New Day New Topic Same Root Problem

[BarryBobPosthole]

http://newsok.com/whats-next-for-californias-contentious-vaccine-law/article/feed/857774

The age old issue of how much is too much and is any at all needed when it comes to laws. This one hits close to home as I have a daughter in law who has refused to vaccinate our youngest grandson. She's a smart woman, she is an excellent Mom and she has very strong feelings about this. Unfortunately, in the discussions I've listened to (but not been a part of thanks to some well placed heels on my toes from my wife) the science she quotes has been debunked and there actually is some very settled science on the subject.

But the current trend is, thanks to some quack doctors and celebrity endorsement on the internets, that parents are refusing to get their children vaccinated in greater and greater numbers. The prevailing attitude in my state is that people should be free to make their own medical decisions and vaccination should be an individual choice. That is fine until those decisions have a potential affect on others around them. Like second hand smoke very much if you'll think about it.

Personally, I am with Mississippi and California in their laws about it. But its not all that cut and dry.

And by the way, I'd rather see our country up in arms about stuff like this than abotu friggin flags.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I guess it's gonna take a lot of kids unfortunately dying from diseases that no one needs to even get, if they were vaccinated, to make some people realize that the risks are far outweighed by the benefits of vaccinations.

There is a large Amish community in my area, and there have been a few outbreaks of measles over the past few years, and most of them have been tracked back to the Amish due to them not being vaccinated.

I doubt this will make a huge difference though, because a lot of the non-vaccine people are also home-schoolers as well, so I don't know if the kids aren't going to school, if they will be counted.

This is one of the areas where I think the government has a duty to protect the overall public and they can trump some of the people's personal beliefs, definitely more so than forcing someone to go against their religious beliefs, because very few of the people not vaccinating their kids are doing it on religious grounds. If that is truly the reason, like with the Amish, then let them opt out, it would be a small enough group to not effect the overall population.

[Thumper]

I'm with you on this one P-hole ... in this day and age it's just plain "ignernt" IMHO. 'Course, I'd have to put my mom in a straight-jacket and drag her kicking and screaming into a doctor just to get a flu shot. Her reasoning is, she's 83 years old and hasn't had the flu yet, so she's not worried about it. My comeback was, she has insurance on her house, but it hasn't burned down yet, and insurance on her car, but she hasn't had a wreck ... but it did no good.

As far as immunizations go, what happens in the future if any of her kids want to join the military or simply travel the world? Everytime I travel to a country I've never been to before, I go into the VA and let them know where I'm going. They have a list of required (or recommended) immunizations and if I haven't had them, I get them (or a booster if necessary).

Oh, BTW ... just FYI, all immunizations are free at the VA if you need any. I get a flu shot every year and there is zero wait. Just walk into the clinic, they stick you and you walk out. If I'm at the hospital, they have desks set up in the halls of most every floor. I just flash my card, they stick me and I continue walking. I also got a shingles shot a couple years ago.

[Chicken Dinner]

I'd have a tough time keeping quiet on that one, Barry. I kinda sorta get the religious exemptions. But, if your only reason is based on faux science, no way. Your decision is putting other people at risk.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not sure what to do. My wife is convinced that if I argue too much with her about it, she'll dig her heels in even more.

A kid just recently died in Europe. Of diptheria. And now the parents claim the anitvaxxers gave them bad info. This is personal responsibility of the highest order.

But people distrust the government. And Bucky's model would do away with the CDC which is where the bulk of this science comes from. This same government who just decided, by the way, to remove 'country of origin'from meat we buy in the grocery. Think about that one for a minute. Like horse or dog?

So yeah, its the same government.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Can I be nosy and ask why, specifically, she doesn't want to?

I agree with all that's said. Well put responses, all.

Well, except saying the CDC is where the bulk of the science comes from. That's pretty funny. And I don't know if I'd do away with it, probably would. But a major change would help it a lot, and then it could continue more effectively.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Her best friend has a teenage daughter who she took to get the HPV vaccine and she supposedly had an adverse reaction to it. Mind you, she went to several doctors who could or would not confirm this diagnosis. The girl was in a wheelchair for over a year, missed a year of school, and is just now thankfully recovering. A chiropractor, who both my daughter in law and her friend both say is as good as any doctor, is the one who suggested it could be the
HPV vaccine. It has been discovered now almost two years later, that she had a tick borne blood disease. Which probably could have been eventually diagnosed if her mother hadn't been shopping doctors to fit her diagnosis. Personally, I believe that she was after some pee pee money from Walmart (okay, a King of the Hill reference was in order here).
So that event kicked off a whole investigation on the internet and thus that's where the antivaxxer stance came from. She asks questions like, why does the vaccine have aluminum in it? Aluminum is known to be highly poisonous. Like there a giant aluminum conspriacy out there. And the question of our age is 'why so much autism?' The antivaxxers point to the rise of vaccines and the parallel rise of the incidence of autism. There is also revisionist history going on to the point that Jonas Salk is thought to haven't actually been a fraud who used fraudulent datafor his polio vaccine.
Its endless. Its mindless, IMO. And it scares the fuck out of my where my grandson is concerned.

BKB

[Buckrub]

My mother still thinks Chiropractors are better than doctors, and doctors are useless. The fact that on a rare occasion, both those things are true, doesn't help me in trying to convince her otherwise. Fortunately, my issue is the generation UP, and not DOWN, as if I was in your shoes that would drive me insane. Watching the stupid decisions my kids make for my grandkids is enough of stress causer, but that one would push me over.

I love to watch my kids go through my door.

Both ways.

[Thumper]

What's wrong with horse and dog meat? ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Nothing if that's what you want to eat.

I guess its fine. I try to buy regional if I can though and this makes it harder.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Her best friend has a teenage daughter who she took to get the HPV vaccine and she supposedly had an adverse reaction to it. Mind you, she went to several doctors who could or would not confirm this diagnosis. The girl was in a wheelchair for over a year, missed a year of school, and is just now thankfully recovering. A chiropractor, who both my daughter in law and her friend both say is as good as any doctor, is the one who suggested it could be the
HPV vaccine. It has been discovered now almost two years later, that she had a tick borne blood disease. Which probably could have been eventually diagnosed if her mother hadn't been shopping doctors to fit her diagnosis. Personally, I believe that she was after some pee pee money from Walmart (okay, a King of the Hill reference was in order here).
So that event kicked off a whole investigation on the internet and thus that's where the antivaxxer stance came from. She asks questions like, why does the vaccine have aluminum in it? Aluminum is known to be highly poisonous. Like there a giant aluminum conspriacy out there. And the question of our age is 'why so much autism?' The antivaxxers point to the rise of vaccines and the parallel rise of the incidence of autism. There is also revisionist history going on to the point that Jonas Salk is thought to haven't actually been a fraud who used fraudulent datafor his polio vaccine.
Its endless. Its mindless, IMO. And it scares the fuck out of my where my grandson is concerned.

BKB

See my post on what I learned yesterday at ROMEO club. It's getting nuts. The internet is a great thing, but it's caused the beliefs of idiots to be shouted a lot louder and more widely. That in turn makes loud backlashes more prevalent. Those things lead to a huge divide, or at least exacerbate the divide.

See now why "The Church of The Living Light and Apostolic Temple" has followers, makes a ton of money, and is actually believed to be viable to many? And yes, I made that name up.

[Thumper]

See now why "The Church of The Living Light and Apostolic Temple" has followers, makes a ton of money, and is actually believed to be viable to many? And yes, I made that name up.

Dangit! I was gonna contact them for a brochure! ;)

[Buckrub]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/jim-carrey-goes-on-anti-vaccination-twitter-rant-calls-california-governor-fascist/ar-AAcpKfL

Your hero!!

[Thumper]

Dang! I can't stand Jim Carrey! I get so sick and tired of those stupid faces he makes I want to barf. His silly/goofy humor just never has been my thing.

[DeputyDog]

I truly believe that the increase in Autism is due to more recognition and the expansion of the "autism spectrum". Kids that used to be "just a little weird" or "a little slow", and now being diagnosed as autistic. I'd like to think that the science of vaccines has improved over the past 60 years or so and the increase in autism is relatively new compared to the used of vaccines, so if the vaccines were causing it, why didn't the problems show up earlier?

Both of my kids have heart murmurs that were detected while they were infants. Their pediatrician referred them to a pediatric cardiologist who did EKG's and ultrasounds on them. It was determined that they were both minor and termed "functional", meaning that there was not a deformity, just a valve closure issue. I asked the cardio about it, and she said that with the upgrade of technology, more and more are getting diagnosed, where in the past, they would not have noticed the issue at all.

[No-till Boss]

My mother still thinks Chiropractors are better than doctors, and doctors are useless. The fact that on a rare occasion, both those things are true, doesn't help me in trying to convince her otherwise. Fortunately, my issue is the generation UP, and not DOWN, as if I was in your shoes that would drive me insane. Watching the stupid decisions my kids make for my grandkids is enough of stress causer, but that one would push me over.

I love to watch my kids go through my door.

Both ways.

I'm having a problem with my dad right now. He won't take any advise from a doctor, or their medicine, however, if he reads anything in the back of junk publication, he orders it immediately and starts taking it. Crazy ass shit, and he used to be a very smart man.

[Buckrub]

Tell me.

My mother drives herself to Little Rock to have rooster comb extract injected into her knee.

[DeputyDog]

Is it working?

[Buckrub]

She can barely walk.

[Chicken Dinner]

Imagine how bad off she'd be without it.:D

[Buckrub]

Optimists' Lives Don't Matter.

[BarryBobPosthole]

And here all this time I thought rooster juice was something else entirely.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

How about homosexual optimists?

[BarryBobPosthole]

We used to have a gay dentist.

He wasn't much of an optimist though as I recall. Kind of a butthole actually.

Honest.

BKB

[Nandy]

Barry, you are in a tough position, I don't envy you. If any I would push it with your son.
Although I am pro vaccine (even if they were to prove it caused my son autism)I disagree with the position of the gov. Now, someone explain this to me, if I dont vaccine my kid against lets say chicken pox and he get it while we are in a trip at the end of the world wouldn't the only other kids that get it are the ones that has not been vaccinated against chicken pox? If so then the only people at risk are those that has not been vaccinated. They need to make their decision. Yeah, I understand, if this is a trend maybe 100 years for now half the population could not be vaccinated but that is their choice...

[Buckrub]

Barry, you are in a tough position, I don't envy you. If any I would push it with your son.
Although I am pro vaccine (even if they were to prove it caused my son autism)I disagree with the position of the gov. Now, someone explain this to me, if I dont vaccine my kid against lets say chicken pox and he get it while we are in a trip at the end of the world wouldn't the only other kids that get it are the ones that has not been vaccinated against chicken pox? If so then the only people at risk are those that has not been vaccinated. They need to make their decision. Yeah, I understand, if this is a trend maybe 100 years for now half the population could not be vaccinated but that is their choice...

No. It's not the KIDS' choice.

[Chicken Dinner]

Barry, you are in a tough position, I don't envy you. If any I would push it with your son. Although I am pro vaccine (even if they were to prove it caused my son autism)I disagree with the position of the gov. Now, someone explain this to me, if I dont vaccine my kid against lets say chicken pox and he get it while we are in a trip at the end of the world wouldn't the only other kids that get it are the ones that has not been vaccinated against chicken pox? If so then the only people at risk are those that has not been vaccinated. They need to make their decision. Yeah, I understand, if this is a trend maybe 100 years for now half the population could not be vaccinated but that is their choice...

The answer is that it puts infants and others that, due to stuff like compromised immune systems or allergies, may have a medical reason for not getting the vaccine.

[Nandy]

You guys bring good points, I wonder if those few should truncate the rights or desires of the other 318 millions....

[No-till Boss]

I saw this and thought of this thread
5071

[Arty]

Imagine how bad off she'd be without it.:D
I just saw this.
That's funny!

[Chicken Dinner]

I just saw this. That's funny! I'm glad somebody around here gets my sense of humor...

[LJ3]

Barry, you are in a tough position, I don't envy you. If any I would push it with your son.
Although I am pro vaccine (even if they were to prove it caused my son autism)I disagree with the position of the gov. Now, someone explain this to me, if I dont vaccine my kid against lets say chicken pox and he get it while we are in a trip at the end of the world wouldn't the only other kids that get it are the ones that has not been vaccinated against chicken pox? If so then the only people at risk are those that has not been vaccinated. They need to make their decision. Yeah, I understand, if this is a trend maybe 100 years for now half the population could not be vaccinated but that is their choice...

If this is the DIL I think it is (that I've met) good fucking luck! Sorry Buddy!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yep it is.
BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Jimmy Kimmel has a pretty good take on this. I especially like the comment about the folks in LA being more scared of gluten than then they are of small pox.

http://youtu.be/QgpfNScEd3M

[Nandy]

Loved it!!!!