I think I could stomach a little socialism if I had a guy like this in charge

[LJ3]

This guy speaks my truth.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/charlie-hebdo-mayor-rotterdam-tells-4970496

Charlie Hebdo: Mayor of Rotterdam tells unhappy Muslims to ''pack your bags and f*** off''

Moroccan-born Ahmed Aboutaleb, himself a Muslim, was speaking about the Paris shootings when he stunned a live TV audience

The mayor of Rotterdam stunned a live TV audience by saying Muslims who despise Western culture can "pack their bags" and "f*** off".

Moroccan-born Labour politician Ahmed Aboutaleb, who is also a Muslim, was being interviewed about the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris last week.

The 52-year-old former journalist, who moved to Holland when he was 15, is known for his hardened stance against immigrants who refuse to accept the country's liberal way of life.

Mayor Aboutaleb told Dutch news programme Nieuwsuur (News Hour): "It is incomprehensible that you can turn against freedom.

"But if you do not like freedom, in Heaven’s name pack your bag and leave.”

He added: “There may be a place in the world where you can be yourself... be honest with yourself and do not go and kill innocent journalists.

“And if you do not like it here because humorists you do not like make a newspaper, may I then say you can f*** off.”

“This is stupid, this so incomprehensible... vanish from the Netherlands if you cannot find your place here.”

Earlier this week Mayor Aboutaleb won praise from his London counterpart Boris Johnson, who described him as "the voice of enlightenment."

He wrote in his Telegraph column: "And my hero – the man who got straight to the point – was the Mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, himself a Muslim.

"That is the voice of the Enlightenment, of Voltaire. We can and will protect this country against these jihadist thugs.

"We will bug them and monitor them and arrest them and prosecute them and jail them. But if we are going to win the struggle for the minds of these young people, then that is the kind of voice we need to hear – and it needs above all to be a Muslim voice."

[Buckrub]

Lots of non-socialists have said the same thing. Col Ralph Peters, etc.

I'm afraid if Hitler did his thing today, we'd find some way to blame him alone, or "Radical Nazi's". If the Japanese Empire chimed in, we'd blame "Evil Radical Emperors" and never win that war. Imagine Sparta thinking that only a few Radical Persians were at fault, and thus.........losing!

I have no clue what happened to Planet Earth...or more importantly WHY the drastic change........but I'm glad I'm old. I couldn't live a lot of years this way. Just insane.

[BarryBobPosthole]

You guys ever hear of Charles Martel?

BKB

[Buckrub]

No. and you are most times too intelligent for me to discuss things with validly. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically at all. I just looked him up. A) I can't imagine you could pop that name out like that.......he's pretty obscure.......and B) I am too stupid to see a connection, honest.

[Thumper]

You'd see the connection if you were French. (You didn't read far enough) Look up the Battle of Tours.

A Muslim France? Historically, it nearly happened. But as a result of Martel’s fierce opposition, which ended Muslim advances and set the stage for centuries of war thereafter, Islam moved no farther into Europe. European schoolchildren learn about the Battle of Tours in much the same way that American students learn about Valley Forge and Gettysburg.

[Buckrub]

Ah, thanks.

But that just amazes me about this seriously uneducated old Okie. Man..........who knows all this stuff???

[Buckrub]

By the way.........I have read the Q'uran. Most haven't. And I've studied some on "the prophet" Mohammed.

Mohammed was only peaceful until he gathered a sizable army. After that, he operated about like ISIS does today.

And the Q'uran makes no mention of any punishment for blasphemy against "the prophet". Not a word. The Old Testament law (not currently in effect, even though the Jews and the Baptists think it is!! :)) had severe punishment for blasphemy, yet the believers of that Book today don't practice that in any way. So the Book that has strict prohibitions against blasphemy does nothing, and the book that has no prohibitions against it has its adherents going literally insanely bonkers about it.

[Thumper]

He reads a lot. ;)

[Thumper]

You always leave out the word, "Radical".

We generally call ourselves Conservatives on this site, but would you align yourself with "Right-Wing Extremists"?

You're a good Christian ... but would you align yourself with "Radical Christianity" (or Christian Extremists ... whatever you want to call 'em)?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000397057/polls_300h_3348_518642_poll_xlarge.jpeg

[BarryBobPosthole]

Charles Martel is an important guy. If it weren't for him, we might all be speaking Arab and going to morning prayers. He turned the tide against Islam in Europe and his grandson, Charlemagne finished the job.
I only brought him up to point out that in France, there are muslim cultures that are as old or older than some european ones. So its no wonder they have 'liberal' immigration laws (when you put them up beside ours) with regard to muslims. Its a real problem that maybe now they'll figure out a way to come to terms with.
I got nothing against the Frenchies. They ain't done nothing to us. I don't envy them their job to do with arab/muslim issues they have though.
BKB

[Buckrub]

No. I don't want to kill those who believe differently. In fact, I want to have discussions with them often.

I consider that the opposite of Radicalism.

Update:

ALSO, if a person who believes somewhat similarly to me did some heinous crimes in the name of Christianity, I would loudly proclaim, march in the streets, write letters, petition governments, to have them stopped and prosecuted. Until I see the same out of the peaceful adherents to the same belief system as these Radicals, then I believe they are all equal of the same crimes, albeit to varying degrees.

[Thumper]

Yep, Muslims have been in France for an eternity. I've been to France twice ... great country TO VISIT ... but I disagree with their politics. Heck, there are areas a cabbie won't even take you! As far as their "Muslim problem" ... they can fault nobody but themselves. Parts of their country are controlled by Muslims and in the usual pussy Frog way, the Frenchies won't even enter the neighborhoods and have absolutely no control over what goes on there. These neighborhoods are breeding grounds for Muslim Extremists and could actually be considered "countries within a country". Britain is getting almost as bad IMHO.

Study up on ... crap, I think they're called "No-Go Zones" or sumpin' like that. (I'll Google it and if I'm wrong, I'll edit here)

[LJ3]

Posthole made me smarter by suggesting the book, Six Frigates. Not only does it teach about the start of the US Navy. It covers how Jefferson and our infant Republic used that tiny Navy to put Muslim (pirate/terrorists/radicals) in their place and to not F with the US.

I have a question for you more well read types. I hope revealing my ignorance on the subject doesn't have you thinking less of me. Enough with the self-deprecating remarks already!

Were not the Crusades a murderous waging of military action against others in the name of Christianity (Catholicism, specifically)?

How did Christianity correct itself? Why did the crusades stop? How long did it take?

Seems to me there could be a lesson or two in there for making informed decisions around stopping radical islamists. Yes, I know there are plenty of differences between the two things and not a complete apples to apples comparison but certainly there are some similarities that should be looked at more closely.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There weren't just one and they were for a bunch of different reasons. The main one though was to restore the holy lands to christendom. And yeah they were bloody. But they were also about trade and some basic other reason people go to war too so its not fair to blame all of it on religion. Now, they were sanctioned by the pope so.......

Muhammed started it and the whole of the divilized world was once under threat of an arab/muslim war. They conquered at least as large a territory as the Romans. I haven't actually done much studying up onthat part of it though. Be an interesting read though if anyone has!
BKB

[Buckrub]

Yes, the Crusades (this is my OPINION) were started by RADICAL Christians, who perverted true Christianity, and thought that the only way to win against Islam was to eradicate it physically.

If they do that today, I and many other Christians will take to the streets in protest of such evil and wrong actions. I do not answer to the Pope of Rome, and do not believe he speaks for me, and would not take up arms against an ideology.

However, if radical elements of that ideology attempt to physically annihilate me, or any group, and will not cease.......I as a CITIZEN will attempt to destroy them to make them cease.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, the arabs had a stranglehold on the whole of the Meditteranean. That was the real reason for most of the crusades opening ports for european trade that the caliphates had locked down. Now in those days the Pope had as much economic skin in the game as most countries so religion amd defeating the infidels was just a handy ass excuse.

BKB

[Buckrub]

No doubt. But I also am sure he believed he was eradicating the Devil. I imagine both concepts were in play, big time.

[quercus alba]

Charles "The Hammer" Martel. A truly superior statesman. He could probably reason a peaceful solution with ISIS.




or not. I think he ascribed to the "kill them all and let God sort them out" philosophy. My kind of politician

[DeputyDog]

There are a lot of similarities between the Crusades and what is currently happening in the world.

The Muslims had taken over the Christian Holy Land and were expelling or killing the Christians that were there and making it so that Christians could not visit what they considered the most holy places on earth. They were also doing everything to expand their territory and they had in fact managed to take over most of Spain and all of Eastern Europe and made it almost all the way to Austria and had their sights set on conquering more territory.

Part of it was economics to open up the trade routes and ports in the Med like Barry said, and with the Western and Eastern Christian churches at that time having such a sway in the politics of the world the kings or whomever wanted to start the Crusade got the approval of the Pope or Eastern Patriarch to go ahead and do it.

This is much like ISIS wants to do now. They want to reconquer every land that had previously been held by Muslims, including those lands in Europe, and they are currently killing or driving out every Christian in the land that they control now.

I heard about a good book on the Crusades recently that was supposed to be looking at them through the eyes of the times and not with the current political correct vision that we are all supposed to have. I can't remember the title but will put it on here if I can find what it was.