This is 5th similar story I've read on the internet

[Buckrub]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/fallout-from-wal-marts-pay-raise-unhappy-workers/ar-BBlrpW9

The "have nots" demand more..............and always get it, because they are always at the bottom, even when the bottom is raised. But the thought that all workers benefit when the bottom is raised is nuts. One story says that many are upset because it put them above the federal benefits threshold. Several others are like this, where all workers are upset other than the bottom. It's like folks want to yell "Geez, man, we TOLD you, didn't we?".......

Oh well. I'm getting zero percent raise, because, well you know, no prices have gone up in the last year........at all. Which is fine with me. I am clearly eating fine.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I've seen companies do across the board salary adjustments for employees many times and heard the same complaints. It doesn't mean people are ungrateful or that it was the wrong thing to do. It means people bitch no matter what you do.

And go figure. Economists have been waiting for a rise in wages to indicate that our economy is finally in full recovery mode and when it happens all you can do is bitch about it. My wife's company just did a big increase for workers. You want to know why? Because they were losing people to competitors. A big part of Walmart's reason was the same. I can tell you it wasn't out of the goodness of their little pea pickin hearts. It was done because it was a sound business decision. Almost all the box stores are increasing wages. Target probably started it. They were paying mich hogher wages here for part time workers before the other stores started doing it. And you know how everyone follows Owasso's lead!

They didn't do it to cave into to lazy worker's demands. They did it for selfish reasons. Any successful business operates in that manner.

Geeze, you are such a bitter guy.

BKb

[Buckrub]

Me??

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yes you! Bitter Bucky.

BKB

[HideHunter]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/22/seattle-sees-fallout-from-15-minimum-wage-as-other-cities-follow-suit/

I did no further research to "confirm" this.. just took it at pretty much face value.

[Buckrub]

Yes you! Bitter Bucky.

BKB

Huge assumption. Just reporting what I have seen.

Your divining skills probably work better from a closer range, I'd bet.

[LJ3]

I've seen him divine a bottle of vodka in .76 seconds.


Uhhhh, wait. Crap... that may have been me.

[BarryBobPosthole]

You republicans are all about that 'rising tides raise all boats' bullshit until somebody's actually does get a lift. Then its all about the lazy little have nots feeling entitled.

BKb

[Buckrub]

No, that's not valid.

It's about the lazy little have nots whining because the only way they will allow themselves to go higher is for someone to increase their worth without them doing anything extra. They just want free stuff. And when they get it, they want more. There's no end.

If those lazy little have nots don't like it, go start your own company, and pay whatever you want.

[Buckrub]

And you ignore the info............layoffs are skyrocketing........workers that get raises are not happy.........workers that don't get raises are not happy.......hiring is way down......yet you cling to the hope that raises for the bottom will somehow magically help everyone. I don't see it. Just isn't reality. Just my thoughts.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Worker productivity in the US is at an all time high. GDP has grown tons faster than per capita income. So American workers have done something more. And now that we're approaching full employment wage pressue is going to happen. That's a good thing by the way.
Here's why your bitter tears get my goat. Instead of celebrating the American worker, who is one of the most productive in the workd and getting more productive by the year, you want to portray them as lazy fuckers who want more money for nothing. And you ought to know better. You know how hard people worked in business and watched as layoffs happened and offshoring and you know how many stuck it out in bad conditions and kept at it.
Our workforce is our best resource in America, period end of discussion.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

And you ignore the info............layoffs are skyrocketing........workers that get raises are not happy.........workers that don't get raises are not happy.......hiring is way down......yet you cling to the hope that raises for the bottom will somehow magically help everyone. I don't see it. Just isn't reality. Just my thoughts.

You make a lot of stuff up.

BKB

[Buckrub]

And you're dismissive of stuff you don't agree with me on.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm dismissive. You're still bitter.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Nah.

[BarryBobPosthole]

And I hate to cloud this discussion with facts, but here's a comparison (created by those conservative minds at Heritage Foundation) of what real hourly wages have done compared to productivity.

does this appear to you like workers are getting something for nothing?

BKB

5324

[Buckrub]

Look. I was a worker. I liked wages.

I just never, and I mean never, whined about my poor salary and how I was mistreated. I studied, I got more education, I got more experience, I figured out how to get ahead, and I did it. I worked with a ton of folks who were probably minimum wage employees, but who knew someone or through some magic method, got a job ahead of mine. FINE.........not my concern.

I had a high paying job, from which I got fired, for political reasons.......as you WELL know, because you were the first one I called! But I found another, much less pay, and was glad to get it.

I never worried about my boss making 3 times what I made, even though he/she knew very little, either. That's the system and I liked it that way, that gave me incentive to become the boss if I wanted. I did want, for a while..........but not at the end.

I felt like if I made less, I should work harder. I felt like if I got a big raise, I should work harder to prove I deserved it. I worked my literal butt off............no, in fact, I worked my heart out!! Very literally.

This is America. This is not Europe. The 'State' shouldn't be responsible for industry and jobs, or wages, or anything else. They need to stay out of it. Everyone is where they are because of choices.

That's just my opinion. It's a huge reason I dislike any idea a Liberal comes up with, pretty much. Individual responsibility, individual incentive, you make yourself. If you inherit it, fine. If you marry it, fine. But if not, then figure out how to make it or don't, but don't whine. Be content.

That's just me.

[HideHunter]

You republicans are all about that 'rising tides raise all boats' bullshit until somebody's actually does get a lift. Then its all about the lazy little have nots feeling entitled.

BKb

Actually, I'm almost 100% a "root hog or die" kind of guy.. and ftr.. while I am a registered Republican... I'm not all that freaking happy with them, either.

[Buckrub]

Republicans are far too Liberal for me to be one of them.

[HideHunter]

You have to forgive my "lack of compassion" as my Uncle in law calls it. I grew up in an abusive home... if you didn't work - you didn't eat.. and then "life" happened - and you know what?... it was the same freaking deal all over again

[Buckrub]

I've never said this outloud, and I don't really know why I am now.

But my father was thrown out of the house at age 14 by his parents (I hesitate to give them titles that make it seem I am kin to them), because he could not bring in enough money to give them to waste. He brought in some, but not enough.

Ultimately a man took him in, a pharmacist, and I bear his middle name. Sent him to business school, etc. But he literally had to work to eat, and at an age where school should be your only concern. And that's what I did. I lost two jobs, for political reasons, but I never took a dime of unemployment.

Even the Bible backs this up:

2 Thessalonians 3:10King James Version (KJV)

10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Republicans are far too Liberal for me to be one of them.

Hahahah, ain't that the truth!


Bucky, we are much alike in ways that might surprise you. I always had much the same attitude towards pay as you and rarely discussed pay with my peers. I always thought that when I took a job, I accepted the wage as fair and it would be unfair of me to bitch about it if I found out someone else got a better deal. but the company I worked for went through several aquisitions and as a result salary planning was incredibly hard, because every department I ever managed had employees who were hired by a different company, had an entirely different salary structure, and it resulted in two people doing the same job for vastly different wages. Its a manager's nightmare. Wages are at the bottom of Maslow's famous pyramid and if you ever want to truly motivate people with your dazzling managerial skills, its impossible to do unless they feel they're fairly compensated. So we'd do the best we could at review times and once in a while the dompany would try to do what they could to make things right. Once the dot com stuff hit though, annual increases pretty ,uch went to the 0-2% range and managers had no tools to try to fix what was badly broken, let alone try to reward top notch people. You ended up giving top people 3%, which I've had several tell me is more insulting than helpful, and the average Joes got nada. Its a bad sign when annual merit pisses people off more than it satisfies them. Meanwhile, during this time Michael Capellas, CEO at the time got a 17 million dollar bonus for successfully selling us to Verizon. Ivan Siedenberg, the Verizon CEO got an average of $14 million a year in bonuses. In the middle of massive layoffs and offshoring, the current Verizon CEO got $18 million last year. IN BONUS. Thats not base compensation. Thats what they got above and beyond. they made their bonus on our, the workers in the company's productivity. And that's fine. They managed the company, they should be compensated for doing more with less. But how do you justify workers getting nothing? And we worked harder to take up the slack for the layoffs they got their bonus for. No matter how you want to spin it, that's wrong. And its why the union guys actually even exist.
A rising tide raises nothing but a bunch of boat payments.

BKb

[Buckrub]

That's nothing. Our CEO got $28M a year to leave and go be president of Mizzou. Probably still is getting it. The guy before him got $18M a year for FAILING to sell us to Bernie!

Stop blaming them. Blame the Board.

It's stupid, but it's America (get all you can). Saying there's a huge disparity between Joe and Jane does NOTHING to help Joe OR Jane, it's just blather. So some bozo that knows nothing and does less gets a lot of money? So what? I had VP's, Directors, Managers, that couldn't tie their shoes. WAY more of them than one CEO. But that steps on toes to discuss, so I'll quit.

Life ain't fair. That's the message. Deal with it, make everything YOU can of YOURSELF, regardless of whether it's disproportionate that Joe makes a Billion Dollars. If you don't like it, go found your own company and pay yourself a Billion Dollars.

Sorry, that's just me. Stating disparity doesn't make me want to be a communist! :)

[BarryBobPosthole]

You always come to this. You're the one who said the bottom feeding trumpet monkeys didn't deserve their raises at walmart because they don't do anything to deserve it. I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander,

BKb

[Buckrub]

I guess that is losing me. I never called them monkeys, though. But your last post, I simply do not understand, sorry. I don't know who the goose and the gander is in your analogy.

????

[BarryBobPosthole]

Just to verify your opinion:

Its fine for CEOs to make more money, millions in more money, without doing anything more to earn it.

Its not fine for workers to make more money, even though their productivity has risen every single year. Because that'd be......something. Socialism I guess.

BKB

[Buckrub]

No, that's not what I said. Not in any way.

I SAID that while it's stupid for CEO's to make that much, it has nothing to do with YOUR salary or JOE'S salary, and you two need to either work for your salary or start your own company. I do agree that companies SHOULD be fair in paying salaries. They should. But whether they are or not, the workers need to work for the salary they gladly jumped on when offered the job.

My point was that every worker from CEO to Janitor makes what they make, and every other worker needs to just work or leave. To strike, or demand more pay, or throw a fit, is not right, not to me. It clearly is to many others.

[Buckrub]

And by the way, I did not give lower paid workers a disparaging name, you did that. You did it to try and imply that I believe that about them, that they are just 'worthless bottom feeders'. They are not. They are needed, and ARE productive, and that argument style doesn't sit well with me, to be honest.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Who threw a fit?

BKb

[Buckrub]

Many minimum salary workers recently.

[Chicken Dinner]

I agree with you to a point. But, aren't striking, demanding more pay and throwing a fit part of the process of getting more pay? We're talking about hourly wage workers here. Walmart can't afford to negotiate wages with every single one of them. So, as a group they need to agitate if they want more.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Ah. And you say they shouldn't have the right to do that?

BKB

[Buckrub]

I am not saying you don't have a RIGHT to do anything.

But you are saying the company doesn't have a RIGHT to fire them if they walk off or don't work.

Back to the sauce and gander deal.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I never said that at all. Where do you think I said anything of the kind? All I said is retailers all over the place are increasing wages. And they're doing to prevent unionization and to keep their best people from leaving to go elsewhere. My wife's company was losing people hand over fist until they did the same thing and raised slalries across the board.

In other words, they reacted to labor market pressure. Do you believe in a free market or not?

BKb

[Buckrub]

I am not trying to deflect, trust me.
But I'm somewhat lost here. Probably my fault.

Every company can raise wages if they want. That's their business. If done in reaction to market labor pressure, of course that makes sense. Retailers can increase wages, and that's fine.

My point is simply, and nothing more, that employers run the company, not employees, and if employees don't like their wages they can go elsewhere. Or start their own company. I've said all that about 6 times. Nowhere did I say that companies should not raise wages.

??

[Buckrub]

Wait..........

"Your wife's company"????

Are you telling me that you put Julie back to work after her riff, but you are 'retired' after yours?????

I have always admired your intelligence. But that is just golden, man. I bow before you.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Julie went back to work in 2010. She was only retired for two years and went back to work to pay off student loan debt ran up by one of my gifted friggin daughters. (That I somehow got co-signed for)
So yeah, i'm a 'kept' man. Its very nice.

But back to the topic, I'll cut and paste what you said that made me think you believed that the world was corrupt because these workers got a raise.


"It's about the lazy little have nots whining because the only way they will allow themselves to go higher is for someone to increase their worth without them doing anything extra. They just want free stuff. And when they get it, they want more. There's no end.

If those lazy little have nots don't like it, go start your own company, and pay whatever you want."

[Buckrub]

OK. No, that's not how I meant it. I was paraphasing YOUR description of them, not mine. But I meant only that if they deserve a raise, and if the company gives them one, that's great. They probably deserve it, some of them. BUT, they need to understand that is not the only way to get ahead, there's other things they can do........

And I was talking about all the ones I saw on the news and online that were carrying placards and jumping up and down and DEMANDING $15 an hour (even though in this state, that is worth about $22 an hour), and claiming that they deserved that much just because they are lower paid. THOSE are the ones I was talking about.

[BarryBobPosthole]

The ones here protested with their feet. Our overall employment numbers are down here because of energy sector jobs lost, but most everything else is going pretty well. We're seeing a lot of part timers go from two or three jobs to more permanent stuff too.

BKB

[Buckrub]

And where will these min wage workers work when this runs its course??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/us-companies-are-dying-faster-than-ever/ar-BBlsD2G

[Captain]

The ones here protested with their feet. Our overall employment numbers are down here because of energy sector jobs lost, but most everything else is going pretty well. We're seeing a lot of part timers go from two or three jobs to more permanent stuff too. BKB

WE are? Where? Who is we?
Figures you get from the Government????
I see...


5327

[Buckrub]

He does. Very much. It is the separation we have, by far.