Electrical Question

[Buckrub]

Which is better:

1) Replacing some of the old 2 prong electrical outlets at the Farm house with normal 'grounded' outlets, knowing that they won't be grounded of course (unless I can figure out how to ground the green screw to the metal box)

or

2) Just using the two-to-three adapters to plug in newer appliances?

FWIW, I have good 2000 joule or better surge protectors plugged into most outlets there, including all kitchen stuff, TV in living room, etc.......and there's a newer section of house with grounded plugs. But for the older part of house, which of the two is better? Only thing plugged in to any of the older 2 prong stuff would be electric skillet maybe, blender, radio, etc......... HOWEVER, if we decided to get a landline there (under consideration), we might get a DSL modem for internet via that line, and the sole plug near the RJ11 jack is the old kind.......which concerns me.

[Captain]

Well it certainly ain't gonna do nothing to"figure out how to ground the green screw to the metal box" if that metal box ain't grounded and just attached to a stud with nails? Screwing a ground wire to it is a waste of time.

[Captain]

If I say the only real safe thing would be to have them rewired with new wire with addition of the ground, what would you say?

[Niner]

Goooooood question there Bucky.
Lemme see if I have this right. SOME of the outlets in the house are wired with grounded receptacles, and SOME of the house....which is "older" still has the old-school receptacles with no grounding (2 vertical slots). Right???

OK, so you say that the only thing(s) that are (or would be) plugged into the 2-prong outlets are appliances that just use 2-prong cords anyways.....skillet, blender, radio, etc... The only "wrinkle" you say might be plugging a DSL modem in.....right??? Well, the power supplies for the DSL modems that I have used have been regular "wall wart" kind of power adapters that just use two prongs anyway (ungrounded). SO, I think you'd be fine in that regard.

Unless I am missing something, it sounds like you are OK the way you are for now.

I think I have asked you this before, but I don't remember.... Do you own a multimeter?

Personally, I would NOT put a three prong (grounded) recepticle on a circuit that is ungrounded. It's a safety issue. Someone at sometime would think the circut was grounded and it would not be. Actually .....techindally speakinfg you're 2-wire circuits "are" grounded.....the Neutral (white) wire is being used as ground....but I'm NOT going to go into the theory of it right now. Those circuits have HOT (black) and Neutral (white) in there.

Question about you're asking about using the 2-to-3 prong adapter thingers....is there some appliance or widget that you have that has a 3-prong cord that you want to plug into one of the 2-prong outlets?????

[Buckrub]

How do y'all do the multiple quote thing?

Cappy, 100% agree on total rewire. Simply can't afford to rewire 1/3 of the house. Wish I could. Remember, I have an estimate of $1,000 to come rewire the stove and the oven! This is the only electrician in miles.

I also agree that wiring to the box is futile if the box is not grounded. I get that.

And Conine makes good sense. Maybe better, cheaper, to just use the adapters till I can afford to get it rewired. SOME, a few, of the devices I need to plug in have 3 prong male plugs. One is an electric skillet. But if we get the landline, I'll need to plug a modem in. Yes, I know some of the newer stuff is self grounded, or whatever, and doesn't need a 3rd grounding plug.

No, I'm NOT an electrician. But I can replace an outlet.

[BaseballCoach (Rev A)]

Changing to 3 prong outlets even without the 3rd prong grounded can have benefits. Low draw items like a lamp or radio, no problem using a adapter. Higher draw items like a space heater could be an issue with an adapter. Most adapters are cheaply made and do not make a tight, solid connection when plugged into an outlet. Loose connection plus higher draw equals heat. I have seen them get too hot to touch and never trip the breaker. Put in the 3 prong outlets and eliminate the change of a loose connection. Just MHO.

[Thumper]

Bucky, Bucky, Bucky! What persactly do you mean by "re-wiring" the stove/oven?


Are you saying the plug on the stove will not fit into the receptacle? If so, just change the frigging pigtail.

I have a garage full of 'em ... I'll throw one into a Large Flat Rate Priority Mail Box for $15.80! :D

(or are you talking about re-wiring and installing a 50 Amp circuit into the fuse box?)

[Buckrub]

Baseball Coach.......you're missing out on the fun. Proving me an idiot is the goal! And it's SO EASY! Anyone can do it! Go ahead, try it. (But I may just change one or two receptacles out anyway..........99.999999% of GoodHunting would do this, and never say one word here about it. ME? Nahh........no fun that way. Give 'em a pin cushion.......lay your head on the sacrificial lamb's pillow).

I'm joking.........I get a lot of help here. And I know less than most about most things, no doubt. But I'm not as dumb as they think I am............usually!

And Jim, Jim, Jim!!!!!!!! Your memory is as sort as my Johnson! Do you not remember when I had an electrician come out because the stove and oven (on same circuit) just quit? He said the wiring under the house had dry rotted!! And to replace it he had to run a new run through the attic, and the labor, etc., would cost $1,000???? (This is at the farm) No way I can afford that. So, I'm cooking on an electric skillet and toaster oven, and may get one of the NuWave thingies,. etc........... Fast forward..........some of these things have 3 prong male plugs, and some (not all) of the kitchen receptacles are old 2 prong. There's a remodeled part of this house, and an old part. So some of both.

You with me now?

[Arty]

Go to Home Depot and buy 100$ worth of wire (depending on how far the run is from the stove to the breaker box) and then give that 3rd cousin of the late father in law who farms/lives there $100 bill and tell him to get under the house and pull the wire. Seriously easy stuff. I guarantee you could pull it up in YouTube.

Pulling new wire for an existing circuit (even heavy wire like for an oven) isn't that bad.

Seriously. $1,000? That seems absurd. But what do I know ? (Really. I could be wrong, maybe that is the going price).

[Buckrub]

Go to Home Depot and buy 100$ worth of wire (depending on how far the run is from the stove to the breaker box) and then give that 3rd cousin of the late father in law who farms/lives there $100 bill and tell him to get under the house and pull the wire. Seriously easy stuff. I guarantee you could pull it up in YouTube.

Pulling new wire for an existing circuit (even heavy wire like for an oven) isn't that bad.

Seriously. $1,000? That seems absurd. But what do I know ? (Really. I could be wrong, maybe that is the going price).

It is. But this is Middle Earth, and no competitors. They said it might be half that, but it WOULD take 2 guys all day, and 2 guys labor costs is not cheap even for them.

The guy you mention (wife's cousin's boy) was standing there the whole time. He ain't got time for electrical work, he's a farmer. Plus, he probably doesn't know much more about it than I do.

All that said, I've seriously thought of running my own wire. This is an OLD OLD OLD service box, older that.........no, even older.....no, you're still off, it's OLD........and putting a new breaker is not that easy. House has been redone 4 times, and there are 4 separate breaker boxes......only one of which resembles any breaker box you ever saw. I may take pictures next time. I ain't touching them. However, the electrician that gave that estimate said the existing breakers are ok.......

I need the whole place rewired. I ain't got $5K............so I just make do. This is not worth spending ALL of my retirement money on.......heck, that's saved for kids. Cheaper to get a plug in cooker, and a toaster oven, and some 2/3 prong adapters!!!

[Captain]

Just take a pair of pliers and pull the third prong off the plugin of the thing you what to plug up.
I've done it a thousand times. Easy as falling off a log

Your welcome.

[Niner]

No, I'm NOT an electrician. But I can replace an outlet.

OK...I'm gonna tread lightly here......but here goes.

I remember a while back we were cussing and discussing an extension cord that I think you'd gotten from down at your Farm. You fixed it by removing and re-attaching the wires to the connectors.

Anywhoo... IIRC it was a pretty heavy (gage wise) cord that was fairly long, and three conductors (2 + Ground). You could use some Redneck Engineering, and run that extension cable from one of the grounded outlets in the "new section" over to the kitchen area. Then plug one of your Power-Strips into that. Since you'd not be using it all that much (just when you're down there messin' around). IF that extension cord ain't long enough, you could run down to the HD or Lowes or Ace or whatever and pickup whatever extension cord they have. Just be sure to get one tha's about 10 gage or so.

Well.....that's something to at least think about.


I could suggest that if you are gonna change out an outlet box to with a new one.... that you run a wire from the ground terminal to a water pipe (assuming that the house has copper pipes)......but that's getting a little electricianish.

The problem with messing around with electrical stuff when ya don't know what your doin' is fire and/or electrocution...neither of which you reallllllllly want.

[Buckrub]

I know. But............these are devices that I carry back and forth from farm to home, and vice versa. Elec skillet, etc. I hate to mess them up.

But that would accomplish same thing, yes.

[Captain]

I know. But............these are devices that I carry back and forth from farm to home, and vice versa. Elec skillet, etc. I hate to mess them up. But that would accomplish same thing, yes.

Yes. And you can always wire a three prong plug BACK into the appliance if and when you no longer use it down there.
It's as easy as pie.

[Buckrub]

I could. And it's not hard. But man........if I go down there 6 times a year..............um..........gotta be a better way, no?

[Niner]

Oooooooo.........here's another thing to think about.

How about setting up one of them good old Coleman Camp Stoves down there???
Set 'er up right on top of that old stove. I've done that lots of times when we've had a long-term power outage.

Hell's Bells....that's a dadgummed $1000 idea right there!!!!

[Captain]

Bucky the appliance will work in BOTH places with just two prongs. It if don't shock the shit out of you at the farm (ungrounded) it for sure won't shock you if and when you use it other places like home with more modern wire....

[Buckrub]

Oooooooo.........here's another thing to think about.

How about setting up one of them good old Coleman Camp Stoves down there???
Set 'er up right on top of that old stove. I've done that lots of times when we've had a long-term power outage.

Hell's Bells....that's a dadgummed $1000 idea right there!!!!

Niner, I have not mentioned it but on a shelf in the garage is a brand new, in a case, Coleman Lantern! And 3 cans of coleman fuel.

And I asked about using a Coleman stove before I went, and was told by the GH Guru's not to use any gas appliances inside, including coleman stoves.

Cappy, that's a good point. I'll think on that. But.......still not sure I'd not just rather use a $1.50 2/3 prong adapter down there and sorta do the same thing..........I THINK.........

[Captain]

The adapter will work and do the same thing, but spend a few bucks. Don't go to wallyworld and buy the cheapest thing they got. Go to a electrical supply store and spend a few dollars and get one that will not heat up. The wiring is old down there and you don't need to heat up those wires.

[Buckrub]

Assume you mean heat up. OK, good point.

[Thumper]

Do you not remember when I had an electrician come out because the stove and oven (on same circuit) just quit? He said the wiring under the house had dry rotted!!

Nope, don't remember that. And if my memory were as short as your Johnson, I'd have NO memory at all! ;)

Dry rotted. That would be insulation. Buy a few rolls of electrical tape and climb under the house! ;)

Oh, and if you have circuit breakers, it ain't old, old, old, old. old! It couldn't be any more than old, old, old ... or you'd have fuses. You're welcome. :D

[Buckrub]

You're right.

It's just old, old, old.

Can't crawl under house. The electrician tried that. There is now a big BEAM holding up the floor.......that my MIL had installed about 10 years ago.......else the kitchen floor would have fallen in (it sags pretty good now), and that the wiring has to go through that beam. And there is no way I can get under the house......you have to be about 125 lbs to get under there........both Electrician and Plumber have said same thing.

[Thumper]

I'm with the others ... pull new wire through. Piece of cake and MUCHO cheaper. I wouldn't worry about it being up to code ... doesn't sound like it'll be hitting the market anytime soon.

[Niner]

They make a thingy that replaces the gas tank on the old gasoline models so that they burn propane which is safe to run indoors....

http://t.basspro.com/Stansport-Propane-Converter/product/10218813/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[Thumper]

Please don't suggest Bucky start working on gas fittings! ;)

[Niner]

Not "gas" per se. This doo-hickey converts an old-school gasoline-powered Coleman Stove to where it can use those little 1# propane tanks like the lanterns use.....

4420

[Niner]

Anyways....I figgered if he has one of those old-school Coleman Stoves (doesn't everyone), this would $ave him $omewhere around $1000 and/or the ha$$le of running a bunch of 8 gage wire$ under or over the hou$e for the $tove.

[Thumper]

All this begs a question I've never thought about before. I've always just used the common sense approach to using stuff like that in the house. I've just never really thought about it as I've never had a need. I always figured it was a no-no due to CO2, but heck, people use gas stoves in their house which would be CNG, Propane or Natural Gas (pipeline). I would assume they're vented in some way, but thinking about it, a stove couldn't be vented. Right? I've always had electric except overseas we cooked on charcoal, but the kitchen was outside. I did cheat and bought a 2-burner propane "stove" as I had no hot water and it was nice to take a hot "shower" from time to time, or shave with hot water ... not to mention not having to start charcoal just to warm up a bowl of soup. Odd to think I did that for 3+ years and never really thought much about it ... you don't miss "luxuries" as much when nobody else in the village has them either. But I digress ... why is it ok to have a "gas" stove in the house, but not something like Coleman fuel? Does it put out more CO2 than the others??? I SHOULD know this, but I've never really thought about it before (never needed to) ... what's the diff?