County, Kansas. The treatment occurred in 1949. Directional drilling, which includes horizontal drilling, was also fairly common (in certain specific conditions, such as the Wilmington Oil Field in California ) by the 1940s.

In my career, I have designed, conducted, witnessed or permitted between 8000 and 10000 fracture treatments. Not one of those has caused measurable earthquakes. In fact, unless there has been new data in the last couple of years, there is not evidence that fracture treating, anywhere in the world, has caused a single earthquake.

The research that has lead to you incorrect conclusion in based, not on fracture treating, but on the disposal of salt water produced along with the oil and gas. In one case, in Youngstown, Ohio, one single disposal well took over 100,000 cubic meters of water in about 18 months. This well was completed in what was essential solid rock; less than 1% porosity. The well also intersected a fault in the injection interval. The water forced the fault faces apart, which then allowed excess movement; AKA earthquakes.

The logical train of though tying earthquake to fracture treating goes (1) earthquakes were facilitated by injecting brine into fault zones; (2) the brine needed disposal because we produced it along with oil and gas; (3) we produced oil and gas from wells that have been fracture treated. ERGO fracture treatments caused earthquakes.

Let's expand this a couple of more steps: (A) we produce more oil and gas because people desire to use more; (B) some of that petroleum is used by people who burn fuel to go fishing. Eureka! We finally reached the correct conclusion; those selfish, ignorant fishermen caused the earthquakes.

This last is, of course. tongue in cheek, but it demonstrates the type of analysis often quoted by anti-petroleum activists.

But it does suggest a viable means for individuals to protest; simply cut petroleum based fuels.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Herb, the water injection is part of the process is it not. I don't care if its Calgon the're injecting, its a part of the process they use. I know when fracking started beause I have researched it. I also inow that the oil business people are lying when they say that the number of earthquakes we're having is strictly a 'coincidence'. If its not caused by something in the horizontal drilling and fracking process, then pray tell me what it is. And don't try to tell me coincidence. Ad also don't try to tell me the problem is with the consumer and not the producer in this case.

BKB

BKB

[Thumper]

I will! I will!

It's all a coincidence.

The problem is with the consumer, not the producer.

There. Anything else while I'm at it? :stirthepot

[Captain]

Ah... consumer do drive producers
No consumers no need....

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[Thumper]

Kinda like the drug trade huh? I will say, oil is a "drug" in this country.

[LJ3]

I'm curious BBP. When did the water injection part of the process begin? Is there a direct correlation of dates when water injection began and earthquakes became more frequent?

[LJ3]

Ah... consumer do drive producers
No consumers no need....

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Yes but blaming consumers for the practices of a producers is one of the reason conservatives, big corporations and capitalism leave a bad taste in lots of people's mouths.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I have no problem with oil companies drilling in Oklahoma. I just think the stae should get their fair share out of it.
One per cent was an incentivized tax rate to attract those companies to do their exploration here when that sort of incentive was needed and much of of the technology was new. An incentivized tax rate isn't needed now. We charge much lessthan our neighbor states.

And to say that injecting waste water from fracking, which is the part that causes the earthquakes, isn't part of the fracking process is just stupid. They wouldn't be doing it if they weten't fracking in the first damned place. The last shoe hasn't dropped on this by a long stretch. The earthquakes aren't causing a lot of property damage now, but when they do, folks will pay attention. And it ain't just water they're injecting in these wells, its incredibly toxic stuff. That's why its going into deep injection wells.
Believe whatever the hell you want to. I could give a shit.

BKB

[LJ3]

That's a generalized statement from a fired up redneck Okie. I'm looking for dates that correlate the two things. I know he knows them, he was prolly just knee deep in clear likker.

[Thumper]

Believe whatever the hell you want to. I could give a shit.BKB

Uh oh! That's how P-hole sounds just before he buys a new truck. Ya' think he's looking at boats now? :stirthepot

[BarryBobPosthole]

Didn't see your post Len. Here's a link that has some information on timing. Its nekkid.

BKB

http://www.thenation.com/blog/178449/whats-causing-huge-spike-earthquakes-oklahoma#

[BarryBobPosthole]

Oh, and here's another list of places in the world that just don't understand the science, Herb. The collective dumbasses probably also believe that its the meltdown of the cores in the Fukishima reactors that's the problem when in reality the pollution is actually coming from the water they use to cool them down and keep them from melting through the center of the dad gum earth.

Arkansas, by the way Bucky, also banned it around where you live. They're dumbasses too. No wait, they didn't ban fracking, they banned the injection of wastewater into wells. There's probably a shitload of fracking going on since there's no harm caused by fracking at all. Science proves it.



http://keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-fracking/

BKB

[Buckrub]

I hate oil. AND fuel. I wish they'd quit drilling and quit refining, totally. Messing up stuff! Ugh. We don't need no stinking oil. Everyone that hates it so, needs to stop using it, and I'm stopping today!!! I hate the stuff!!

(We cuss farmers with our mouth full, and 'big oil' with our tanks full). And that's all I got to say about that!

[BarryBobPosthole]

It prolly is because that's all you ever friggin say on the topic. And that's about the dumbest response I've ever heard. I said at the beginning I wasn't against drilling for oil in Oklahoma. I live in an oil rich state for chrissakes. But it needs to be done responsibly. It ain't being done responsibly now. Its a free for all. and for a lousy 1 per cent.

BKB

[Captain]

It prolly is because that's all you ever friggin say on the topic. And that's about the dumbest response I've ever heard. I said at the beginning I wasn't against drilling for oil in Oklahoma. I live in an oil rich state for chrissakes. But it needs to be done responsibly. It ain't being done responsibly now. Its a free for all. and for a lousy 1 per cent. BKB

Best response on this thread....

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[Thumper]

I wasn't against drilling for oil in Oklahoma. I live in an oil rich state for chrissakes. But it needs to be done responsibly. It ain't being done responsibly now. Its a free for all. and for a lousy 1 per cent.BKB

So, it would be okay at say .... the NoDak rate of 11%? Especially if a good portion went to teachers? :poke

[Buckrub]

It's kinda funny to me to hear someone tell me "that's all you say on this topic".

Whatever. Drill, don't drill, whatever. Arkansas is awful at 'severance tax' too.......worst in the world for gas and timber, of which we have an abundance. But I guess my main priority is not "how can I benefit the government" from thinking on these topics...........

[BarryBobPosthole]

Thump, I don't know if 11% is the right number or not. That works for North Dakota, it may not work for Oklahoma. I kindof think 4 or 5% is about right for Oklahoma because that's what neighboring states in teh region charge. Some are as high a 7% but I don't think it should be necessarily that high unless it generates an expense for the state. Whatever tax revenue that comes in ought to be to responsibly manage injection wells (and thus FRACKING HERB). There's 10,000 of them in my state and that was as of 2010. They're injecting hundreds of millions of gallons of contaminated and in some cases radioactive salt water in the ground in Oklahoma EVERY MONTH. http://www.ogs.ou.edu/MEETINGS/Presentations/MSARB12/MURRAY.pdf
The rest needs to go into the general tax fund and schools need to be funded appropriately from that. I don't subscribe to the theory that you tie school funding to industry any more than you'd tie it to the lottery. That's just a bald faced lie and is embarassing. It never ever works out the way its said it will when it's proposed.

Anyway, We're doing a lot of stuff at a very high rate in my state and we don't have any kind of consensus on what the consequences are. Herb can blather and Bucky can blow, but that's the truth of it. And we need to slow down and make the industry pay for getting the answers before we commit to doing it at any more volume. that's like driving down the interstate with blinders on if you ask me. But nobody did.

BKB


And Herb, from today's Tulsa World. I know there's a lot people that are probably smarter than Ohio geologists. But lots of folks are coming to different conclusions than you have about fracking and earthquakes.

Ohio geologists link small quakes to fracking

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Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:00 am | Updated: 6:28 am, Sat Apr 12, 2014.

By AP Wire Service | 0 comments

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Geologists in Ohio have for the first time linked earthquakes in a geologic formation deep under the Appalachians to hydraulic fracturing, leading the state to issue new permit conditions Friday in certain areas that are among the nation's strictest.

A state investigation of five small tremors last month in the Youngstown area, in the Appalachian foothills, found the injection of sand and water that accompanies hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in the Utica Shale may have increased pressure on a small, unknown fault, said State Oil & Gas Chief Rick Simmers. He called the link "probable."

While earlier studies had linked earthquakes in the same region to deep-injection wells used for disposal of fracking wastewater, this marks the first time tremors in the region have been tied directly to fracking, Simmers said. The five seismic events in March couldn't be easily felt by people.

The oil and gas drilling boom targets widely different rock formations around the nation, so the Ohio findings may not have much relevance to other areas other than perhaps influencing public perception of fracking's safety. The types of quakes connected to the industry are generally small.

Gerry Baker, associate executive director of the Interstate Oil and Gas Commission, said state regulators across the nation will study the Ohio case for any implications for the drilling industry. A consortium of states has already begun discussions.

Fracking involves pumping huge volumes of water, sand and chemicals underground.

[Buckrub]

I ain't blowing, but there's blowing going on.

I never said don't study anything. I said it's hypocritical to fill your tank and whine about the way it's done. And it surely does seem to me that A) you believe I have NO problem with fracking whatsoever, which is a mind reading assumption on your part, and B) you say it needs study, but you are just as much against it, it seems to me, as you THINK that I'm for it. If one is bad without study, why is not the other?

Why the edge to all these discussions, also? Stab, jab, dance, and whistle.

I'm going east. See y'all.

[johnboy]

One of the biggest consequences of fracking, no matter where it is happening, is the contamination of groundwater. When people can ignite the water coming from their taps because it is so contaminated with natural gas as a result of fracking then, Houston, we have a problem! I suggest watching a documentary called Gasland if you want to see the impact of fracking.

We are seeing the same headlong rush to exploit our oil and gas up here with little or no regard for the future. Get it all out of the ground as fast and as cheaply as possible and to hell with the damage that our grandkids will have to deal with. Shame on us!

[Buckrub]

Posthole, my last.........

if you are NOT against drilling, how do you propose to get the oil out of the ground that is embedded in shale, etc? Do you advocate just leaving it there rather than fracking it loose? Or do you just want to tax them more to do it? I can't follow your logic, sorry. I'm asking..........

What do you want to do when we run out of easy-to-get oil??

What's your view of the future's energy? Some yet-to-be-discovered safe and available source? What is it?

And Johnboy, I have visited with the owner of a drilling company, and sat in Oil City, LA and looked at all the working oil pumps, and looked at his books, and seen what it takes to get oil out of the ground, and how they are taxed, etc. I am under the impression that hot water is what is injected in the fracking process, to loosen the oil. Am I wrong? I also thought we were discussing a possible connection between injecting anything into the ground and how it might be related to earthquakes. Not sure how all this is connected, but clearly there's some wild feelings out there. Just not sure how y'all plan to get around when all the fuel is gone. I don't want earthquakes, of course. But we've had them 20 miles from me for many years, way before fracking. They have increased since, and decreased, and increased and....well.....makes me wonder. I learned long ago that cause and effect is not the same as correlation. Heck, there is a .89 correlation between stork population and birth rate!!

I just wish I had somewhere to discuss things with people. This stuff here......well it upsets me that any opposing thoughts must surely come only from idiots.

[BarryBobPosthole]

You seem to act like fracking is fine no matter what the cost to people as long is ain't you that's paying that price just as long as you get your gas. I'm not against fracking, I'm just against doing it without knowledge of the consequences and you don't know what they are I don't know what they are. Some people have had their groundwater contaminated severlely, some folks have had their water resources totally screwed up by fracking. I suppose you think that's just the price we pay and too fucking bad? You must be seriously selfish if that's your view and it seems to be what you're saying. We've have a 300 per cent increrase in earthquakes where I live. You think that's fine? Yours in crease and decrease and you don't know if it has anything to do with it? You live smack dab in the middle of the part of your state that has banned fracking BECAUSE OF EARTHQUAKES.

Don't get all sensitive about people disagreeing either. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Well, you're still reading my mind if you think I have no problem at all with it. I said the evidence that I have read says it's injecting hot water, NOT something lethal. That's the sole, only, comment I've made about it. I asked you what you want to do with the oil in the ground embedded in shale, and you don't answer. It was a question.

If you can conclude that I am 100% for all fracking all the time, everywhere, then I can conclude that you are against it all the time, everywhere. I see no difference in those two assumptions.

I didn't disagree with the earthquake discussion. Show me where I did. I asked that your contention that it needs study be applied to being against it, equally to being for it. I also asked (in all honesty, an honest question) for Johnboy (or you) to show me where toxins are injected in the fracking process. I thought it was all hot water, only, which is what was shown to me by the owner of a drilling company. If I am wrong, I asked for someone to show me. Why is that worthy of your ire?

At no point did I get sensitive about people disagreeing. I got 'sensitive' about the manner, the ire, the vile, that is used by someone whose arguments imply that I'm an idiot, and evil, and mean, and hate Earth. I will be happy to accept simple disagreement all day long.

[johnboy]

Bucky, I must confess that I'm not able to follow your train of thought either. What I seem to hear is 'go for it and to hell with the consequences'. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what it sounds like to me. And I never once called you an idiot - not ever and I never will. The least likely way to convince someone to your way of thinking is to call them names. I respect that you have an opinion but you know what they say about opinions, including mine.

Pardon me for moving off topic from earthquakes to another result of the fracking process. I know that that sort of thing is never tolerated on this board so excuse me!

As for the chemicals that are injected along with the other materials such as silica, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_for_hydraulic_fracturing
Yeah, I know it's Wikipedia and not to be trusted cause they're all commie tree huggers but they must get something right occasionally. Not many items on that list that I would like in my glass of water.

As for future energy, I think we have already gotten all the easy stuff. That's why fracking is so important now, good or bad. What concerns me, is the frantic push to get everything out of the ground and sold as quickly as possible. It's really a rape, pillage and plunder mentality and not sustainable in the long term. The Ft. Mc Murray tar sands are a prime example of this. What will we do when all the fuel is gone? Beats the shit outa me but who gave this generation the right to use everything up as fast as we can and to hell with the future generations. Greed is what drives this and it sickens me.

Do we need to frack? Sounds like we do. Do we need to do it with a total disregard for the problems we are creating for future generations? I don't think so. Do oil companies pay enough to take a common resource? Not a chance.

Oops, looks like I missed a couple of posts while typing. Oh well.

[Buckrub]

OK, point well taken. I appreciate that.

I will check that out, but.....I do NOT trust Wikipedia. You can go add anything you want to it, and then post it as a reference. That's not good enough. I was told it was hot water only, by a man that did it that way.........but that was long ago, I admit. Maybe it's changed. If so, I want to know. But sticking hot water into the ground........well, if that causes problems, I'm sorry....but that's a process I'll accept to get more oil.

Greed? Man, what drives all of us? What's the point of getting it out of the ground at all? Some altruistic philanthropic feeling of wanting to help mankind? Geez, Louise, man. Profit is NOT greed.

I do NOT think we have TOTAL disregard for problems being caused. To say that is to say that these companies are evil, conniving, mean men who sit behind big desks and twirl their mustaches like a cartoon villain at the thought of screwing the World. I call B/S. These companies are working hard to ensure this is done safely.

But it has to be done, man! IT HAS TO! Your bike, your boat, your truck, your house, your air conditioner, heater, all of it..........our standard of living......depends on it. Period.

There is NO alternative! none. When it's gone, we're back to horses.

I am not all for any method to get oil. But I'm 100% opposed to wild claims of evil men making solely binary choices.......either drill and screw the world, or don't drill and save the world. It's that kind of b/s binary 'logic' that I oppose.

But thank you for your post. I did appreciate it.

[Buckrub]

Guess these guys were fracking.

http://news.msn.com/world/magnitude-76-earthquake-strikes-near-solomon-islands-usgs

(OK, that was stupid, but I couldn't resist.......so shoot me) :)

[Captain]

Damn how did this go from me checking on one of my Oklahoma buddies welfare to all this......
Oh yea, Goodhunting. ;)

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[Buckrub]

Rule 1b

It's my fault.

Taking the 5 y/o back tomorrow. A week of this makes a man crazy and testy. I love him to death. But wowzers.

[Herb2]

Barry,

Thanks for the link and article. I found a somewhat more complete version here: www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/ohio-looks-at-whether-fracking-led-to-2-quakes.html?_r=0 .

Here is a cut and paste:

Ohio Looks at Whether Fracking Led to 2 Quakes




Ohio officials said Tuesday that an oil and gas well near the site of two small earthquakes was undergoing hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, when the quakes occurred.

The State Department of Natural Resources ordered work halted at the well and six others in Poland Township, near the Pennsylvania border, on Monday after the two earthquakes earlier in the day. The quakes, of magnitude 2.6 and 3.0, caused no damage or injuries but were felt in nearby towns.

The department said it acted “out of an abundance of caution” to suspend the operation by Hilcorp Energy, a large independent oil and gas producer based in Houston. It is the only such operator in the area, which is about 15 miles southeast of Youngstown.

Mark Bruce, a spokesman for the department, said it was too early to determine whether drilling operations induced the earthquakes. “What we’re focusing on now is getting all the data from the company,” he said. “We’ll examine it first and decide next steps after that.”

But Mr. Bruce said one of the affected wells had been undergoing fracking to release oil and gas. In fracking, large amounts of water, sand and chemicals are pumped into a well to break up the rock — in this case, a formation known as the Utica shale — to free hydrocarbons.

Over the past decade, shale oil and gas production has been linked to earthquakes in Ohio, Arkansas, Oklahoma and other states, and in several countries. In most cases, however, the quakes were tied to disposal wells, in which wastewater from oil and gas production is injected under pressure into permeable rock formations. The water is thought to alter pressures underground and unclamp old faults, allowing them to slip.

There have been only a few instances — in British Columbia, England and south-central Oklahoma — in which the fracking itself was thought to have induced quakes large enough to be felt.

Mr. Bruce said there were no disposal wells in the area where the quakes occurred Monday.

A disposal well in Youngstown was permanently shut in 2012 after it was linked to a series of quakes that began there three years ago, and no new disposal wells have been allowed within five miles of the site.

Hilcorp Energy said it was cooperating with the state investigation. “We are not aware of any evidence to connect our operations to these events,” the company said in a statement, pointing out that other wells had been drilled in the Utica shale in Ohio in recent years without a problem.

A spokesman for the company said drilling of the wells in Poland Township, at an old landfill, had begun in 2012. The wells were in various stages of completion, he said, and only one was producing oil and gas. They were drilled to a depth of about 1.5 miles and then extended horizontally for about a mile through the shale.

That depth is the same recorded for the first quake Monday by the United States Geological Survey, although depth measurements for earthquakes are often only approximate. The first quake, of magnitude 3.0, occurred around 2:30 a.m., followed by the 2.6-magnitude quake nine hours later. Preliminary analysis showed they were centered within several thousand feet of the wells. The smaller quake was estimated to have originated about three miles underground.

During the series of quakes in Youngstown in 2011 and 2012, state officials called in geoscientists to analyze the quake data and study the geology of the area.


Here is a quote from above that pretty much refutes the claim that the earthquake are definitively caused by fracture treatments: "Mark Bruce, a spokesman for the department, said it was too early to determine whether drilling operations induced the earthquakes. “What we’re focusing on now is getting all the data from the company,” he said. “We’ll examine it first and decide next steps after that.” "

Unfortunately, this type of "editing"; where pretty important details are left out (thereby changing the point of the piece) has become very common in this debate.

Taking on the tax issue, you might not understand that Oklahoma's gross production tax is based, not on income, but rather on gross proceeds. If your company brings in $100 million, but had $200 million in legitimate deductions, what would you tax burden be? Zero.

If you are in oil and gas extraction, the Gross Production Tax would be 7.085% of $100 million, and then all the service companies and contractors would also pay their income taxes. There are several gross Production Tax Breaks, reducing the 7+% tax rate by (usually) 1% for such things as restarting old shut in wells, or employing expensive, state-of-the-art technology (such as 3-D Seismic coupled with horizontal drilling and high volume hydraulic fracturing). The rationale behind these breaks, which are typically pretty short in duration (a couple of years is common) is that, without the break, the state would get nothing (zero production=zero tax), so state is better off getting a smaller piece of a real pie that a big piece of nothing. The breaks also are applied only to that part of the production stream attributable to whatever process they took the break on.

[Captain]

An earthquake happens when two tectonic plates that are constantly sliding over each other hang up and build up pressure. The quake happens when the pressure builds up so much it finally makes them slip.
Seems to me if this frackin' lubes them plates up and keeps them moving it will keep the severity of the quakes down in the low numbers. Could keep them plates from building up enough pressure to cause "the big one"
Maybe we should put some WD-40 in that water or Seafoam?
:D
Take Care, SD

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[Buckrub]

Ed probably has enough Seafoam. If he doesn't, I bet I can add a bunch to it.

[Thumper]

Hey! Let's try Super Glue ... then sell bleacher tickets to sit around and wait for "The Big One"! ;)

[Niner]

Holy Cow!!!
Living in "The Deep South" I had no idea about the trials and tribulations that are going on "Out West" with this freaking fracking business. We just never hear this kind of stuff on our local news. Guess I need to be better edumicated.....but I've got a lot on my plate already.

Barry, it sounds like OK has certainly got a problem on its hands and at a minimum needs to be collecting the same kind of revenues that their neighboring states do.

My only water supply here is my well. It has to be the best tasting water I have ever had in my life!
In fact, my daughter got one of those little pens that are supposed to test for impurities and water quality.
She thought she'd be a smart ass and tested her beloved Desanti bottle and a glass from the kitchen sink.
The kitchen sink water was a lot better quality than her bottle of Desanti was. I still give her shit about that!

I KNOW I'd be pizzzzed as all get out if flammable gasses were to show up in my only water supply!!!!:angryfire:atomic

Down here I'd say one of the primary "industries" is agriculture and forestry products. The timber companies have thousands and thousands of acres planted in pines. When they acquire a new tract they go in and aerial spray and kill everything that is not a pine tree. Then they go in and plant more pine trees. That's all well and good, but wildlife don't eat pine cones. NOT that that means anything about anything.....just throwin' that out there.

Besides, I wanna go fishin'..........so get to frackin'. :fishing

[Captain]

What you mean "Out West" Niner.
They are fracking like hell in NC
They won some case this past January that gives them an exception to the clean water act so they can keep there chemical cocktail they pump under ground a secret to citizens here in NC.
Read.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/14/3532704/nc-fracking-panel-passes-chemical.html

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[Captain]

And it looks like some Oklahoma company is coming to your back yard in Georgia to frack awhile.... http://naatlanta.com/blog/2013/04/24/fracking-comes-to-georgia/

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Not to worry Larke. Its just hot water.

BKB

[Captain]

Not to worry Larke. Its just hot water. BKB

Yep I'm sure it is. That's the reason they spent MILLIONS in legal fees to keep it a secret... ;)

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