Flake or possibility? (this "might" get long & turn into a Thump post) ...

[Thumper]

I watched Trump as he spoke in Iowa last night and I honestly don't know what to think of him. I think it's like political correctness with me, these days, we say what's polite or what we're expected to say ... but I believe deep down inside, many of us are afraid to say what we really feel. BUT ... I understand that. My whole adult life was spent managing a business, whether it be my own or somebody else's. There's an old saying, "The customer is always right". But are they really? I couldn't tell you how many times in business I had to bite my tongue. On the inside I was thinking, get out of my face you low-life mother-fucker ... but, "Yes sir/ma'am, you're right and I'll take care of it" would come out of my mouth. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a total push-over, I've told a few what I thought of them and actually thrown a few out of my place of business over the years, BUT ... afterwards, (except in the case of my OWN business) ... I'd make a beeline to the GM or Owner/President's office to explain the circumstances and my actions in case word got back to them (which it usually did). The big term these days is "Political Correctness" ... but I'm not so sure that term existed during most of my business life ... it was just something you did, without tacking a name onto it. General "business sense" maybe?

Well, I've always (since WAY before this Presidential thing) thought Trump was a blowhard ... and I still do in a way. BUT, on the otherhand, I respect his business sense. I have to admit, I've never hated a President in my lifetime as much as I hate Obama ... I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, but he promised "Hope & Change". Ha! There was "change" alright! But this really isn't about Obama. The point is, I DO want change ... we NEED change. Actually, EVERY Presidential candidate promises "change" ... it just rarely happens. Do I believe Trump would change things? Hell yes! But, I'm not positive what I think about his "bedside manner". That said, I have TOTAL respect for him as a businessman and he's a mover and a shaker ... he KNOWS how to get things done. For a brief period a few years back, I was a fan of Ross Perot ... but my infatuation with him went into the toilet pretty fast and I bailed. With Trump, I keep thinking, "No f'ing way", but deep down inside, I'm thinking, "way??".

In MY personal life, I started out in car delaerships by sweeping floors and doing anything I could just to earn a few bucks. ANYTIME a position opened up that I thought I could handle, I'd throw my name in the hat. From sweeping floors and taking out the trash, I moved "up" to parking cars (a Lot-Jockey). From there to picking up and delivering customer's cars. I went from there to Mechanic's Helper, then a Mechanic, then Shop Foreman, then a Service Advisor. Basically, by time I was in my late 20's, I'd done everything in the shop, short of management. I will admit, a management position was in my sites ... but I wanted to gain a bit more experience before attempting that leap. All this time, I seemed to have a natural ability to meld very well with GM factory reps, both locally and in Detroit ... and some very good relationships were formed. I was well on my way, but IMHO, was not even close to management material ... "yet". Then came the day the owner called me into his office. I entered to find him, the GM, the Service and Parts Director as well as the head of Cadillac Customer Service Relations from Detroit sitting in the office. I had no clue what was going on. Long story just a bit shorter, I was asked to accept the position of Service Manager. (this was at the only Caddie dealer in Hollywood ... a VERY large dealership) I was as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs!

Bottom line is, I lacked the personal confidence I needed and told them I honestly didn't feel I was ready. I had planned on staying at my present position a bit longer to learn from it and THEN move to the next level. I then said something about not knowing enough to solve all problems with the modern, computerized cars of those days and would not know how to be the head "go-to guy" for the whole department because there were things I knew nothing about. The GM Rep. laughed and said, "Jim ... I wouldn't know how to change a tail-light bulb, but I know WHERE to find out how to do it"! He went on to tell me I knew ALL the head people at the factory level and they all thought highly of me or I (the Rep) wouldn't be a part of this meeting.

This is where the most important words of my career were uttered ... and I've never forgotten them. I was told I don't need to know the answer to every problem that may arise, all I need to know is WHERE to FIND the answer. I was told I'm very good at that already as I have an excellent relationship with the GM factory personnel and they all think highly of me. I also know WHO to call for specific problems instead of bouncing around from department to department. Anyway, I was promoted and that started a long-standing and very close relationship with the GM brass. It continued to other dealerships and I eventually felt more like a consultant as they'd suggest I move to dealers along the way who were in "trouble" with the factory in the early days of CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index). At the last dealer it was "suggested" I move to, the CSI was in the toilet (37) and they were about to lose their franchise. I turned the place around and had the CSI at 98% when I left to start my own business. Isn't that basically what this country needs?

Now to my point. Trump talks about the "good people" he has working for him. He says some are nice, some aren't so nice, BUT ... they know how to get things done. I see he now devotes 100% of his time to the Presidential campaign, so he OBVIOUSLY has some good and trusted people running his "business empire" while he's out of pocket. People seem to think the President has all the answers. No, the President "should" have a staff of people he works closely with who will have the answers, depending on their expertise. In a successful business, you have a staff meeting, bounce ideas off the wall, listen closely to the people who excell in the areas in question, and come up with a decision. I think Trump knows and understands that, otherwise, his businesses wouldn't be as successful as they are. He never fails to mention the "good people" he has working in his organization and always mentions that "WITH THEM" he can turn this country around. I think of the cars back in the early days of computers and emission controls, etc. Without help from my "staff" in Detroit, I could not have fixed half of what "I" fixed. The trick to being a good manager is knowing when to ask for help AND knowing where to seek that help.

I used to picture Trump as a blowhard and imagined him as one who makes all the decisions and you can't tell him anything because he's a "know-it-all". I'm changing my opinion of him now as he never fails to mention the "good/smart people he has working for him". Now, the question I have is, if elected, will he surround himself with business people? Or politicians? Can business people take this country where it needs to go? Heck, "politicians" sure aren't doing a very good job of it! But I do feel there has to be a compromise because when "we" deal with other countries, we will be dealing with "politicians". It's like a Catch-22. But, I'm finding I can't help but listen to him. There are a lot of things I don't like about him, but there are a lot of things I DO like ... and apparently, I'm not alone in this country. On one hand, he scares me and I sense a trainwreck ... on the otherhand, I'm intrigued and "want" to believe in him.

[No-till Boss]

I think Trump has some serious shock value to his methods, but at the end of the day, he's probably the best man for the job we have ahead of us.

I kinds see me in Trump. I like to talk, I'm harsh, come off as arrogant, self centered and abrasive . But on the other hand, I'm probably the most self-motivated person you'll ever meet, I'm the guy you want on a project of any kind, I'm relentless on my pursuit of excellence, I'm OCD on everything being perfect, and I've never had to set a alarm in my fife. But most people don't wanna be around a person like this, until they need something done ! LOL

I think I'll vote for Trump if the opportunity arises !

[BarryBobPosthole]

I wrote this once before and Bucky claimed I was ridiculing him or Republicans or whatever. Imagine that. But its seriously true. When it comes down to what is being said, how its being said, and the reasoning behind it, Trump sounds almost identical to the great majority of conservative people that I know personally. So why wouldn't he be the front runner? But for some reason conservatives don't seem to like the mirror that Trump is, held up in their faces.

As for the political correctness thing, PC and people getting offended aren't the reasons we have gridlock in our country. The reason for gridlock is that we've put political ideology ahead of basic human values when we are selecting our governmental representatives. I won't even call them 'leaders'. 'Leader' is a bonus. In my mind, the way this is supposed to work, we're supposed to elect the people we think will make the decisions that we agree the most with and then allow them to go do the best job they can. That doesn't mean that they'll be right or that they'll even cast their vote the way we want them to every time. Nowadays though, every vote in the congress is a big ideological fight and every move by every player is monitored and discussed. No wonder we have a bunch of assholes in Washington. We created it. As Pogo famously said, we have met the enemy and they are us. It only when we elect people who aren't wingnut ideological freaks that we'll see what some smart people can do to solve what mostly are business process problems. Sorry, but Trump ain't one of 'em.

BKB

[Fido]

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by an illogical minority and mainstream media which believes it is possible to pick up a piece of shit from the clean end!!!!!!!!

[LJ3]

Business problems <----> Trump. I'm not convinced one way or ta'other.

[Thumper]

Well, I keep expecting him to tank ... but he just seems to gain momentum. BUT ... the elections are a long way off. I'll admit I'm interested in following his campaign to see how he "matures" over time. It may be a circus, but it's an interesting circus.

[LJ3]

If nothing else, he's frothing up the waters and making it so the Republican candidates can start sentences like "My colleague Mr. Trump may have angered many by saying ________ in such a blunt way but I'm here to tell you that ___________ is really important for our country and this is the much less incendiary way I would address it."

[FooBang]

That ain't the case LJ, they're picking up his lingo! "Anchor baby" is being tossed around by the ones who opposed before to the term, like Jeb Bush.

[LJ3]

True, but Trump is laying waste to the landscape while they take a much safer path in the wake he's leaving. I could be wrong. It's bound to happen eventually.

[No-till Boss]

It's a wonderJeb don't tune-up and cry everytime Trump belittle him. You can tell Jeb is scared to death ....

[LJ3]

Jeb doesn't know what to do with a loud moth bully like Trump. That's concerning for a world leader.

[Buckrub]

I have long advocated that the sole hope for this country is the Chaos Party. The old ways ain't cutting it.

"We need mainstream folks" is a pile of unmitigated horse dookey. No, we don't.

And what we need is a CONGRESS that is not afraid to act, and act in the interests of the American People, and not our allies, not our enemies, not our neighbors, not even our friends........but us. And when we get that down pat, we can move on to others.

Anyone that abolishes the greater part of the Federal Government is who I'm for. Anyone else is hot air.

[Buckrub]

But by the way..........IF Trump could pull a miracle and get elected, I doubt he could get much of his touted programs through Congress, or funded, since they are all weenie-wads.

Government right now just sucks. This is not "Politics". That's a smokescreen to keep from acting like you care about life. Government is the problem, at least the way we've evolved ours. It's broken.

[Chicken Dinner]

All I can say Barry is that you're hanging out with the wrong class of "conservatives" if that's true. Trump is nothing more than bullying misogynist. He may have tapped into some sort of populist working man's angst. But, he's no conservative. He's nothing more than an opportunist spooning pablum to the disaffected masses. As such, he'll end up on the scrap heap of history just like the rest of his ilk.

[Buckrub]

ha. You need to hang out with my Conservatives. They are Giddy over what this guy is saying, while disliking his ego.

Lots to say. But got to go for now. More tomorrow.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'll collect a few quotes from the conservatives here and we can compare them to Trump quotes and I'll show you what I mean.

bKB

[Chicken Dinner]

That will just prove my point.

[No-till Boss]

What difference does it make if Trump is not a true conservative ?

[Chicken Dinner]

He's a snake oil salesman selling people a bill of goods. Based on his prior statements, he believes barely anything he's now spewing. For example, he's previously on the record for being for nationalized health care and and against gun rights. (Those are just two quick examples.). The practical impact is that, if elected, he will accomplish nothing as he has neither the courage of his convictions nor the support of either side of the Congress. The bottom line is that any proposal will be DOA.

(I really don't care if he's "conservative" as I probably wouldn't meet most of the GOP's definition either. It bothers me that people are buying his bullshit. The same people who have spent the last 20 years labeling anyone that doesn't agree with them a RINO are now supporting the biggest RINO in the race. That bothers me.)

[No-till Boss]

He's a snake oil salesman selling people a bill of goods. Based on his prior statements, he believes barely anything he's now spewing. For example, he's previously on the record for being for nationalized health care and and against gun rights. (Those are just two quick examples.). The practical impact is that, if elected, he will accomplish nothing as he has neither the courage of his convictions nor the support of either side of the Congress. The bottom line is that any proposal will be DOA.

(I really don't care if he's "conservative" as I probably wouldn't meet most of the GOP's definition either. It bothers me that people are buying his bullshit. The same people who have spent the last 20 years labeling anyone that doesn't agree with them a RINO are now supporting the biggest RINO in the race. That bothers me.)

You just had two terms of Obama, is there any idea in your mind that it could be worse with Trump ???

[airbud7]

It's Trump or Hillary, Period....Take your pick...

I agree with Thumper, That's the same way I feel about Trump.

[Chicken Dinner]

Yes. He could set the GOP/conservative movement back 30 years.


You just had two terms of Obama, is there any idea in your mind that it could be worse with Trump ???

[airbud7]

Career politicians are all the same...Time for a businessman...

[airbud7]

Yes. He could set the GOP/conservative movement back 30 years.

Reagan years were the best years of my life...Not so Bad if you ask me...

[Chicken Dinner]

You'll get no argument from me in that point. Ronald Reagan was the greatest President of my life time. Donald Trump isn't even in the same discussion.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm curious what accomplishments y'all feel were made from eight years of the Reagan presidency. I have my own list but I'm curious what yours is.

bKB

[Buckrub]

My salary.

Removal of the wall.

[No-till Boss]

You'll get no argument from me in that point. Ronald Reagan was the greatest President of my life time. Donald Trump isn't even in the same discussion.

By damn I don't want go back to the 80's, I like to starved to death......fuck that !

[Buckrub]

The GOP needs set back 30 years.

[Buckrub]

By damn I don't want go back to the 80's, I like to starved to death......fuck that !

Sucks to be you.

I did great.

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm curious what accomplishments y'all feel were made from eight years of the Reagan presidency. I have my own list but I'm curious what yours is. bKB

He fundamentally changed what a great many people felt was the role of government.

[No-till Boss]

Sucks to be you.

I did great.

Is that when you married money ?

[BarryBobPosthole]

He fundamentally changed what a great many people felt was the role of government.

Do you mean as a philosophy or as a practice? not being snarky, but I'm curious how you think its changed during his time in office and since.

bKb

[airbud7]

By damn I don't want go back to the 80's, I like to starved to death......fuck that !

hahaha^... I was in my 20's and everything was Great!!!...Gas was cheap, weed was cheep and Pussy was easy to get...Where were you?

[No-till Boss]

Sucks to be you.

I did great.

Please share your early 80's great experience with me, I'd love to hear ?

[Buckrub]

He was trying to live without subsidies.

[Buckrub]

Please share your early 80's great experience with me, I'd love to hear ?

Jobs everywhere. Salary kept skyrocketing. Good times

[No-till Boss]

hahaha^... I was in my 20's and everything was Great!!!...Gas was cheap, weed was cheep and Pussy was easy to get...Where were you?

What were you bringing home about $165 a week ? LOL

[Buckrub]

And there were lots of ducks.

[Buckrub]

What were you bringing home about $165 a week ? LOL

Nonya.

[No-till Boss]

Jobs everywhere. Salary kept skyrocketing. Good times

Sounds like a hoot !

[airbud7]

What were you bringing home about $165 a week ? LOL

Wow...I remember in 1982 going to work for Daniel Const Co and making $6.25 an hour and thought I was rich...Lol...

[No-till Boss]

He was trying to live without subsidies.

I wasn't farming yet....

[No-till Boss]

Wow...I remember in 1982 going to work for Daniel Const Co and making $6.25 an hour and thought I was rich...Lol...

So I was about right for a single man. Plus the interest rate was 16-17% .

[airbud7]

The 80's were very good to most people...

[No-till Boss]

The 80's were very good to most people...

I guess if you didn't wanna buy anything maybe.

[airbud7]

So I was about right for a single man. Plus the interest rate was 16-17% .

I was 18 and had a new Trans Am and a wife...We lived good!!!...Nice house too...

[Buckrub]

I guess if you didn't wanna buy anything maybe.

New house every couple of years. New cars. Out to eat. Whatever.

[airbud7]

By 1985 I was working at Plant Vogtle and was a millwright journeyman...My pay went up quite a lot...I think it was around $13/15 an hour...And that could buy anyone a nice house and a new car...at the time!

Edit: In july of 1985 I made 16.45 an hour and I was damn proud...Now that money cant even support a young couple...Thats a Fact!

[No-till Boss]

National average mortgage rate history of the entire 1980's was over 10% for the whole damn decade . And Bucky you claim to be a math wiz !

[Chicken Dinner]

George F. Will hit is right on target, including his reference to George Wallace who I had in mind in my first post last night.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-havoc-that-donald-trump-wreaks--on-his-own-party/2015/08/26/7418c2c8-4b4c-11e5-84df-923b3ef1a64b_story.html

[Big Muddy]

5485

[DeputyDog]

I usually don't really follow all the candidates mainly because Indiana's primary is so late in the season, (May), that it's pretty much decided who the nominee will be by the time I get to vote. The vast majority of the candidates will have pulled out before our primary aren't even on the ballot here.

[LJ3]

Unless Trump can magically create and responsibly communicate policies to support his bravado, CD's prediction will come to be. I don't see him being able to sustain it much longer with the attacks on him becoming more focused.

But... I remain resolute that knowing how to control social media and all the modern methods of communication is what got Obama elected, twice.

[Buckrub]

If I have time today I will tell y'all what I think Trump is causing............if anyone cares.

But I don't think anyone has hit it right yet.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, here's what I think Reagan's legacy is. I've always thought he was the last president we had that was bigger than the office. And I think that philosophically, he molded the foundation for what moderate conservatives of both parties pretty much think of government today.

1. Derregulation - Reagan did a lot to deregulate business. Telecom deregulation as did the demonopolizing of the entire industry happened under his watch and was the biggest thing in American business since Teddy Roosevelt busted trusts when he was a Republican president. That had a HUGE personal impact on my career. I went to work for a little company with 700 employees in 1979 and within three years had tripled my started salary and had gotten three promotions. Of course, as NoTill pointed out, inflation was in the double digits so salaries were in large part tied to the inflation rate. I made a ton of money on my first house too from being in one of the hottest real estate markets in the country (Dallas) at the time and in double digit inflation.
2. Fed Policy - Folks don't remember this, but before the Reagan era, the stock markets didn't hold their breath each quarter wondering if the Fed was going to raise interest rates. Using the Fed as a control measure of inflation was part of the reagan monetary policy and its probably impacted our lives economically more than any single thing Reagan or any other president has done since. The rest of 'Reaganomics' or supply side economics has been pretty much proven to be not effective. But this part sure was.
3. Tear Down the Wall - Reagan's stance in the Cold War happened in a perfect storm with a lot of economic shit to bring the USSR down, but it also helped it along. You have to give Reagan credit for his SDI policies for zapping whatever will the Soviets had left.

Those are my top three. Only one, coincidently, would be part of the Republican platform today and that's number three. that's why I think he was bigger than the office. No republican would ever bust up an AT&T sized company these days. No Republican would ever create a governmental lever to shove the economy today.
But if you think about Reagan objectively, how much could he have accomplished without Tip O'neill, the speaker of the House. They were ideologically different as night and day, but they got budgets passed every year, they got tax cuts (and a record number of tax increases) passed that reagan wanted, and all in a Democratically controlled House. Sure there were battles, but they worked it out and got it done. There's no way the current set of dildos would get half that done. Because they're more concerned about ideology than they are about America, plain and simple. Reagan and O'neill wasn't the first example of a president and House Speaker working together from opposite sides of issues, but they are damn sure the last.
One last thing I think Reagan left us. The Fucking Bushes. That's when the bitterness and rancor started escalating in American politics and that's when both sides started openly using governmental processes to achieve political aims. And its when the Republicans started using fear as their number one political platform.

But that's a negative on what I was trying to paint as the positive contributions of Reagan.

BKB

[Buckrub]

A) I agree with a lot of that. That's a good post.

B) However, you KEEP creeping in that little smarky stuff that rankles certain folks......."The Bleeping Bushes". I like W. I always did. He was a good President and I will be happy to defend what he did in a separate post. But you have to come along and add this, for no reason......you forget that Clinton AND Obama, and everyone else, voted 100% to continue to fund what you wingnuts call "The Bush War", at every opportunity. Yet, they skate! Why? They funded it, not him! And I'll bet a billion dollars there WERE WMD's! Regardless, he didn't boink a White House Intern and slide, or lie every other word. Yet the guy that did is folks' hero. You said you HATED "W" and nothing he did woulds satisfy you. Yet, when others make that claim about Obama, you don't like it. That's why folks get upset over discussing things with you. One good post, and you throw that it at the end, and light the flames.

C) Sherman AntiTrust and Breaking up ATT, just because they were big and By Gosh We Can't Have That, has a few good points, but they weren't perfect.........Claiming that as a Great Thing is not what I'd agree with 100%. Look at ATT now! What a mess.

D) And yes, I sold houses like water, and made a fortune there too. Jobs, houses, cars, it was all fast and furious. (See what I did there?)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I see. So only bright and cheery shit about Reagan is allowed here. And this rule made by Mr Bright and Cheery hisowndamnself.

BKB

[Thumper]

I see. So only bright and cheery shit about Reagan is allowed here. And this rule made by Mr Bright and Cheery hisowndamnself.

BKB

Bright and Cheery???? I thought he was a curmudgeon! ;)

[Buckrub]

No, that's not valid either. That's an invalid extreme to go to. NO one said "ONLY" anything. That statement is just a tactic to divert the discussion.

But what you said wasn't about Reagan. It was your attempt to get yet another dig in, on W. Even that is almost ok, but when you do not allow the same exact sentiment to be stated about Obama, that's when it gets started.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well I thought this was about Reagan, not Obama. And the Bushes are a legacy of Ronald Reagan. After all, Bush cleaned up a Reagan mess by pardoning all involved in the Iran contra affair. And Bush and Reagan both granted amnesty to over 3.5 million illegals. both Bush and Reagan took actions to bolster Medicare. Both raised taxes but only Bush paid the price for it. Neither one of those guys would pass muster with the crazies we have running the GOP right now. you guys want to praise Reagan as the greatest president that ever served yet you'd ostracize ANY candidate that did the things both of those presidents did.

I strongly dislike both Bush's as presidents. The elder gets my nod because he's a decorated veteran and an outdoorsman and carried himself with respect. Bush II can kiss my ass and no amount of your whitewashing him will ever make me think otherwise. And without Bush I as president, we'd ever have had Bush II as president. and without Reagan, we wouldn't have had either.

And Obama's performance hasn't had anything to do with the topic of this post: Reagan and Trump. They're important because people say Trump is no conservative. Well friends, neither was Ronald Reagan.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Who was? Anyone?

I don't care what he was. He wasn't a Democrat.

You can label me, and Trump, anything you want. What I actually am, is an Anti-Democratic-Party person. If that has a label, lay it on me. But it's not GOP, or Conservative. Whatever the Democratic Party believes, I believe the opposite. There's zero of their policies I agree with. So I just vote for whoever runs against them. There never will be anyone who is for all that I'm for.

[Chicken Dinner]

Barry, I think that's a pretty good analysis and I agree with it for the most part. I don't recall the animosity starting with Bush I. My recollection was that it started with the Clinton and got worse with the electoral college fiasco from Bush II/Gore. (I don't claim that to be an impartial view point as I think Clinton, who in reality didn't do that bad of a job running things, did more to tarnish the office than any President since Nixon.)

My biggest gripe with Bush I at he time was not finishing off Saddam Hussein. History, I think, has proven him right and not me. All that's done is further stabilize he region and we have Bush II and the neocons to blame for that bit of hubris.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Glad you have such a sound basis for your political beliefs and glad its working out so well for you then. Mine isn't much different, only like 180 degrees, but the methodology is much the same.

But don't try to bullshit your way through the reality of what these guys stood for. Both parties have morphed to the point, and you make it all the time, that a moderate has no voice any more. Nor do they even get an objective ear when it comes to how we should do things. And folks of your ilk have turned politics into hatred. I once read a post you made where you said you couldn't see yourself being friends with a liberal. The gist of it was that they are immoral. (Time to bring the abortion issue again in case you missed the chance thought I'd remind).

so enjoy Trump. You got what you deserved. I hope he wins the nomination.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Barry, I think that's a pretty good analysis and I agree with it for the most part. I don't recall the animosity starting with Bush I. My recollection was that it started with the Clinton and got worse with the electoral college fiasco from Bush II/Gore. (I don't claim that to be an impartial view point as I think Clinton, who in reality didn't do that bad of a job running things, did more to tarnish the office than any President since Nixon.)

My biggest gripe with Bush I at he time was not finishing off Saddam Hussein. History, I think, has proven him right and not me. All that's done is further stabilize he region and we have Bush II and the neocons to blame for that bit of hubris.


Funny, but I thought Bush I did a much better job with Iraq than II. He outlined the mission, went in and did it, and came home. And I think he realized that as bad an actor that Saddam was, taking him down at the time would have created what we have today in Syria and in Iraq.

Funny how viewpoints differ.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Glad you have such a sound basis for your political beliefs and glad its working out so well for you then. Mine isn't much different, only like 180 degrees, but the methodology is much the same.

But don't try to bullshit your way through the reality of what these guys stood for. Both parties have morphed to the point, and you make it all the time, that a moderate has no voice any more. Nor do they even get an objective ear when it comes to how we should do things. And folks of your ilk have turned politics into hatred. I once read a post you made where you said you couldn't see yourself being friends with a liberal. The gist of it was that they are immoral. (Time to bring the abortion issue again in case you missed the chance thought I'd remind).

so enjoy Trump. You got what you deserved. I hope he wins the nomination.

BKB

Sigh.

I consider that a very low blow.

I am friends with several Liberals. I don't remember any such post. I don't feel that way. I remember, however, you saying that you hated George W Bush and would hate him even if he cured cancer. You didn't give reasons.

When you accuse me of things, it seems to me that even if the accusation is untrue, that you are just as guilty.

And when I hear you say, as you did the other day, that you consider Bernie Sanders a moderate, then I sort of discount your view of what a moderate is. But I do agree that it is not me that wishes for a Moderate to be in charge. And I have not turned politics into hatred............but I do believe I can pick out very hateful statements in almost every political post that you make. I assume you don't see those, but I do.

I do see why folks on this site that I THINK agree with me politically, don't post anymore, though.

[Buckrub]

And not once have I said I was a Trump supporter.

[Chicken Dinner]

No, actually I think we're in complete agreement. At the time, I thought Bush 1 should have finished the job and screw he chaos that ensued. History showed me to be completely wrong and I see that pretty clearly now. In my defense, I saw the error of my ways and disagreed with Bush II and his nation building plans from the start.

[Buckrub]

so enjoy Trump. You got what you deserved. I hope he wins the nomination.

BKB

I was going to describe to you, and Hank, why those right wingnut guys like Trump, and probably why Thump started the post. The list is long, but basically he says what they are thinking...........on most every subject.......and they are willing to give in to a few of his liberal policies, the ones that they can't win anyway, because of this. I have not supported him, I'm just reporting what folks I am around say. Here is a perfect example of why folks like the things he says:

This is from him and Cuomo.........

Do you think it is time to do something else about guns?” Cuomo asked. “Would you do something different with gun policy?”

“I don’t think I would, because this is really a sick person,” Trump said of the WDBJ shooter. “This isn’t a gun problem, this is a mental problem.”

Trump cited the recent thwarted terror attack on a Paris-bound train where U.S. servicemen helped take down the gunman and argued they could’ve more easily defended themselves if they were armed.

“Frankly, you know, a case like this, he snuck up on them — whether it was with a gun or a knife or whatever it would’ve been, it would’ve been something,” Trump said of the WDBJ shooting. “You’re not going to get rid of all guns.”

He continued, “I know one thing: if you tried to do it, the bad guys would have them…and the good folks would abide by the law — they’d be hopeless, and it would just be a hopeless situation for them.”

[DeputyDog]

Glad you have such a sound basis for your political beliefs and glad its working out so well for you then. Mine isn't much different, only like 180 degrees, but the methodology is much the same.

But don't try to bullshit your way through the reality of what these guys stood for. Both parties have morphed to the point, and you make it all the time, that a moderate has no voice any more. Nor do they even get an objective ear when it comes to how we should do things. And folks of your ilk have turned politics into hatred.

BKB

From reading theses posts, you are the one that started with the negative comments about anyone. I don't know what "ilk" to blame, but you seem to be infected by the hatred too.

[BarryBobPosthole]

FYI, as you pointed out, I may have different definition of a moderate. In my definition a moderate is a person that won't step on his ideological dick. Ronald Reagan was one of the great moderates of our time as I've been trying to point out to you with several examples. He hated Medicare, yet he signed bills and worked with the Congress to save it and expand it. He did a lot of things that were outside of his ideological beliefs but were for the greater good of the country. He was bigger than he was supposed to be. A wingnut, or radical, or 'non-moderate' would be one of the 'my way or the highway' idiots we have in there today. Our system wasn't designed so that one party or one segment of the people could cram their ideals into law. It was designed so that from both sides of the argument we could decide the best course and take it. sometimes that's compromise, sometimes it isn't, and I understand that. But again, my whole point was to agree with whoever the hell said it that reagan was the best president of our time but to point out that it was his willingness to get outside of his personal belief box to make things happen that led him to do his greatest things.
And of the current field, Sanders and Kasich both fit that definition of what a moderate is. Nobody else really does that I've seen.
BKB

[Captain]

GOD I agree with Posthole on an issue other than fishing knots and white likker!

[BarryBobPosthole]

From reading theses posts, you are the one that started with the negative comments about anyone. I don't know what "ilk" to blame, but you seem to be infected by the hatred too.

I'm not sure how to disagree with you or Bucky any more without you both getting your panties in a wad. I think you both need to grow some thicker skin but tht's just my opinion.

BKB

[Buckrub]

I probably do. That's a fault of mine.

But I do need to be able to notice when you are being meaner than a junkyard snake, and hypocritical to boot, and say so without YOU getting all ticked, too.

But that's just my opinion.

[Buckrub]

I'm not sure how to disagree with you or Bucky any more without you both getting your panties in a wad. I think you both need to grow some thicker skin but tht's just my opinion.

BKB

But.....you know NTB is right in this case. We might not need thicker skin if you'd not try and claim we are guilty of stuff and you ain't! You is too!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I see, so now I'm mean as snake. All because of what? Where did I say something mean to you? Because I said you'd said before you couldn't be friends with a liberal? You said it, and you've said it more than once. But that doesn't really matter.
You're a self procalimed immoderate. And that's fine and dandy. But don't get all butt hurt when somebody has a different opinion and calls you out on bullshit.

This is what you posted that I said was bullshit.
"I don't care what he was. He wasn't a Democrat.
You can label me, and Trump, anything you want. What I actually am, is an Anti-Democratic-Party person. If that has a label, lay it on me. But it's not GOP, or Conservative. Whatever the Democratic Party believes, I believe the opposite. There's zero of their policies I agree with. So I just vote for whoever runs against them. There never will be anyone who is for all that I'm for."


It might be your pure political belief (and I happen to know it isn't), but it's still bullshit. And as I TRIED to point out many times to get back to the original subject of the post, it certainly wasn't the description of the man most conservatives view as the greatest president ever.

And quit trying to make this post about you and me. It isn't. Its about Reagan. Or at least it was until you got all butt hurt.

BKB

[Captain]

Hehehe Posty said Butt Hurt. :D

[Buckrub]

See?
A) It ain't bullcrap. It's real, valid, and you can't stand it. So you get mean as a snake. Then you say you aren't doing that. My great gracious and a biscuit.

B) I never said such a thing. Prove it. If I didn't say it, saying that I did is being mean as a snake, ain't it?

C) "THIS post"? This is Goodhunting. Thumper can get over my bringing up baseball in a Nascar post, and you can get over my talking about me and you in ANY Post! Crap, dude............me and you are about 83.5054% of why this place is not dead as a freaking hammer!

D) You ain't butt hurt me! See, there you go again. If you disagree, you're doing it the right way. But when I call you out, I'm 'butt hurt'. And that post seems you're more butt hurt than I am.

E) I can call my position "Moderate" if I want to. You do it.

Can we talk baseball? If I have to talk about Trump and Hillary and That Crap for 420 more days I'm going postal!

[LJ3]

You guys spend way too much time arguing about how you argue. You're gonna cause a black hole or schism shift of some kind of you keep it up!

Yes... I said schism shift. band name!

[Captain]

5486

[airbud7]

http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif

[BarryBobPosthole]

You're all full of doo doo, poo poo, caca, and good ole number two!

BKB

[Buckrub]

I thought I was full of water.

I can't keep up.

[Buckrub]

Thump, to revert back and actually answer your first post on this.............I read a really good editorial today that maybe expresses what you were saying originally. He really is an enigma. And he really is polarizing. But hey, so is every single important issue of the day.

____________________________

Despite a nuclear Iran looming on the horizon, the media seem to be putting most of their attention on two candidates for their respective parties' presidential nominations next year. Moreover, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump each make their own parties nervous.

If next year's election comes down to Clinton versus Trump, a lot of people may simply stay home in disgust.

When we are this far away from the official start of the primary election season, we can usually just say, "It's still early." Many a front-runner this early in the process ended up out of the running by the time the party conventions were held, and totally forgotten by election day.

That is the way it usually is. But that is not likely to be the way it will be this time.

This is Hillary Clinton's last hurrah. It is now or never for her.

Even if an investigation finds Mrs. Clinton guilty of violating the law in the way she handled emails when she was secretary of state, the Obama administration is not likely to prosecute her. And President Obama can always pardon her, so that the next administration cannot prosecute her either. So Hillary doesn't even have to take a plea bargain.

On the Republican side, former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has pointed out that if Donald Trump can continue to get 20 or 25 percent of the Republican voters on his side, he can build up a formidable lead of delegates in winner-take-all primaries.

It will not matter if 60 percent of the Republican voters turn against him if that 60 percent is split up among all the other Republican candidates, with none of those candidates getting more votes than Trump.

Sometimes financial backers can withdraw their support and force a stubborn candidate to drop out of the race. But Trump has enough money of his own to stay in the race as long as he wants to, even if that ruins the Republicans' chances of winning the 2016 elections.

Ironically, the Republicans have a much stronger set of presidential candidates than usual to choose from this year. But the media obsession with Trump means that even the best of these candidates are not likely to get enough exposure for most voters to get to know much about them.

Governors with superb records--such as Bobby Jindal in Louisiana and Scott Walker in Wisconsin--may not have much name recognition on the national scene. And certainly the little sound bites in the so-called "debates" are not likely to tell the voters much.

This is not just the candidates' problem. With this country facing historic dangers, both internally and internationally, we urgently need to find someone with depth, insight and courage as the next president of the United States.

But with the media obsessed with Donald Trump's show-biz talents and persona--and covering everything he says, does or might do, 24/7--how are the voters to sort through the large number of Republican candidates to find a couple that are worth getting to know more thoroughly?

It will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. And never was finding that needle, the right leader, more important for the nation.

Internally, we are so polarized over immigration that our current "leaders" have left our borders wide open to terrorists from around the world, rather than take the political risks of offending voters on one side of this issue or offending voters on the opposite side. Instead, they risk American lives by their inaction.

Internationally, our leaders have written a blank check for our most dangerous and fanatical enemy--Iran--to get both nuclear bombs and the missiles to deliver them. And the Obama administration, with a track record of huge shameless lies, offers us its reassurances.

We had better find that needle in a haystack, someone who can salvage a desperate situation. Flamboyant rhetoric is not enough.

[FooBang]

I'm not so worried about him setting the conservatives back 30 years. I'm more worried about him setting a match to the planet. There is a reason diplomacy is a thing.

[Buckrub]

I worry more that Obama has done that way more than Trump would.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-may-have-built-extension-at-disputed-military-site-un-nuclear-watchdog/ar-BBm9KAA

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-unveils-short-range-ballistic-missile-133417138.html

I'd imagine that someone brash as Trump just might save us from that match.

[Nandy]

http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike
You know it's thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight...