Who Died?

[Buckrub]

5 days of no TV, no radio, not even at wife's family lake house. On way home, all flags were at half mast.

Who died?

[BarryBobPosthole]

For the soldiers who were killed at Chattanooga.

BKB

[Buckrub]

6 views and no one knows who died????

????

Heck, NTB didn't even come see me.

P.S.
It's hard to argue with you guys typing with my thumbs last few days. And I have some new rules for arguin' with me, I'll let ya know 'em later. :)

[Buckrub]

I was typing too fast.

What soldiers in Chattanooga?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Five killed in tennessee.

BKB

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/20/us/tennessee-naval-reserve-shooting/index.html

[Chicken Dinner]

I was wondering the same thing and I wasn't even out of town.

[Buckrub]

Oh my!

Wow.

3 names, one is Mohammed.

My gosh. This is...........um..................

never mind, wrong venue.

[Chicken Dinner]

I really want to learn more about whether this guy was a lone wolf or not. Then, I may have a whole lot more to say.

[Big Muddy]

Yes, and it was declared a terrorist attack....it's ok, however, because the killer suffered from depression....that makes it ok, in the bleeding-heart's opinion.
Thanks to some sharp-shooting cops, at least he won't be sitting in an air-conditioned jail cell, eating three hot meals a day, with a flat screen tv, and a nice soft bed, at taxpayer's expense of approx. $38,000 per year....and, no trial expense, either.
I figure they've got a total of $12.95 in ammo, invested in the little dead bastard.

[Buckrub]

I really want to learn more about whether this guy was a lone wolf or not. Then, I may have a whole lot more to say.

I have honestly tried to understand that, but so help me, I can't understand what difference that makes.

[Big Muddy]

This pretty much sums it up:


http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/17/us/tennessee-naval-reserve-shooting/index.html
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ap/general/family-spokesman-depression-may-have-led-to-tenn-k/nm3Tc/

[Buckrub]

Authorities are working to figure out why Abdulazeez -- an accomplished student, well-liked peer, mixed martial arts fighter and devout Muslim -- went on the killing spree.

[Big Muddy]

Pshycotic, drug-addicted, alcoholic muslim....of course, it coulda just as easily been a baptist white guy....I wish the same ends for ANYONE who caused such carnage!!!

[BarryBobPosthole]

Like always, everybody is trying make some sort of connection that provides a reason for someone to do this stuff. I'm not sure there is one. Then again, it looks pretty much like this guy did it in the name of his religious beliefs. At least thats what it looks like to me.

What is more bothersome, is the rush in six or seven states now to arm the national guard to protect soldiers at recruitment centers. I think this is a law enforcement responsibility and if these governors want to provide extra protection, then provide more LE people to provide it. Law enforcement is NOT the domain of the military and if we make it where it is, we're giving the government too much damn power. But these governors are all rushing to be the first republican hogs to the trough to show their willingness to fight terrorism. Leave that to the professionals is what
i say.
Go to a country some time where the military is walking around with automatic weapons in public and tell me if you feel safer.

BKB

[Buckrub]

You are correct that LE can never validly be the purview of the US Military. That slope is far more than simply slippery.

[DeputyDog]

So you don't think that the military recruiters and NG people should be armed? They aren't going out and hunting down the people in the streets, they are just being able to protect themselves if attacked.

So I guess that the general public shouldn't be allowed to carry either, since it's the cop's job to keep them safe.

By the way, it's just with side arms, they aren't going to be walking around with M4's and SAW's.

[Buckrub]

There's a big difference in allowing military personnel serving as recruiters to be armed vs. sending in additional military swat teams to protect them............

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yep, and that wouldn't have made much difference here. Deputy, there are very valid reasons for our military not to carry arms while they're in uniform on domestic duties. It goes back a long long way and is an important part in separating what the military's responsiblilities are and what domestic law enforcement does. Especially since they are federally directed forces.
Posse comitatus is what its called if you want to see some info behind it.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Well, yes............but......................

The Act only specifically applies to the Army and, as amended in 1956, the Air Force. While the Act does not explicitly mention the naval services, specifically the Navy and the Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. The Act does not apply to the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although the Coast Guard is an armed service, it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Exactly. And that better be for a damn good reason. Why is this not the responsibility of local law enforcement?

BKB

[Buckrub]

Agreed.

[No-till Boss]

6 views and no one knows who died????

????

Heck, NTB didn't even come see me. :)

Sorry, this weekend didn't go as planned ......

[Big Muddy]

Thank goodness, we have got a governor with balls:

July 20, 2015
JACKSON, MS – In an executive order, Gov. Phil Bryant has authorized Maj. Gen. Augustus L. Collins, Adjutant General of the Mississippi National Guard, “to arm certain full-time military personnel at military facilities.”

An official release says the executive order “includes certain National Guard recruiting centers.” The Executive Order was issued on July 20, 2015.

“As commander in chief of the Mississippi National Guard and as governor of the state of Mississippi, I take the safety and security of our military personnel very seriously. These men and women put their lives on the line to protect us, and they deserve the opportunity to defend themselves from violent attacks,” said Gov. Bryant.

The release says that the order “also directs the Mississippi National Guard to examine existing security policies and procedures at military facilities throughout Mississippi and identify any opportunities to enhance the security of those facilities.”

“Our thoughts and prayers continue to be with the families of our heroes lost in the terrible shootings in Tennessee. The security and safety of our Mississippi National Guard personnel is a top priority. We support Governor Bryant’s executive order to strengthen security for our Magnolia Guardsmen,” said Maj. Gen. Augustus L. Collins.

The order comes after last week’s deadly attack on two military recruiting facilities in Tennessee.

Lt. Gov. Tate Reeves said of the order:

“I thank Gov. Bryant for allowing our brave men and women who serve in the National Guard to defend themselves as they perform their duties. It is unfortunate our servicemen and women must take these precautions on American soil.”

[Thumper]

Yeppers ... our Governor was right there with you!

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/2feee69581913188b2cf299f4cee3495a99e38ea/r=537&c=0-0-534-712/http/cdn.tegna-tv.com/-mm-/e77b5e2a70e4673fe48bf6d4a295c488b0f21a9c/c=34-0-2165-2841/local/-/media/2015/07/18/GGM/MilitaryTimes/635728207297246108-AP-193582039182.jpg

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Governors in at least a half-dozen states ordered National Guardsmen to be armed in the wake of an attack on two military facilities in Tennessee, and Florida Gov. Rick Scott went a step further Saturday by immediately relocated recruiters to armories.

In an executive order, the Republican governor said he wants Guard recruiters to move from six storefront locations into armories until state officials can evaluate and make security improvements, including possibly installing bullet-proof glass or enhanced surveillance equipment.

Scott ordered the guardsmen to be armed, as did governors in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Indiana.

Security for the recruiting centers has come under scrutiny since the Tennessee shootings because some people believe they are too vulnerable. U.S. military officials have said security at recruiting and reserve centers will be reviewed, but the Army's top officer, Gen. Ray Odierno, said it's too early to say whether the facilities should have security guards or other increased protection.

Scott, however, said during an interview with CNN that recruiting centers could be targets and that's why he wants the National Guard moved until officials are "comfortable" that they will be safe.

"We've got to understand that you know we have people in our country that want to harm the military," Scott said. "They need to be safe and they need to be armed."

As governor, Scott oversees the Florida National Guard and can act without federal involvement. He ordered officers to make sure all full-time members of the guard are armed "in the interest of immediately securing Florida National Guardsmen who are being targeted by ISIS."


Our Governor has always been a heavy supporter of the military. I told him I not only voted for him, but even adopted his haircut! ;)

5161

[DeputyDog]

Indiana did it too.



Beginning Monday morning, members of the Indiana National Guard who have handgun permits will be allowed to carry their personal guns at all National Guard facilities around the state.

Gov. Mike Pence made the announcement at a press conference Sunday, saying the attack on a military installation in Tennessee that left four Marines and a Navy sailor dead makes the Indiana National Guard’s new policy necessary and appropriate.

“Those who serve in the Indiana Army and Air National Guard and their families make great sacrifices for the people of Indiana and they deserve nothing less than our best efforts to see to their safety and security,” he said.

Adjutant General Courtney Carr says the National Guard will work with the State Police to provide training to service members who don’t yet have permits to carry.

“Our training will include some safety training and rules on the use of force to be clear that this policy is about self-defense,” Carr says.

Carr says he’s not concerned about the potential influx of so many weapons onto National Guard installations because, as he puts it, “safety is paramount.”

A National Guard spokeswoman said on Saturday that National Guard members would refrain from carrying guns when they recruit on school campuses.

[Buckrub]

I guess I'm missing something, not sure what (probably my mind). BUT........getting 'permission' for the US Military to carry a weapon???

Uh....huh?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, except for military police, I think they're forbidden to carry weapons while in uniform. Now what the do in civilian clothes is entirely the same as for everyone else.

these steps these governors are taking are probably pretty good short term fixes, but its irresponsible not to provide some sort of enhanced security long term. Hopefully the Pentagon will come up with a plan and not leave this entirely to the states. I noticed in Florida, they moved the recuiting centers to Nat Guard armories, which is also a good idea temporarily.
BKB

[Buckrub]

I believe you. But I'm a bit taken aback. I guess I'm naive.

I just am having a great deal of trouble with the fact that the US Military needs protection, and that they are unarmed!! I......simply can't get that. If they are unarmed, who is it that the anti-gun folks would WANT to be armed?? Only LEO's??? Apparently they don't want that, because many are complaining that they are abusing their weapons. So........just who the heck gets to carry a gun if not me and not a LEO and not the Military (in their view)??? No one but radical nutbags??

I read an article this morning that said that some are advocating that the Military Recruiters show up "not in uniform" so as not to attract attention.

What have we become??? If a US Marine has to take off his uniform and take off his weapon, so as to not be afraid of the bogey man, where are we headed??

What's really going on?

[BarryBobPosthole]

What have we become, indeed. I don't think we need to arm military recruiters. They live and work among the communities they serve in. given that they are the representative arm of our military here at home, they may be a target, but I think remains really to be seen. Let's not jump off the damned cliff on this deal. Turning shopping malls into areas patrolled by guys with m16s is not my idea of America.

BkB

[Buckrub]

I'm with you on that.

But my idea of America is ALSO not having a US Marine scared to recruit kids because nutbags are after him and he isn't armed. Just saying words won't stop bullets aimed at him. If I can carry a danged gun in a mall, so can he. Why would anyone want a US Military person to walk around with a target on his back and no weapon?


Still can't process this correctly. Seems we are afraid to identify that folks want to kill our military and LEO's, and we'll sacrifice their lives just so we won't have to admit that out loud.

[jb]

They are trained in weapons use and qualified to shoot them. It goes to the saying " When seconds count and the MP's & Police are just minutes away"

[Buckrub]

I was a Supply Clerk.

But I have a big old trophy sitting in front of me right now, that I got for shooting a danged weapon!!!

No one in uniform gets to say they don't know how to shoot. There is a reason for that, I always thought.

[DeputyDog]

What have we become, indeed. I don't think we need to arm military recruiters. They live and work among the communities they serve in. given that they are the representative arm of our military here at home, they may be a target, but I think remains really to be seen. Let's not jump off the damned cliff on this deal. Turning shopping malls into areas patrolled by guys with m16s is not my idea of America.

BkB

I'm pretty sure that they are only allowed to carry sidearms and only while on the "military property" which would be the recruiting centers. As I said before, this in no way gives them the authority to go out and conduct armed patrols. You are just adding that in for dramatics.

Did you complain about the armed National Guardsmen in the airports with M-16's after 9/11?

You are spouting off the same stuff the anti-gunners use. "They don't need to be armed, it's the police's job to protect them, they don't need to have any way to protect themselves."

So I guess along that line of thinking, there are not any firearms in you house because the police will protect you when the bad guys come in, and no one ever needs to carry a weapon anywhere since the police will protect them.

[Buckrub]

I carry a concealed weapon because a cop is too heavy.

[DeputyDog]

The police live and work among the communities they serve too, and are getting ambushed in restaurants while eating lunch, sitting on the side of the road or in a parking lot doing paperwork on their computers, and by way of fake calls coming into 911. Not to mention the attacks on the police stations like just happened in Dallas.

There have also been several documented instances of police cars being tampered with at police stations or at officers homes, such as lug nuts being loosened, or brake lines cut.

I'd guess with the radicalization that is happening to youth all around the world and more than you think in this country, the military would be an even more preferred target than the police.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm pretty sure that they are only allowed to carry sidearms and only while on the "military property" which would be the recruiting centers. As I said before, this in no way gives them the authority to go out and conduct armed patrols. You are just adding that in for dramatics.

Did you complain about the armed National Guardsmen in the airports with M-16's after 9/11?

You are spouting off the same stuff the anti-gunners use. "They don't need to be armed, it's the police's job to protect them, they don't need to have any way to protect themselves."

So I guess along that line of thinking, there are not any firearms in you house because the police will protect you when the bad guys come in, and no one ever needs to carry a weapon anywhere since the police will protect them.

I never said any of that at al. If you think armed recruiters will solve this, as seems to be most conservatives response to everything, arm everybody, then more power to you. I never said anything about patrols either by military people, but they do have to be public to be effective. I suppose we could put Seal Snipers on rooftops at recruiter facitilities, or build vehicle traps. That make you feel safer?
All I'm saying is there are several solutions to security and arming recruiters ain't gonna solve shit. Just like arming teachers hasn't solved shit.

And the national guard at airports after 9/11 was a temporary solution. I had no issue with it.

I suppose you never heard of Kent State. Thats one outcome of using guardsmen to do the job of police.


BKB

[DeputyDog]

You are right it won't solve the problem, but it will more than likely keep some soldiers alive.

You did too say something about patrols, "Turning shopping malls into areas patrolled by guys with M-16's isn't my idea of America."

How many school shootings have occurred in schools where the teachers were armed? I don't remember hearing of any, so I guess it worked in those schools. They just moved onto an easier target.

There will always be wolves out there preying on the sheep. I prefer not to be one of the sheep.

I never said the guard should do the job of the police, and neither did any of the governors that ok'd the arming of the recruiters. If you take the time to read more than the headlines, I believe, at least in Indiana, it only applies on military property or facilities, which a recruiting station is one.

You refer to Kent State, do you have any other instances? Or is one in decades enough of a reason for you? So after the reserve officer in Tulsa shot the guy instead of using his Taser on him, are you yelling that all the cops in OK need to get rid of Tasers so that this will never happen again, or was that just an isolated incident?

[BarryBobPosthole]

We can disagree. That's allowed. Don't paint me as some anti gun person (you're welcome to come peruse my safe if you'd like) just because I am saying that I'd don't like the idea of a publically armed uniformed military here at home. That's giving them police powers that I personally believe should be kept separate from federally controlled forces. But don't use that to paint me as some sort of liberal anti.

And for the record arming everyone in response to the mass killings is a fix, but it fixes the symptom and not the problem. We haven't figured out how to do that yet, but simply arming folks is a fifty percent solution. If what they're saying about this guy in Chattanooga is true, his being batshit crazy might have as much to do with what he did as his religion. That's gonna be a real tough nut to crack. There's some real slippery slopes there.
BKB

[Buckrub]

We can disagree. That's allowed. Don't paint me as some anti gun person (you're welcome to come peruse my safe if you'd like) just because I am saying that I'd don't like the idea of a publically armed uniformed military here at home. That's giving them police powers that I personally believe should be kept separate from federally controlled forces. But don't use that to paint me as some sort of liberal anti.

And for the record arming everyone in response to the mass killings is a fix, but it fixes the symptom and not the problem. We haven't figured out how to do that yet, but simply arming folks is a fifty percent solution. If what they're saying about this guy in Chattanooga is true, his being batshit crazy might have as much to do with what he did as his religion. That's gonna be a real tough nut to crack. There's some real slippery slopes there.
BKB

Barry, that's exactly the reason it IS smart to arm everyone. It's because there are unseen radicals out there. And, because the 'root problem' is not going to EVER be fixed. Bad people live. That's a fact, and talking about a possible solution won't solve that one. Solving 50% of it is the best we can do!!! Yet you want to do zero percent!!! why???

It's the same reason you own casualty insurance. According to your logic, you'd be way better off without it.

My sidearm is insurance against a casualty.

Your denying it to an obvious target group is egregious and capricious and mean. All the while, I'm all for NOT turning into Israel (although they ARE safe, and free to boot). But these are not some random humanoids. This is the US Freaking Military we're talking about!