Excuse Me

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'll say excuse me ahead of time, but I don't really agree with this bombing of ISIS and here's the reason: I think it is a 99% politically driven action. I've seen nothing about ISIS or their capabilities or anything else that makes them any more of a threat to us here at home than any of the other nutbag radical religious sects that hate on the United States as about the only rallying cry they have to draw members. Both political parties use the fear and insecurity of the American people as a political vote attracting tool and I believe that is about 99% of the basis of the action the President took in this current opening of 'the war on ISIS' with bombs and cruise missiles. And to me that just makes it dead ass wrong.
The most effective thing we can do to ISIS is ignore them. ITS WHY THEY'RE PROVOKING US. The best thing we can do for Iraq is to allow them to bear the responsibility of their decisions and actions. that's what happens in the world. you make stupid shit decisions and somebody else is gonna take your ass over. See ya. Wouldn't wanna be ya.

BKB

[Thumper]

One word .... OIL. What if another Saddam Hussein goes in and takes over ... and holds power by the same methods as Saddam did? We'd be all over it and use human suffrage and crimes against humanity, etc. as a reason. We want a "friend" there who will sell us their oil at a decent price.

If we are bombing the middle-east for the reasons we say we are, we'd also be bombing North Korea and sending the SEAL's in after Kim Jong-un. Heck, with their nuclear weapons program and human rights abuses, they're worse than this bunch of camel-humpers in a dang sand box! The only reason the rag-heads fuck with us is because we're always fucking with them! BUT ... that said ... we DO need their oil. Oklahoma can only take so many more earthquakes before they start crying foul! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

That table has flipped though, Thumper. If something happens to Middle East oil production, then us being one of the world's top producers oughta be in line for reaping big profits when oil goes up because of it shouldn't we?

Oh wait, never mind. Logic don't work in the oil bidness.

BKB

[LJ3]

I agree we shouldn't be bombing their asses even though part of me has no problem with killing barbarians. But you're absolutely right, ignore the provokers.

I think they only reason we're doing it is so Republicans can't say "You did nothing, you have no policy." come election time. "yuh huh! Look! We bombed them and what not."

Friggin' ridiculous.

[Chicken Dinner]

I dunno where I am on this. the bottom line is they're coming for us either way. So, we might as well take it to them if we have easily identified targets. the underlying issue is that we have no policy and this tail wagging the dog bullshit isn't going to change that.

[Captain]

It is one of the few things Ding Dong has done I agree with. Just wish there were MORE bombs used.

<CALayer: 0x177b10c0>

[Sunshine]

Is anyone else seeing this on your screen.
Every since you updated Capt, your signature is sometime correct and sometimes like this.


3686

[Captain]

We discussed this earlier.
Most of the time I just go back and edit the "tag" off the bottom of the thread.
Guess the site needs updating too?

http://www.goodhunting.info/showthread.php?5361-Oh-No!!!!-NOT-PBR

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[DeputyDog]

I have mixed feelings about this too. Bombing them won't solve the problem. As long as the locals in that region accept their extremist message, and don't treat the messengers as "crazies", then this will continue. We can kill all of the current fighters, but a new group will step up behind them.

However, I believe that we kind of caused this problem in the first place by going into Iraq and destabilizing the country. As bad as Sadam was, he would have kept a lid on this type of activity. Even if you disagree with why we went into Iraq in the first place, I think we have a responsibility to fix what we broke, not just mess everything up then leave after public opinion changed, not when the job was done.

I do agree that if there wasn't oil in that part of the world, we wouldn't have any involvement there, but we've been mixed up in what's going on over there for over 100 years, so it's too late to just walk away and let them do what they want. Even if we did, they wouldn't leave us alone. They are a culture that is based on oral traditions and they have a looong memory. They don't just let things go, and us just leaving them alone wouldn't satisfy them, they would believe that we still need to pay for what we've done over the past 100 years or so.

Barry, as far as you not seeing much about ISIS's capabilities to harm us here, I don't remember seeing or hearing much about a little group called Al-Qaeda's ability to harm us at home until they killed over 3000 people in NYC, DC, and PA.

With all that said, I'd much rather be killing them over there than over here. I see where a lot of European countries as well as Australia are concerned about citizens of their respective countries who have left to go fight with ISIS returning home and conducting missions in their home countries. We need to be concerned about this as well. Minnesota has dozens of American born Somali teens who have gone missing and are believed to have gone back to the "motherland" to be trained as fighters only to return home to carry on the fight here. That is just one example. It's not a large amount, but remember, it was only 19 actual people on the ground here who carried out the 9/11 attacks.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Good points. I'd like to think though with all of the billions we spend annually on Homeland Security, which didn't exist before 9/11, that we're a bit more prepared for an Al-Qaeda like attempt at something here at home. I'm not saying its impossible for them to do something here. I'm just saying there's no real hard evidence they have much of that kind of capability. and to your point about fixing what we broke in Iraq, they've had their chance and have allowed the political situation there to be driven by religious sectarianism. We aren't going to be able to do anything to change that line of thinking. the only reason Saddam was able to do away with it was by gassing/executing/supressing those that opposed him.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I agree we can't do anything about their line of thinking, the moderates over there have to do that. They are the ones who need to step up and make it known that the extremists are not the majority and start to treat them like the fringe group that they are. This country has several groups of religious extremists but they are regarded as "nuts" or at best fringe elements by the vast majority of the population. Until that sort of thing happens in the Middle East with the Muslim extremists, then nothing will change. I did see a new article the other day where there is a movement in some of the Muslim countries where they are using the hashtag #not in my name to protest ISIS and other groups doing what they are doing in the name of Islam.

I agree that Saddam's methods weren't very nice, but my point was they were effective. Just like what happened in the Balkans in the early '90's. After the totalitarian Communist regimes were removed from power, all of the sectarian groups that had been forcibly mixed all started up their ancient rivalries and began to kill each other after they had lived together without any major problems for over 50 years. That is just what is happening in the Middle East. Look at Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Weaken the central government, no matter how bad they are, and all hell breaks loose.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That seems to be the case and you're right it's been that way a very long time. Like forever. That's likely why their religious doctrine calls for eliminating your rival. Its about the only way there's ever been stability like you said.

When I hear military and political leaders speak out though about how we ought to attack these people because they're a threat to the homeland and argue about boots on the ground and all of that, I have to wonder......we spend about $60 billion a year on Homeland Security. We've given up liberties and we've given the federal government unprecedented powers to pry into our privacy. Why then, is the first thing we hear any time a group like this emerges that we need to go to war with them? I thought that's what Homeland Security was supposed to do. Make us more secure. If the answer is gonna be war every time, why not spend those billions somewhere else?

BKB

[DeputyDog]

The only thing I can think of is that it is a lot better to fight them over there than over here in case we miss a few. By attacking them over there, we keep them unstable enough to prevent them organizing a big attack over here. I guess it's better to have two lines of defense in case something sneaks through the first.

If we waited until they were here and tried to take out a bunch of them with the police instead of a hellfire fired from a drone, I think there would be a lot of bad consequences. Especially since we can't use the military or the CIA here like we are over there and it seems that everyone wants to take away any military style equipment away from the police now.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Can't disagree. I'd rather we wait a bit longer and gather our intelligence together though instead of rushing into it. and frankly I don't trust any of the players in our country who are calling for this too.

I keep coming back to....why are these characters provoking us like they are? the beheadings, the videos, the language they use. Its all designed to purposefully provoke us. And apparently they have us figured pretty good because we jumped right to it. I'm no student of Sun Tzu, but I'm pretty sure he probably has something in there about not reacting the way your enemy is trying to direct you to. I personally believe they're trying to recruit the rest of the Sunni population to their cause and an attack by the West would actually make them stronger instead of weaker. But apparently we don't have time for that because they're about to climb in our kitchen windows according to our election year idiots. We seem to be doing exactly what they are leading us to and I am afraid we are sticking our heads in a larger noose than we realize.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

And just one last thing, I looked at the Homeland Security site that replaced the old color warning system. Its called the 'National Terrorism Advisory system'. https://www.dhs.gov/national-terrorism-advisory-system

There are no current alerts listed there. No warnings for ISIS, no nothing. but FoxNews is reporting that DHS and the FBI is saying to be on the lookout for 'lone wolf' attacks from ISIS. Somebody is blowing this shit way up. I wonder who?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Flying home from Hong Kong in the morning and CNN International has me a little freaked out. If I don't make it home, avenge me...

[DeputyDog]

I don't know if they are having much success with the rest of the Sunni population. I think that they may even be too much for them. They came out as extreme as they could be right from the start. If they would have started out more moderately and then after they got a good deal of support or territory under their control, then went extreme, they might have had a better shot. Look what the Nazis did in Germany. The didn't start taking over territory or killing the unwanted in their society until they had the support of the majority of the population, then they went extreme and it was too late for the moderates in Germany to do anything about it.

Did you see where Russia condemned the bombings in Syria but Assad himself said that he had been notified ahead of time and was fine with what happened? I guess he's just doing whatever he can to hold on there, but he didn't have a problem with the US bombing ISIS in his own country.

[DeputyDog]

Flying home from Hong Kong in the morning and CNN International has me a little freaked out. If I don't make it home, avenge me...

You're not flying on Malaysia Airlines I hope?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Here's some light reading, Hank while you're waiting for your flight. Hopefully, its not flight 7.

BKB

http://time.com/20351/missing-plane-flight-mh370-5-conspiracy-theories/

[LJ3]

Why is the nature conservancy in Honk Kong? Te be told in person that they have no fuck in which to give about nature or the environment?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Hahahahaha....I thought it but didn't say it.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Is Malaysia Air a problem? Did I miss something?