Captain

[Buckrub]

http://www.live5news.com/story/26285154/south-carolina-reduces-limits-for-deer-hunting-season

The Arkansas hunting board that I frequent is in a constant 'argument' online among themselves, ourselves, about why the deer population of Arkansas is down so far. AGFC tells us that the harvest is a record, over 200,000 killed. Yet, every hunter in South Arkansas (the traditionally deer rich area of the state) almost to a man says that they see 20 deer a year in places they used to see 20 deer a day. It's that way at our lease, to some degree. Yes, folks kill a deer, and it gets checked and counted...........and the AGFC folks attitude is "As long as we're harvesting record numbers, what's the problem?"

Many of the hunters are up in arms (pardon the pun) wanting to shorten the season.......that's their primary suggestion to fix things. Secondarily they want to reduce the 6 doe limit in S. Arkansas, but shortening the season is big push.

I, and others, have pointed out that South Carolina has the longest season in the USA, and their herd is doing ok. They have countered with statements that their herd is NOT doing ok, and the SC Legislature is intervening to try and make limits, etc. They quote the above URL/reference as one case of proof.

I am MOST interested in your take on this issue. I can think of no one more qualified to comment on this.

What is your opinion of the current state of the SC deer herd?
How has that herd changed over the last few years?
What impact does the extremely long season have, good or bad?

Thanks.

[Big Muddy]

I'll wait for Cap's response, but I have my doubts about Mr. Thornley's coyote comment....I just doubt that there's been a decline in the coyote population, ANYWHERE in the U.S....jmho.


""""Personally this year I've seen a lot more does and fawns on my property than I have in past years,” Thornley said “It seems to be an increase, but I've also noticed a decline in the coyotes in the area.""""

[Buckrub]

Coyotes are taking over Earth.

[Captain]

I really have not noticed any decrease of deer on the farm. I was not aware they are thinking about limiting the amount of doe deer per year.
It has always been unlimited here and never seemed to hurt the population even with the longest season in the US.
That said I will say we have noticed a increase in coyotes in the area. Just on the farm this year I shot 4 (one really bigun) I think both Chicken Dinner and Arty shot one each also.
I would not think hunting would be the reason the population may be declining as there is such a long track record of unlimited hunting. Probably habitat reduction, wild hogs damage to the habitat and an increase of coyotes would be my guess.
15 years ago we did not have coyotes or wild hogs. It may be necessary for SC to put a limit on deer. Looks like from your article they have already reduced the amount of days you can shoot does and cut the daily harvest to 1 per day on those selected days? I was unaware of this. I receive a handful of doe tags every year for the farm that can be used any day during the hunting season.
Bucks have always been unlimited per season? Wonder if they are going to limit them now too.
There is no "tags" or limits or check in here so I really don't know how they will control a limit if they set one.

[Big Muddy]

Just as I thought....Cap's seeing an "increase", not a "decline", in the coyote population.

Evidently, Mr. Thornley doesn't spend as much time in the woods, as Cap does.

[Buckrub]

Cappy, can I quote that.........reproduce it..........on the Arkansas board?? Edit out the names, etc..........


????

[Buckrub]

Cappy, here is the 'protagonist' view there:...............fyi........

Are you kidding me…. South Carolina has 9 typical deer entered in the B&C book. a 176, 173, 172, 170, 169, 167, 163, 160, and a 160… Thats all..
It has only 3 entered in the non tip listing, 208,205,187…

South Carolina is The only southern state worst than Alabama just now recovering from that buck a day fiasco of the last few years…

Alabama is far behind the rest of the Southern states, ( except South Carolina) with 17 typical and 11 non typs
By comparison NORTH Carolina sharing a border with South Carolina has 22 Typicals starting with the state record 181 tip and 5 Nontyp starting with a 228…

Thats not game management thats killing them all…. and hoping for the best….

[Captain]

Sure you can Bucky.
I guess the trophy hunters want to make some big deal out of SC and Alabama not having a lot of "book" bucks.
I have no problem with them looking down their noses. Most folks here shoot what they want. I for one have never tried to assign a size on what someone shoots. I personally hang and try to shoot big bucks, but at times if I need a piece of meat I'll shoot a peckerhead in a New York minute.
I'm all about letting people shoot what they want. If someone is deer hunting and they see a deer and want to shoot it who the hell am I to have an opinion on their kill.
I can honestly say I've let as more bucks walk than most folks would ever see. But just because I let him walk today don't mean I won't let the air out of him next week if he comes by again.
Sure I like to shoot big deer, but more importantly to me is I just want to hunt. Those folks that look down others cause they shoot a smaller rack deer are not in the same boat with me.

[Chicken Dinner]

Those peckerheads better not let Cappy catch them rubbing one of his hardwood saplings either...

[Captain]

Those peckerheads better not let Cappy catch them rubbing one of his hardwood saplings either...
Amen!!!
That will get em shot as quick and anything.

[Captain]

Bucky you got me wondering if things had changed in my game zone so I looked it up.
The bucks are still unlimited.
The does ARE limited to one per doe day (or any day with the farm tags.)
Did not know this.
Not that I ever shoot does but I keep the farm tags available here for kids when they hunt. I want them to be able to shoot whatever they see.


4335

[Buckrub]

Thanks very much LP. I will edit and reproduce. Your attitude on killing is the SAME as mine here in Arkansas. BUT, the guys who are seeing fewer and fewer deer are also the ones that are wanting changes that mostly benefit BIGGER bucks. It is sort of a mystery to me. ONLY when they/we started complaining about seeing so fewer deer did the argument ensue........but the argument to fix the declining deer herd is made by guys who's real interest is shooting Booners. Those guys actually believe that this is everyone's goal, and are aghast if anyone disagrees.

I see nothing changing here, but your comments should help. Thanks!

[HideHunter]

Take my word for it - the whole "big buck" can get to be a real PIA. You become some kind of pariah if you shoot anything less than a 4 1/2 year-old deer -and it doesn't matter if he is a scraggly buck that is like never going to amount anything because "he may 'blow-up' at 6 years".

When I was a kid - we had few deer and no coyotes. 15 years ago we had a very good deer population with a reasonable number of "good bucks". Then "bow-hunting" became "bow-religion". The "big Names" started buying property. 10 years of all the $10 doe tags you want and the big names started QDM. Lee and Tiffany alone bought 200 doe tags in one season. Couple that with a Farm Bureau that is constantly pushing for more liberal seasons. Throw in an over-population of coyotes... a little blue tongue.. and suddenly everyone is crying because there are no deer.

[Buckrub]

Well, I've been labeled an idiot and crazy for my views over there. They just demand that the season be shortened or the deer will be extinct. However, every single one of them are 100% unwilling to shorten the existing 154 day Bow Season! They say that they are not a big enough factor to matter. (In other words, don't gore MY ox!)

SO, I'm done with them on that discussion. Thanks though. And it was good to hear a couple of hunters that I respect, here, stating hunting philosophies that I espouse also.

[Big Muddy]

Most of what has been said, is the very reason that I am no longer a member of any organized hunting clubs....I'd rather hunt on 40 acres of leased or owned land, and follow my own rules, than put up with all the arguing, jealousy, and drama, which exists in most hunting clubs.

Fortunately, the Good Lord has blessed me with the means to buy a few acres through the years, and I thank Him daily for that priviledge.

I went squirrel hunting on a 15,000 acre hunting club, about two weeks ago....it's one of those very high-dollar, inside the MS River levee clubs, which owner/memberships cost $500,000 just to join, and another $10,000 annual maintenance fee....Sandy and I really felt out of place, but the hunting is fantastic because only a few of the 40 members ever set foot in the woods....most of 'em just sit on their fat azzes on the big lodge veranda, drinking martinis and smoking cigars.

While walking and hunting, I talked to our host, and here are their deer hunting rules, "per membership":

> Must kill three does, during the first season, before shooting ANY buck....$1,000 fine, if you screw up, and shoot a nubbin'.
> One big buck, per year, 10 point or larger, and must score over 130 B&C....you forfeit your big buck for the next "two years", if you screw up.
> One mgmt. buck, per year, 8 point or smaller, and can't score over 130 B&C...you forfeit your mgmt. buck for the "next year", if you screw up.
> No guests, during the first and last week of the season.

There were some other ridiculous-as-sheeit rules, which I don't even remember, but you get my drift....I'd get my azz kicked out pretty quick. ;)

[Buckrub]

I know a guy who has an uncle that used to work for a man that lived next door to a woman that was married to the brother of a guy that was in one of those clubs.

P.S.
If I showed you what was killed 150 yards from my little 80 acres this past year, you'd croak!

P.S.S.
Best yet, after I got lambasted on there, I got about 5 PM's from folks saying 'HEY, we agree with you. Those other guys are selfish a&&holes, and probably break every rule that they want the REST of us to have to follow". That made me feel good...at least enough that I don't feel so stupid as they tried to make me feel. Your and Cappy's and HH's comments about hunting are..........well, there's ONE high compliment I can give, and that is "I'd go hunting with you". And to you three, and others, I unhesitatingly give said comment.

[Big Muddy]

I don't understand all of what you just said, more specifically, your last sentence....did you just give us a compliment, or tell us to kiss your azz??? ;)

[Buckrub]

A high compliment. I said I'd hunt with you guys. Not many I would say that to.

[Big Muddy]

Then, thank you very much....I wanna hunt with you, too....errr, I mean Sandy wants to come hunt squirrels at your farm, before the season ends....hint, hint. ;)

[Buckrub]

Gotta stop all the ice and crap first........ I don't know when I'm going back. I'm waiting on the Lessor to tell me that A) the rain has stopped and B) it's too wet for him to be in the fields. Unfortunately, I'm betting that is not for another 10 days, and that means squirrel season is over for 6 weeks, or whatever it is.

We need to plan something.........hard to do spur of the moment with my Rock Star schedule! :) I'd sure like to do it!

[Big Muddy]

That's okay....if the season is closed, we can just tell the warden, "We're just exercising the dog, and we are carrying the guns, just in case a squirrel attacks her."....works every time, down here. ;)

[Buckrub]

It does?

Great! Then let's hunt YOUR place! :)

[Big Muddy]

Haul yo big butt on down here. ;)