chemical weapons were found in Irag

[Captain]

This from the NY times.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html

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[BarryBobPosthole]

sure they were. In the 1980's. That's quite a stretch even for a die hard believer like you, Captain.

BKB

[Captain]

Don't know where you get 1980's? The article states they were found in 2008...

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[BarryBobPosthole]

they'd been buried since the 80's is what I mean Captain since before the first war in what, 91? All I mean is if this is the WMDs that Bush took us to war for 10 years for then I'm still kinda disappointed.

BKB

[Fido]

I get somewhat upset when Bush 2 gets all the blame for going tooo war in Iraq. If I recall all our allies intel said Sadam had WMD's as well as our own. But that seems tooo be the nature of the job toooo take the heat if things go south.

[LJ3]

These were WMD that we sold to "insurgents du jour" at the time. Not WMD that Sadam made for his purposes.


That's what I done heard, anyway.

[Buckrub]

I'm more disappointed in the 100 senators and 432 (3 against) Congressmen who voted to fund that 'war', over and over and over and over and over.....including Hillary and Obama.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Fido, while agree that not EVERYTHING done under a president's watch is necessarily symbolic of what he believes, how he manages his business, or anything at all to do with his leadership that seems to be the rule of thumb in this old political world we live in. But to add to a theme that Bucky brought up recently, its most telling I think to notice what a leader does when he finds out he was misled or made an error in judgement or even just had something unexpected happen. that shows the true character I think of a leader. Accountability is a character trait that all of our presidents have lacked for several terms now. The fact that the American public and the leaders who make decisions in our government were grossly misled isn't the thing we need to be concerned about. Its how they have stubbornly refused to take responsibility for it that irks the ever lovin shit out of me. that's pretty much par for the course for Obama AND Bush II in my opinion.

BKB

[Buckrub]

There seems to be an epidemic of "I can't admit I'm wrong ever", especially in politicians. With them also is the thought "Nobody in my whole party ever said anything wrong". It's almost like it's a testosterone thing or something. I see it here.........my truck, my phone, my four wheeler, my way........I do it too.

I'm wrong 50 times a day. But sometimes I'm not. They're wrong too. Learn how to figure it out, look at it correctly, and admit it.

[Fido]

You are Right On Barry!!!! Accountability has most definitely been on the short side. And what a mistake our leaders make by not owning up or passing blame on some other entity when if they would only own up that it was their miscue they would earn more respect than they could imagine!

[Thumper]

Well, while you guys argue the politics involved ... all that comes to MY mind is what the troops involved are facing.

This stirs up a LOT of mixed emotions for me. After working in the intelligence field in the military, I have to admit, "SOME" things should be classified and in some instances, remain classified. But classified info and a cover-up are two different things. I don't mean to change the subject here, but I can totally relate ... in MY era, it was Agent Orange.

The very last sentence of "Part 1" really struck home with me.

“This is mustard agent,” he said, announcing the BEGINNING OF A JOURNEY OF INADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE AND HONORS DENIED. “We’ve all been exposed.” (capitalization is mine)

You are all aware of my numerous trips back to S.E. Asia while I was healthy. I'll admit, the main reason for my trips was because I fell in love with the country and it's people 42 years ago and during those years, my plan has always been to retire there. Personal and medical problems have prevented that so far, but it's still not out of the question. So, my primary missions were "pleasure trips" ... but my secondary mission was "business". Regarding the "business" end of my trips ... it had to do with Agent Orange exposure that the government was denying ever existed.

One, I knew for a fact we used AO where the gov't. was claiming none was used. I had a buddy who had multiple symptoms of AO exposure and he was being denied benefits and compensation because of it. I've mentioned here before about my having to burn those babies killed in "Operation Baby Lift" back in 1975, well this guy was the truck driver (actually Mil. Intel.) who hauled the bodies out to the pyre at 3:00 am on that morning that I still have nightmares about. I suppose all of that was a secret as there is no record of it happening ANYWHERE that I can find. There were only 4 people involved ... ALL Intel. There's even a woman writing a book about it who consulted with me for a few years. She came down with cancer and passed away before she ever wrote the book. In all of her research, my story is the ONLY reference she's found regarding that night. Scan about half way down to "Burying bodies in Thailand". http://www.babyliftrevisited.typepad.com/

As for the guy mentioned above, I won't go into the details of what I did or where I went on my travels back to Asia looking for AO evidence, but I was able to get a few photos that may have helped (with the help of some foreign military connections I've maintained a friendship with). Problem is, my buddy died before anything could get accomplished. There are a ton of similar examples out there.

After a VERY quick Google search ... this is the first article that came up ... I didn't even scan down to see what else came up. This is just from last year ... so it's not really "old" news. Do these excerpts sound familiar? What unit do you think he was in? Note: All of our unit's installations were under the cover names of "Radio Research Field Stations" if that's of any help. They were all manned by MI (ASA/military and NSA/civilian) as well as CIA.

Published June 30, 2013 FoxNews.com

Tennessee resident Kenneth Moore was a 19-year-old stationed in Thailand during the Vietnam War, and was sent several times to Vietnam for "radio work". (I added the quotes) He recalls the strange powdery herbicide being sprayed on trees that landed on his clothes.....

The VA said there was no proof he was exposed to Agent Orange. And, because he was stationed in Thailand, they said there was no proof he was even ever in Vietnam.

"It's just like, 'You're a liar,' you know," Moore told WSMV.

To make matters even muddier, we were all in the intelligence field and not everything some of us did was documented. You all know of my close friend who was a Navy SEAL. He has classic AO exposure symptoms. He's been exposed to so much AO he may as well have showered with the stuff. The problem? His missions are not documented. Why? They were Top Secret! It's a Catch-22. When I joined the Intel field, I was told our unit was not in Vietnam. It was an old joke in the units, the recruiters were correct so they felt they weren't lying to new recruits. We were members of the ASA, but there was no "ASA" in Vietnam, we were "attached" to other units and our base of operations were called "Radio Research (Groups or Field Stations)"! Sneaky huh?

Vietnam War

Although not officially serving under the ASA name, covertly designated as Radio Research, ASA personnel of the 3rd Radio Research Unit were among the earliest U.S. military personnel in Vietnam; 3rd later grew to become the 509th Radio Research Group.

Most ASA personnel processed in country through Davis Station. It was named after James Davis, the first ASA casualty in Vietnam. President Lyndon Johnson later termed Davis "the first American to fall in the defense of our freedom in Vietnam" (but that wasn't true). ASA personnel were attached to Army infantry and armored cavalry units throughout the Vietnam War. Some teams were also attached to the Studies and Observation Group of Military Assistance Command Vietnam and special forces units. Other teams were independent of other army units, such as the 313th Radio Research Brigade at Nha Trang. ASA personnel remained in Vietnam after the 1973 pullout of US Army combat forces and remained present until the Fall of Saigon in April 1975. (I returned home 4 months later)

All that looks pretty straight-forward ... UNTIL you try to prove everywhere you've been and everything you've done while filing future health claims. Example ... I've mentioned the "Secret War" in Laos a few times here. Generally, troops would officially "drop out of the military" and work as "civilians". If they were captured or killed, they were not "military" ... they were more or less. "civilian workers/contractors .... or mercenaries"! Once their duty was finished in Laos, they returned (officially) to the U.S. military. Ok, can you see how complicated things would get when applying for benefits for "injuries" sustained in Laos? Heck, we'd run up through the jungle out of Thailand to adjust antennas and replace batteries in hidden repeaters, then sneak back across the border to our Thai base. No orders ... no proof .. no nuttin' ... just do it and don't get caught. If you were exposed to any sort of injury during that time, how do you explain (or prove) it to the VA? There are a bazillion scenarios and that is a very small example. I've personally been exposed to so much AO I should be eaten up by it. I do have symptoms of exposure but I've been told it's "nerve damage". Okaaaay ... ummm ... HOW did I acquire this "nerve damage". I guess I fell out of bed and injured myself.

My home base was in Northern Thailand and the military has always maintained there was no AO used in Thailand. I cried foul and knew for a fact that was bullshit. I have incriminating before and after pics in my file and only an idiot could not admit "something" smells about the whole thing. How long ago was Vietnam? Does anybody have a clue how many have suffered from and died from AO exposure, but never received any benefits or compensation during their illness (or to help the family)? This report was JUST released a few years ago ... FINALLY! Note: My buddy (and who knows how many others, passed away before this admission was made public.

VA Compensation & Pension Service Bulletin May 2010

After reviewing documents related to herbicide use in Vietnam and Thailand, it has been determined that there was significant use of herbicides on the fenced in perimeters of military bases in Thailand intended to eliminate vegetation and ground cover for base security purposes. Evidence of this can be found in a "declassified" Vietnam era Department of Defense (DoD) document titled Project CHECO Southeast Asia Report: Base Defense in Thailand.

My question is, why was something like that even classified in the first place? I could go on and on ... but this has turned into a "Thump Post" already and I doubt too many will read through all of it, but sometimes it just feels a bit better to let off a little steam ... and Cappy's post caused that pressure to build up a little.

To end this ... another point in that sentence I quoted at the beginning of this post ... HONORS DENIED ... been there, done that too! In fact, I was given a medal by the Cambodian government ... again, I won't go into specific details, but I'm VERY proud of it. The ribbon was personally presented to me by my CO (I still have it), but I was told the medal would be presented in a formal ceremony at HQ by the Company Commander at a later date. It never happened. When I finally inquired about it, I was told, "Sorry son, but we weren't in Cambodia!" (wink, wink) I was then given the letter of recognition (below). Needless to say, any mention of the medal is non-existent in my DD214. It would be nice to be able to pass that on to my son who will be getting all of my "I've been there" military stuff.

11976

All of this was just written to say, I can totally relate to the subject of Cappy's post and evidently the lessons learned from Vietnam didn't amount to much. Injuries (mental or physical) that soldiers received in the military are still going untreated because they were incurred in places where "they really weren't there". :(