Dealer damaged car

[johnboy]

What would you do or what would you expect the dealer to do if they had your vehicle (wifes RAV) overnight and it got damaged while on their lot? Last Thurs night, while her car was in for a service and they asked to keep it overnight, "someone" backed into the passenger side rear bumper and did a fair amount of damage.

Of course they were sorry and apologetic and all that and will have it repaired and give us a loaner and blah, blah, blah but we now have a car with damage that will reduce the sell price when we decide to get rid of it. Pisses me off to no end!

[Thumper]

That sucks, but not much you can do about it since they're taking care of it. (just like an insurance claim if you have an accident) When you trade cars, trade it to that same dealer and dare him to penalize you for prior damage.

[johnboy]

Yeah, I pretty much figured that there isn't much I can do about lost value but I am going to suggest that they cover the next few maintenance visits gratis or somesuch.

My next vehicle will NOT be a Toyota.

[Arty]

If nothing else was learned.... DO NOT BUY A TOYOTA!!!

See. It was worth it!

[Thumper]

Well, so much for trading to the same dealer.

(Note: It wasn't the car's fault) ;)

[johnboy]

Actually my next vehicle will most likely be a new truck. Big Brown is 15 years old now and getting a little long in the tooth. Still runs great and looks the same but I just wouldn't trust it for a long trailer trip which we would like to do seeing as we have a new trailer sitting in the driveway doing nothing. I'm looking at heavy duty diesels (Ford and GM) and will probably get a Bucky truck. Toyota still doesn't make what I want for rv towing.

Anyway, I know the recent damage wasn't the cars fault and it's been pretty good (not great but good) but I just don't want another Toyota. Maybe it's the dealer I have here but I don't like dealing with them. The reason the car was at the dealer this time was to be assessed for a new transmission. This is a 2011 vehicle with 36K miles on it and has never been abused but the trans whines like a spoilt 2 year old. There is a Toyota TSB about this very problem but it has taken me MONTHS to get them to admit that there is a problem and to finally ok a trans replacement. Been other small things (leaky shocks, crappy radio reception etc.) that I didn't expect from a 'quality' manufacturer so maybe I'm just a bit disillusioned with the whole outfit. Actually had a new Avalon as a rental last xmas in Vegas and liked it so maybe it's just this car.

Anyway, we'll get this one fixed and move on from there.

[Thumper]

Wow! Odd you should mention the Avalon. We had a 2007 Avalon and loved it ... although it was one of the most boring (to look at) cars we've ever owned. Then the 2013 came out and it looked pretty snazzy, so we traded the old Avalon for a new Avalon. This is the first Toyota we've ever had (out of 20+ Toyotas) that we come VERY close to hating! Oh, we haven't had a lick of a problem with it ... mechanically, it's a beast ... drives well, runs like a champ, reliable, etc. etc. etc. So what's wrong? After we'd lived with it for a while and we'd both bitch and moan about it constantly, I finally decided whomever designed the new Avalon needs to be taken out, horsewhipped and then SHOT! What a miserable POS ... the seats are uncomfortable as all get-out ... even with elebenty electric seat adjustments including lumbar. MISERABLE! There is absolutely ZERO storage. The glovebox is big enough for ... well, maybe a pair of gloves. The side pockets on the doors don't hold anything these days other than a few folded up paper towels and a couple of wadded up plastic grocery bags. The ONLY storage is the console and even that is very limited. Don't even get me started on the worthless frigging trunk! It won't hold much more than a couple of carry-on bags, but the main problem is, the bottom lip of the trunk comes waaaay up and the hangy-down lip on the trunk lid itself protrudes way down and almost meets the lower section with the lid completely up. You have to actually wrestle your luggage to simply get it INTO the trunk ... then try to play Junior Engineer to arrange them in a way you can squeeze in a few small items.

It rides/drives as well as the old Avalon, runs like a bat-out-of-hell ... like the old Avalon, gets great mileage like the old Avalon and looks much sexier than the old Avalon ... but the engineering of the interior and amenities sucks HUGE weenies! So much so that I went on-line to find out if we were the only ones who absolutely hated the car because of it.

Here's the first thing I stumbled across on the net:

Regionally-focused design, engineering, and manufacturing effort!

The new 2013 Avalon is the result of a North American-focused design and engineering effort. The new sedan’s dramatic exterior and interior design was conceived by a youthful and talented team at the Calty Design Research Inc. facilities in Southern California and Michigan. The car’s engineering development was principally led by a passionate and dedicated group based at Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Mich. Continuing a North American focused theme, the 2013 Avalon will be assembled at Toyota’s facility in Georgetown, Ky.

WTF??? I should have known! Although the really important part (the engine/drivetrain) is all Toyota, it's the first Toyota (body/interior) that was totally designed in America ... by American engineers! ARRRRGGGHHHH! If I wanted a fucking Chevrolet, I'd buy a fucking Chevy! Toyota ... don't turn your cars into frigging American junk. You can build 'em here ... but please don't design 'em here! What a suck-ass idea that was! We can't wait to trade this uncomfortable POS ... but it's not even two years old yet, so we'll be stuck with it for a year or two more ... unless I decide to cut my losses and trade it on a different model. Maybe a Highlander this time. (?)

[Niner]

Jimmy, I can SO see you in a Camry.

[Thumper]

Niner, I've been trying to talk Lynn into a Camry for years. In fact, I wanted her to get a Camry when we bought the first Avalon, but she's a woman ... she never looks at the practical side. I look at utility/practicality as well as resale value and there's no car on earth that can surpass the Camry in that last category. In fact, when her mom needed a new car, we recommended the Camry and she bought one ... and loves it. It's like when Lynn wanted an SUV ('93) ... I was leaning toward the 4Runner but she HAD to have the Sequoia. Of course we were driving that gas-guzzling beast when the price of gas shot to $4.00/gal. almost overnight and we took it in the shorts when we traded it ... ON THE FIRST AVALON! Oh yeah, the two cars before the Sequoia were Chevies ... both Corvettes! Now those were practical grocery-getters! ;)

Back in the day, I'd always buy the car that she'd drive. Somewhere along the line I stepped back and let her decide what SHE wants to drive ... it's been 'Vette, 'Vette, Sequoia, Avalon, Avalon so far. Hmmm, now that I look at that, maybe it's the high price sticker she's attracted to. Ok, ok ... I "may" have had a little to do with the 'Vette choices ... or at least I didn't fight the idea. ;)

I may have to grow my balls back after the POS we have now. Don't get me wrong, it's a VERY nice car ... but the interior design and trunk especially ... could have been done better by a bunch of high school engineer wannabe's. The fit/finish is beautiful ... the utility/comfort sucks dog turds. At least nothing breaks and falls off for no reason, like every Chevy I've ever had ... INCLUDING the 'Vettes.

[Buckrub]

I'm writing this from the coronary ICU. Jim dissed a Toyota.

Jim........maybe........just MAYBE........you might sorta, kinda, a LITTLE BIT, translate your opinion of that Avalon into a valid "Reliability vs. Functionality" discussion? You think MAYBE?? Just a LITTLE?

Dang, son. This is the same argument I've made for years, and every time I do, you say "BUT, the Toyota is reliable!". But it ain't functional!!! It doesn't do what I need done! GEEZ!

I feel SO vindicated....even with the Big Heart Attack that Jimmy just gave me.

If Toyota reliability is 98% on some scale, and Chevy is 95%, but the Toyota is NOT functional, and the Chevy is........well, which one should I buy? Let me see..........um..........

If it wasn't so far, I think I'd drive down there today and strike your large nose.

[Thumper]

Ummm, I don't think I've EVER complained about functionality .., except for THIS car ... and my main point is, it's the first time Toyota released a car that was 100% designed by American engineers ... 100% designed and built in America BY Americans. It's that exact combination that pushed me into Japanese cars in the first place. It's an "American" car bolted onto a Toyota chassis. (the drive train hasn't changed) I had no clue it was designed here until I went on the net to see if everyone hated it as much as I do. Then I discovered WHY I hate it. If it ain't broke ... don't "fix" it ... and they broke it IMHO! Why?

I believe you missed my whole point ... as well as inserted something that never existed. I've never, ever complained about functionality before (just the opposite actually). Where did that come from?

This ain't a "Toyota" design and it's extremely obvious ... well, the drive train is still Toyota ... and I have zero, zilch, nada complaints in that department.

[Buckrub]

I'm rolling....

never mind, Jimbo. Toyota's are the bestest ever!!! Carry completely on! You da man.

:)

[Thumper]

I've worked with American (GM) engineers. I've worked with American (GM) designers. I've worked with American (GM) automotive "Top Brass". I've worked WITH them and I worked FOR them for 20 years. They are a bunch of arrogant assholes who thought for years their shit didn't stink no matter how many people tried to convince them it did. Then one day they woke up and realized it really did stink to high heaven and they've been playing catch-up ever since. They're just lucky Obama had no qualms about using OUR money to bail 'em out of the cesspool they've been digging for themselves all these years.

[johnboy]

I think that the present day Toyotas are not in the same 'reliability' bracket as the older models. They are OK but not anything special anymore. Just another car.

[Thumper]

To be honest Johnboy ... it's getting to be that way. The big question is, why did it take "us" so long to catch up? And how and why did we get so far behind in the first place? There was a day when mucky-mucks didn't drive BMW's and Mercedes' ... the prestigious car to own was a Cadillac ... of if you were still working yourself up the ladder ... a Lincoln. The warning signs were everywhere but the American automakers thought they owned the market and continued producing junk. I lived it ... I worked it ... it was junk. When people had had enough ... they moved on and we were caught with our pants down wondering what the f... happened.

I was always an "American Made" guy ... 100% ... until I got tired of buying junk. I finally made my decision to jump ship when gas shot up to $1.00/gallon (HA!) and I wanted to drive something economical. I went to the Chevy dealer and drove a VEGA! I'm just glad I wasn't stupid enough to fall for that one. The next step up was a Monza. Sheesh! I thought, is THIS the best we can do? After the test drive, I told my salesman to watch me for the next 5 minutes (he'd pissed me off by being pushy and trying the high-pressure crap). I walked out of the showroom and walked across Ventura Blvd. to the Datsun dealer across the street. Three hours later I drove out of their driveway in a new car. That was 1975 ... I switched to Toyota in 1981.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I took my wife's 4Runner in this week for a recall on the remote starter and they gave me Corolla loaner for the day. Reminded me a bit of my old 81 Celica that I drove the wheels off of. Of course the Celica had more balls than this little Corolla did but it was fun to drive a peppy little car for a day. I'm still a truck guy though. I don't think I'd ever be happy driving a car all the time.
BKB

[Thumper]

The '81 I mentioned above was a 4WD pick-up ... it's all I've driven since. I ALWAYS drive a truck, Lynn gets the car and we use that for any traveling we do together. Of course, when I had my business, I'd have 5 trucks at any given time. We're considering dumping the Avalon on a ... I don't know, do they still call them "cross-overs"? The van/suv/stationwagon thingies. Thinking about the Highlander.

http://reviewcars2015.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-Toyota-Highlander-Hybrid-availability.jpg

[Thumper]

BTW Postie, I used to drive a Celica from time to time. In the 80's, we were making convertibles out of them. That little Celica GT was a fun car to drive ... and totally bulletproof!

Well dang! I just did a quick search and found a pic of an '80 Celica my dad built!

4286

[Thumper]

Later dufes ... Lynn's birthday is Tuesday and we're getting a head start. Gonna head to Tampa for a nice meal. Somebody bring out the fibrillator thingy and charge those paddles up for Bucky ... we may have lost him. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

It had the cornerstone drive train that made Toyota's chops in the 80s and 90s, the 22r motor and an indestructible 5 speed tranny. The Celica I had would also handle well on curvy roads.
BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

and Jim, have them pull out the highlander and 4Runner and compare them side by side. It's no contest. Plus the 4Runner chassis and drive train is the same one as the Tacoma which makes it a no brainer.
BKB

[Thumper]

Still waiting for Lynn to get dressed. Yeah, the 4Runner is on the truck chassis and the Highlander is a car chassis. I think she's looking more for the "van thing" than the "SUV thing". I'm with you though, personally.

[Buckrub]

I'm writing this from the coronary ICU. Jim dissed a Toyota.

Jim........maybe........just MAYBE........you might sorta, kinda, a LITTLE BIT, translate your opinion of that Avalon into a valid "Reliability vs. Functionality" discussion? You think MAYBE?? Just a LITTLE?

Dang, son. This is the same argument I've made for years, and every time I do, you say "BUT, the Toyota is reliable!". But it ain't functional!!! It doesn't do what I need done! GEEZ!

I feel SO vindicated....even with the Big Heart Attack that Jimmy just gave me.

If Toyota reliability is 98% on some scale, and Chevy is 95%, but the Toyota is NOT functional, and the Chevy is........well, which one should I buy? Let me see..........um..........

If it wasn't so far, I think I'd drive down there today and strike your large nose.

I'm sorry. I'm fine. That was a JOKE, meaning "I'm taken aback".............I was in a hurry.

It just made me amazed that Jim would say anything negative about a Toyota, period. Especially since the ONLY thing negative I EVER said was that they are not functional for me.........no matter how reliable they are/were. That argument never worked, all I got was "BUT Toyota's are so reliable!!". Yeah, I Know..........but they don't FUNCTION the way I need one to function.

Anyway, sorry to have confused. I'll try to be more literal.

[johnboy]

Frankly, from my admittedly limited experience, I don't think that they are all that reliable either.

[Buckrub]

Mine either. But then, they don't believe Scotsmen, so..................

:)

[Thumper]

Ummm, I think you hear what you want to hear Buckney and the rest just rolls off like water on a duck's back. Have I never said something along the lines of, "If you need a monster diesel dually to pull your 35,000 lb. travel trailer ... a 'Yota prolly ain't in your future? If you're pulling your bass boat or weekend travel trailer ... the Tundra will fill the bill nicely.

Yep ... they're a POS and I have no clue how they stay in business. I'm sure Emperor Akihito has an emergency fund set aside to bail Toyota out when they go belly up as I'm sure it's coming. Isn't that what happens to companies that produce crap and expect the public to blindly buy into their b/s? ;)

[johnboy]

Jeesh Jim, drink the Toyota koolaide much? No matter if it is grape, Toyota does not make the kind of truck some of us want and IMHO they are running on reliability creds they no longer deserve. Just another manufacturer, nobody said POS. Chill man.

[Thumper]

I understand completely Johnboy ... I just don't like having words put in my mouth by being misquoted. I'm funny that way. ;)

[Buckrub]

I love this. SO.........y'all estimate how often we do this. Monthly? Semi? Quarterly? Seriously!!! I'm honest to gosh laughing, cause this is funny, and in a good way. I mean......we're arguing over FRIGGING AUTOMOBILES! Yeah! We are.

But I don't know who you're accusing of putting words in your mouth. Heck, I can't do that.......the chicken takes up all the room! (Kaboom)

Here's MY memory and summation of every one of these conversations:

Me (and others): I like Toyota's. I wish I owned one. But they aren't functional for me.

Thump: That's nuts. They are the most reliable vehicle you can imagine.

Me (and others): Well, I/we have had some bad experiences with them, so they DO break down.

Thump: Well, that's an anomaly caused by space aliens. They are the most reliable vehicles made.

Me (and others): Well, they are just too small.

Thump: No, they're not. They're every bit as big as anything you could want. See, here's the spec sheet. And by the way, they're the most reliable vehicle on Earth.

Me (and others): Well, they surely are good vehicles. I'd love to own one. But you'd have to give it to me, cause if I'm spending my money, I want one that does the things I want, in comfort. Besides, every Chevy I've ever owned was more reliable than any Japanese vehicle I ever owned.

Thump: That's poppycock. They're HIGHLY reliable and every bit as big as some of the American vehicles.

And so it goes. Now, I'm sure I remember all that wrong. Heck, I am probably (no probably to it! :)) putting words in Thump's mouth. Sort of like he's doing with Johnboy's ghost claim that Hirohito has an emergency fund for them, or that they are a POS..........

P.S.
You're arguing using a time honored tactic of Liberals. It's used here a LOT. If someone disagrees with your pet theory, claim that they made a much more radical statement than they really did. E.G., Toyota's 98% reliability factor is not shared by many folks, and even if it were true, it won't make up for their complete lack of functionality some of us need. And no, I don't mean pulling a 11,000 lb. travel trailer or a stock trailer. I just mean the simple acts of everyday truck use. I don't think they can compete in that area, but maybe Posthole can answer once he pulls his boat to Dogtooth with his allegedly new Tundra.

[Thumper]

And after I accuse you of "putting words in my mouth" ... you come out with that post attributing exaggerated b/s statements to "someone" called Thump. I rest my case.

I know, I know .... tongue in cheek, right? Maybe we need to start using tiny, unreadable print disclaimers at the end of our posts. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

And always remember to always see a doctor for an erection lasting more than four hours.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Now THAT is a boffo idea.

This post made in jest, for sole purpose of humor, and is not to be taken seriously, or cause you to call me names.

[johnboy]

And in true GH fashion, this thread morphed into a 'discussion' on the capabilities and reliability of Toyota vehicles when it isn't actually even about Toyota. It was about what to do when the dealer, any dealer, damages a vehicle left in their care. How much jumping up and down and screaming incoherently should a person do?

[Thumper]

Not really sure Johnboy. I gave you my answer, but that doesn't mean you can't ask (nicely) for some sort of "compensation". Like you mentioned ... a few free oil changes or services ... whatever. They've really done their part and as an outsider looking in, you've been taken care of. As a car owner myself, I can TOTALLY relate to YOUR feelings.

Back when we were driving BMW's, Lynn was on her way to work and was hit by a dude who ran a red light. The insurance company fixed the car and I know for a fact, they did an excellent job (I checked it with a fine-toothed comb), I got screwed at trade-in time. We went in to trade on another BMW and the dealer gigged us on the trade-in value because the LF fender had been replaced (no VIN on the part). I told the dealer to shove his appraisal where the sun don't shine and traded it for a Corvette. (that dealer never mentioned the fender)

So, from experience, I know exactly what your problem is. Maybe, in my case, I should have asked the insurance company for the cash difference given at trade-in ... but I doubt it'd have gone anywhere. It sucks no matter how you look at it.

[Trav]

And always remember to always see a doctor for an erection lasting more than four hours.

BKB. If you have an erection for 4 hours you don't need a doctor you need a vagina.

[Buckrub]

. If you have an erection for 4 hours you don't need a doctor you need a vagina.

Not according to my experiences.

You need about twelve of the things.

[BarryBobPosthole]

One of my favorite lines from Lonesome Dove, said by a whore that just shot a patron........"if you can't squirt your squirt in two minutes you don't need a whore you need a doctor!"

BKB

[quercus alba]

And always remember to always see a doctor for an erection lasting more than four hours.

BKB


If I have an erection lasting more than four hours I'm going on Youtube, David Letterman and Oprah

[Thumper]

Huh?? Now I'm confused. Aren't erections SUPPOSED to last 4 hours or more? Are you sayin' there's sumpin' wrong with me? ;)

[Trav]

Huh?? Now I'm confused. Aren't erections SUPPOSED to last 4 hours or more? Are you sayin' there's sumpin' wrong with me? ;)

Jimbo,

Having one in you doesn't count.

[BarryBobPosthole]

^LIKE^

[Thumper]

Youse guys need to go borrow Cappy's stool ... he doesn't need it. ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Cause he has a stump?