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View Full Version : Sorry, but this will prolly be a "what'chu think?" Thump post.



Thumper
05-17-2015, 09:49 AM
Not sure how to punctuate that title. ;)

I was buried with work yesterday as I've officially opened an eBay Store and have been extremely busy. That's a step up from just some amateur dufe in his underwear selling on eBay, I'm now a simi-professional dufe in his underwear selling on eBay! :D

But, that has nothing to do with this post ... I just wanted to explain I've been basically living under a rock recently and haven't heard or read any news in the past 36 hours or so. Heck, I even missed the All-Star race yesterday! I woke up early this morning and decided to catch up a bit before getting back to work and was floored by the news about "Delta Force" and their mission this weekend. What floored me? The fact we are reading all about it in the frigging newspapers and having it splashed all over the tv screens. Maybe I'm old ... or just old-school maybe ... but "back in the day" (and even still actually) ... these missions were secret ... and STAYED that way. Who releases this stuff? And why?

Ok, I'm a dinosaur, but back in my "olden days", this stuff just wasn't made public. I used to be all about gov't transparency, but after entering the intelligence community, my mind was changed almost immediately. I was personally involved in one "breach" in the 70's when some butthead with the N.Y. Times published a story compromising our units identity and mission. It put us in immediate danger and a BUNCH of lives were at risk. "SOMEBODY" obviously talked to this frigging bozo and he made a name for himself by publishing a story.

You all know I'm very close friends with an old SEAL buddy and we've spent many, many ... MANY hours together, even worked some of the same missions back in the day and still stay in touch almost daily as well as done a ton of traveling the world together. To this day, it's like pulling teeth to get him to talk about the old missions. He's a fascinating guy ... led a fascinating life as a SEAL and one day I made the mistake of telling him so, then mentioning he should write a book. BAM! His blood pressure went through the roof and his only response was (as the veins popped out on his neck), "Yeah, like every other fucking SEAL in the world these days??!!" The "old school" SEALs just simply DO NOT TALK about their missions. Today, it seems like books and movies are released shortly after any major operation. I suppose American Sniper was the latest.

That brings me to the so-called Delta Force (BTW, as far as I know, they don't call themselves that). I have a buddy who became an operator (as they are called) and to this day, I couldn't tell you if he's still in ... or out! I'm SURE he's out (due to his age) ... but I honestly don't know. We were in Intel together and as of 6 months from now, we'll have known each other for 45 years. We talk a minimum of once a week IF he's in the country (still travels a LOT) and just happens to be in California right now, but will only be there a couple of months, then he'll be gone again. We met up at the U.S. Embassy in Thailand about 10 years ago ... he flew in from Taiwan to hook up with us, we partied for 3 days and he was "gone again". We met up again (out of state) about 6-8 months ago and had a great time for about 5 days, then he was off again. The last I saw him was at the airport, he was headed west and I was headed east. I'm not really sure what he does. I have to assume he's a civilian ... surely he is as he's in his early 60's ... but I'm not positive. One note, since he entered SOD, I never again saw him in uniform. He's had long hair, short hair, beards, moustaches, been clean shaven ... he's just always looked like Joe Blow off the streets. I remember kind of joking with him at the Embassy and asked how I'd know one of his cohorts if I ever saw one. He looked me straight in the eye and told me for all I know, I'm the only non-operator in the room ... and he was as serious as a heart attack! I've heard that some who went for Delta training were washed out because they were "too military". That would be hard to prove, because from what I understand, when you wash out, they don't even tell you why.

I remember when we worked Intel together, he was Special Forces (Green Beret) ... remember, this was the 'Nam days, and he was a TOUGH little sob back then. The funny part is, you'd never know it in a bazillion years if you didn't REALLY know him. We were together "up north" and later went "down south" together, worked together and partied together. We even lived in bungalos next to each other in the village. We got out after the war in '75, but in a matter of months, he re-enlisted, went back into Special Forces and became a Ranger. A couple years later, he told me he was entering a "special program" that was just getting started and would "fall off the face of the earth for a while". This "special program" turned out to be the formation of 1st Spec-Ops Detachment. They were the "Delta Unit" and somewhere along the line (Hollywood maybe?) ... they were called "Delta Force" ... but to this day, I really don't think they call themselves that. That's about all I remember. After that, he became a "ghost". We had a long talk one day and this new unit had pretty much caused his divorce (he was never home and never talked about where he'd been or what he'd been doing). I knew his wife well, was there when they met, was there when they married and was there when they had a son and adopted a daughter (from his wife's previous marriage). He's been to my house, I've been to his house, I knew his parents ... I'm just saying, we're very close friends ... always have been, always will be ... but I know NOTHING of his military ops. (other than from working together during our old Intel days).

"Delta Force" members just do NOT talk. I really don't know who releases this stuff or why ... but I do know it really pisses off the REAL Spec. Ops. Delta guys as well as the REAL (read - old school) SEALs. These guys are the toughest sob's on the planet and they live by a code of silence. I guess many of us are becoming dinosaurs and it's a different world now ... but I still have all the respect in the world for the "old school" guys and their discipline. I've always wondered who's really the toughest ... SEALs or SFOD-D ... being ex-Army I might actually lean toward Delta ... you just don't hear about them as much ... kinda like it USED to be with the SEALs. What really sucks is, about the only thing the average person knows about "Delta Force" is the failed mission in Tehran and the movie Blackhawk Down ... or some of the stupid Chuck Norris movies. The truth is, they run hundreds ... no, probably thousands of missions you and I never hear about. Who picks and chooses which ones to make public?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the heck out of hearing/reading the details of these operators' missions ... it gets my heart racing ... but sometimes I have to wonder which politicians have their heads up their collective asses when it comes to releasing details of these operations and what unit it was that pulled them off. That said ... I'll be reading all I can get my hands on and living vicariously for the next few days. Does that make me a hypocrite?

Chicken Dinner
05-17-2015, 10:29 AM
The cynic inside me says it's nothing more than a modern day version of the Roman "bread and circus". The more rational part of me would say that when our enemies are making such effective use of the Internet and TV by showing grisly videos of beheadings, etc., we have to respond in some way. After all, we lost Vietnam in the court of public opinion and not on the battle field. I would also add that you're spot on when you say we need to be skeptical about what we read from our government. Just because we read about this operation in the paper doesn't mean it's true or that we heard he whole story.

Buckrub
05-17-2015, 10:37 AM
I stopped reading it all.

BarryBobPosthole
05-17-2015, 10:58 AM
I'm with you, Jim. I turned on CNN and Fox to find out about the story this morning and got so pissed off I had to turn it over to some program about dogs. Both news networks had their 'experts' talking about every moronic detail or thought that crossed their brains. One questioned the rationale used since the operation carried a lot of risk. One used it to further his thought that we need to be sending soldiers to Iraq. One said our whole foreign policy is effed up and ISIS is going to kill us all (well, that's the essence of what he said). None of it was based on facts. It was just blather and speculation. One congressman, who is a former Seal officer, was so arrogant I wanted to piss on the TV. After I thanked him for his service of course, because we all know NO veteran could possibly be a dumb ass. News flash. I was in the military. 99% of officers are dumbasses.
I blame it on the 24 hour news cycle. Do this: next time you're watching the news and they are interviewing some dumbass expert, count how many times the reporter just says back what the person just said. And keep track of how much of it turns out to be accurate.

They're all dumbasses. Snd they make us dumbasses just by watching them. Stick with dog programs.

BKB

LJ3
05-17-2015, 11:37 AM
Information age, baby! (Dick Vitale voice) BBP is right, it's the 24 hour news cycle. We all know someone who just can't STFU... netiher can the jabbering heads bumpin their gums day and night.

Oh, and you're a curmudgeon. If an operation is conducted and reporting on it doesn't cause security risks, why not talk about it? I think the ignorant masses SHOULD know that it still goes on practically every day.

No-till Boss
05-17-2015, 01:16 PM
I have a really good friend that is a old Vietnam sniper. Still to this day, it's very rare he ever shares his experiences with me.

Thumper
05-17-2015, 04:14 PM
Oh, and you're a curmudgeon. If an operation is conducted and reporting on it doesn't cause security risks, why not talk about it? I think the ignorant masses SHOULD know that it still goes on practically every day.

Well, let's see ... these talking head "experts" go over HOW we gained the intelligence. WHO helped us. How our Delta teams are set up, where they launched from, the maximum/minimum equipment we designate for an operation, the path we flew, where/when we flew it and why. What intelligence we look for once we breach a compound, where we send it and what we do with it. It goes on and on. To make matters worse ... they (the world OR the enemy) doesn't need to know what SF team did the deed ... or whom they worked with to get the job done. I think the "enemy world" just sits back and laughs at our security breaches these days. But then, WTF ... if the team members or people "in the know" don't do it themselves ... some pimple on a rat's ass like Edward Snowden will come along and spill the beans. If he should get his ass in a bind, we'll simply trade 5-6 of the country's worst bad-asses for his worthless butt.

CD is correct to a point ... we hear only what the government wants us to hear ... well, that's how it USED to work anyway. That's the reason I quit reading newspapers years ago even though I was previously addicted to reading the morning paper. I knew the truth .... and I knew what I read in the papers was not quite the same thing. I'm not so sure now. I think much of the intel leakage is nothing but "look at me, look at me grand-standing" whether it be for political gain or book sales. IF it comes from within the team, it should be a court(s) martial offense IMHO.

What really gets me is all this "detailed" info was all over the news this weekend. The operation was Friday night as far as I know. From past experience, I seriously doubt the team has even been fully debriefed yet! Who puts this stuff out there anyway?

HideHunter
05-20-2015, 08:27 PM
I have a really good friend that is a old Vietnam sniper. Still to this day, it's very rare he ever shares his experiences with me.

Me too.