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View Full Version : What'cha think? Kind of an interesting take ....



Thumper
10-28-2014, 08:11 PM
... if'n ya' gots time to read it. (It's written by Ivan Eland)

Is Barack Obama the Worst President in American History?

After my recent appearance on the Fox News Channel's morning show, Fox and Friends, Donald Trump, appearing after me on the same show, asserted that my ranking of Barack Obama 34th out of 41 presidents rated -- in the new, revised edition of Recarving Rushmore: Ranking the Presidents on Peace, Prosperity, and Liberty -- had "zero credibility" because Obama was the worst president in American history.

Donald Trump has a right to his opinion and may be an expert on real estate and "shock marketing," but he is an apprentice at American history. With America's ahistorical orientation and restrictive two-party political system, people on the right of the American political spectrum reflexively and viscerally believe that the current left-of-center president is the worst in history; left-leaning people had the same opinion of George W. Bush.

Yet in the American two-party system, the parties behave like two giant corporations that are alone in one market -- that is a duopoly. They pretend to fiercely compete on the surface but really collude under the table. This fact is hard for the American public to grasp, given the harsh public rhetoric and posturing by both parties and a 24/7/365 cable news environment that feeds on such rhetorical controversy. But the evidence that this sub rosa collusion among the parties exists is that the policy records of "liberal Obama" and "conservative" Bush are very similar. They both started and escalated needless wars, restricted civil liberties in the fight against terrorism, and increased the federal government's role domestically. As an example of their parallel actions at home, they both expanded health care coverage, increased federal intrusion into education, bailed out or socialized industries, doled out goodies on a grand scale to special interest groups, and spent like drunken sailors on domestic programs.

Yet, historians do not share the view that Obama and Bush are the worst presidents in American history. They usually pick on people like James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce, Herbert Hoover, and (very unfairly) Warren Harding as being the bottom dwellers. I might disagree with many of such choices by historians, but I don't disagree that Obama and Bush aren't the worst.

Naturally, people -- especially in America -- live in the moment and, given the "crisis" orientation of cable news, think that this is the worst period the country has ever gone through. Not really. In U.S. history, there have been much greater economic calamities and grander needless wars -- and thus worse presidents.

In Recarving Rushmore, the four worst presidents -- falling below both Obama and George W. Bush -- were in rank order: James Polk, William McKinley, Harry Truman, and Woodrow Wilson. James Madison was correct that war is the primary cause of big government in American and world history. War creates a national security state, greater government intervention in domestic society and the economy, and promotes the state's erosion of cherished civil liberties. What these four presidents have in common is that they led the country into needless wars that changed America for the worst. James Polk purposefully started a war with a weak state, Mexico, to steal a third of its land and, in doing so, aggravated regional tensions that eventually led to America's most searing and cataclysmic war -- the Civil War. William McKinley undertook the Spanish-American War to launch the United States, which had revolted against the British Empire, into its own imperial role by acquiring colonies and beginning the long, interrupted trajectory toward America as an interventionist superpower. Harry Truman converted a local war in Greece into an expensive worldwide Cold War against the Soviet Union, which began with a stalemated hot war in non-strategic Korea that led to the creation of the national security state, the imperial presidency, and the shelving of the traditional requirement that the American people, rather than its leader, would decide if war was needed. Finally, Woodrow Wilson, ignoring America's tradition of staying out of Europe's wars, took the nation into World War I, which laid the seeds for the Bolshevik Revolution, Hitler's rise, World War II, and the Cold War.

So Barack Obama is a bad president whose stock is dropping, as I said on the show, because his war against ISIS is likely to make Islamic radicalism and terrorism worse; but Woodrow Wilson is the worst president in American history, because he ruined the 20th century and is now working on the 21st.

Captain
10-28-2014, 09:25 PM
I agree with Donald Trump....

BarryBobPosthole
10-28-2014, 09:55 PM
I don't know who this guy is, but I agree with most of what he said.

And it doesn't surprise me that a guy who thinks Sarah Palin has a brain agrees with The Donald.

BKB

Thumper
10-28-2014, 10:05 PM
Here's a little blurb on him ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Eland

quercus alba
10-28-2014, 10:09 PM
that fella and me don't agree on Woodrow Wilson.....I agree he was a horrible president but I don't think he led us into world war one, I think he was horrible because he denied an epidemic existed that killed over 1/2 million americans. The accounts I've read said he wanted to stay out of WW1 but public outrage pushed him into our involvement.

I guess it all depends on what you think makes a bad president, loss of life, bad economics, poor foreign policy or what ever. I think my main problem with Obama is that he doesn't put america first. He wants to be a citizen of the world more than a citizen of the U.S.

BarryBobPosthole
10-28-2014, 10:13 PM
I kind of figured he was a libertarian when he pissed all over the two party system. It has its flaws, but until the libertarians or Greens or any other independant party puts up a valid candidate the two party system is what we have. Probably the last valid run at a third party was the Bull Moose Party with Teddy Roosevelt.
But with that said I'd say my political beliefs are as close to libertarian as they are democrat.

BKB

LJ3
10-28-2014, 10:56 PM
He makes some points worth considering. I purt near agree with most of 'em, too. Even if I don't agree, they're pretty dang close to what the truth looks like from my perspective.

Thumper
10-28-2014, 11:48 PM
I have to admit, I like his take on things. He's basically saying a frigging politician is a frigging politician no matter the party. The 2-party system is like a divorce ... HIS friends side with him and SHE'S a bitch, HER friends side with her and HE'S a bastard ... but they prolly both fucked up the marriage together. ;)

Captain
10-29-2014, 06:02 AM
I don't know who this guy is, but I agree with most of what he said.

And it doesn't surprise me that a guy who thinks Sarah Palin has a brain agrees with The Donald.

BKB

:D

It ain't her brain that has my attention! ;)

BarryBobPosthole
10-29-2014, 06:40 AM
Hahahaha I kind of figured that!

BKB

DeputyDog
10-29-2014, 08:30 AM
He's definitely right that Americans forget the past and feel that now is the only time that matters. Look at any list of the "best/worst" in anything, sports, politics, etc.. and it will be loaded with current or recent participants.

I'm not sure I'd blame Wilson for getting the US into WWI. He kept us out of it for over 3 years while all of Europe was killing off a generation and if I remember right, the sinking of the Lusitania was the final straw that got the US involved. I'd say that the US entry into the war was what turned the tide and brought it to an end. You can blame Wilson and the other leaders of the winning side for just about everything that's happened in the last 100 years though with the way they divided up the beaten countries. The fall of the Ottoman Empire and the division of it's former territories can be blamed for the majority of problems in the Mid-East, and the the treatment of a beaten Germany and the re-mapping of eastern Europe can be blamed for WWII and the Cold-War.

Buckrub
10-29-2014, 08:44 AM
The two party system IS at fault........but not because there isn't a third one. It's at fault because there are two.

BarryBobPosthole
10-29-2014, 08:46 AM
I'm not sure we could have avoided entering into WWI regardless of who was president, so I agree with DD on that one. The thing Wilson did was he was a major contributor to winning the war but losing the peace. The Versailles Treaty, which he was a huge part of constructing, was mainly responsible for WWII. And if you read up on it, its mainly responsible for the way the west operated in the middle east and created a lot of the problems we have today. It was a huge mistake. No wonder the congress didn't ratify it for years after Wilson committed us to it. One thing I've always found interesting is that Wilson was out of the country for over six months during the treaty negotiations. Can you image a modern president being out of the country that long these days?

I don't know if I call him one of the worse, but he was in the bottom half for sure.

BKB

Thumper
10-29-2014, 08:50 AM
I feel the whole political party system should be abandoned anyway. What's wrong with simply voting for the candidate you most agree with instead of drawing a line and forcing him to stand on one side or the other. I believe in "gun rights" and I'm also "pro-choice" ... if a hard line must be drawn, what party do I side with?

Buckrub
10-29-2014, 08:59 AM
Woodrow Wilson was the worst because he signed the Income Tax Act in 1913. No income tax before that! Amazingly, the country actually functioned!!

It is immoral, and should be illegal, to tax a man's income or property.

LJ3
10-29-2014, 09:11 AM
I was gonna give Bucky a couple more hours to throw that in there before I did :)

Thumper
10-29-2014, 09:13 AM
So, should the cops have to take time out of their day to go door-to-door asking for donations? Do we abolish the armed services? Or have them volunteer their services? Should we make every highway and city street a toll road? Make every kid line up in the morning to buy an admission ticket to get into school?

I don't mind paying taxes ... what I don't like is when that tax money is wasted, squandered or given away to undeserving causes (or persons).

Buckrub
10-29-2014, 09:27 AM
Just do it like they did before 1913. As I said.......it worked.

I don't care how you do it..........if something is wrong, it's wrong. Taxing a man's income or property is simply wrong. Period.

Thumper
10-29-2014, 11:06 AM
What's wrong is the fraud and waste involved. Get rid of those two things and we may be able to do something about it. I've been to countries with little or no social programs. Where some poor farmer loses his legs or arms in a work accident and is left with no way to eat other than sitting on a busy street corner begging for food. If a baby is born with birth defects (physical or mental), they are abandoned in trash cans because there is no program to help take care of them. Get old with no family and you may as well start digging your own grave. Have an accident and lay on the side of the road dying and just hope some good Samaritan loads your bloody ass into his nice cloth-seated car and hauls you to the hospital, because ambulance service is non-existent. Sure, insurance is an option, but is out of reach for many ... possibly due to high costs attributed to fraud and waste. It's a vicious circle.

I pay my property taxes as it's nice to have a street lamp lighting my street for safety. I enjoy the sidewalks and the fact they'll be repaired if they crack or lift.

Heck, we import almost everything we use these days. I suppose we could abolish these pesky taxes and go back to charging massive import tariffs ... but then we'd bitch and moan about having to pay elebenty-bazillion dollars for a box of plastic forks at Walmart.

BarryBobPosthole
10-29-2014, 01:45 PM
No forks for you, Thumper. You'll have to buy sporks. Otherwise you might try to fork yourself.
BKB

LJ3
10-29-2014, 02:34 PM
I suggest you go fork YOURself, mister posthole. Forkhead.

Thumper
10-29-2014, 02:45 PM
No forks for you, Thumper. You'll have to buy sporks. Otherwise you might try to fork yourself. BKB


I don't even have to comment ... it looks like Ticboy has my back! ;)

BarryBobPosthole
10-29-2014, 03:07 PM
I've worked as a hod carrier before long ago. Guess that made me a mortar forker.

BKB

LJ3
10-29-2014, 03:16 PM
Better than than a cork soaker!

BarryBobPosthole
10-29-2014, 04:00 PM
that's what we call perch out here in the hinterlands......cork sockers.

BKB

Chicken Dinner
10-29-2014, 04:02 PM
You farking iceholes made me smile when I thought about Johnny Dangerously.

LJ3
10-29-2014, 04:06 PM
Iceholes!

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