Open Carry Arkansas, the lastest

[No-till Boss]

http://1.usa.gov/1i88XES

[FooBang]

Why did I read that in Kevin Spacey's voice?

[Buckrub]

Too many people consider an AG opinion to be law, or precedent.

Can't be........clearly. Simply, if for no other reason, than the last two AG's in this state are diametrically opposed in their opinions. As well may be the next one.

The best case for a concrete understanding is if/when the Bald Knob case that just got a conviction in municipal court is appealed (which it will be) and finally heard and adjudicated by a meaningful court.

[quercus alba]

Police officer told me recently there is no open carry in Arkansas. Most don't enforce it but you can be prosecuted for it.

[Buckrub]

AG just disputed that. Previous one agreed. Bald Knob nutbag Chief disagreed.

We ain't gonna know till a higher court rules. Period.

[No-till Boss]

I'm pretty sure, as of RIGHT now, we in Arkansas can open carry. Now we just have to get all the law enforcement on the same page, or rewrite the law.

[Buckrub]

And QA's LEO disagrees.

I keep saying, it's all a meaningless opinion UNTIL a higher meaningful court rules. You can opine all you want.

[No-till Boss]

And QA's LEO disagrees.

I keep saying, it's all a meaningless opinion UNTIL a higher meaningful court rules. You can opine all you want.

Well it's coming..... and without a change, it will be that you can open carry. It's pretty simple !

[No-till Boss]

They just said on the News that you can open carry .

[Buckrub]

And QA's LEO will arrest you. As will others.

Hello??

[No-till Boss]

Do you scream at the moon ???? You know, only one person was arrested for open carry and it was because of a earlier incident ? It's legal, they said it on the news, so did that link, you can't be arrested for something that is legal ! Good grief ......

[Arty]

Do you scream at the moon ????


does howling count as screaming?

[BarryBobPosthole]

How about baying?

BKB

[Thumper]

All of the above ... 'course, Bucky calls it "singing". ;)

[Buckrub]

Do you scream at the moon ???? You know, only one person was arrested for open carry and it was because of a earlier incident ? It's legal, they said it on the news, so did that link, you can't be arrested for something that is legal ! Good grief ......

You THINK it's legal. It MAY be. This AG said it is. The previous said NO IT ISN'T.

Do you ever listen to anything other than those reverberating voices in your head????

[Thumper]

You THINK it's legal. It MAY be. This AG said it is. The previous said NO IT ISN'T.

Ummmm, stupid question ... If the PRESENT AG says it's legal ... does it really matter what the PREVIOUS AG said? :confused:

[No-till Boss]

You THINK it's legal. It MAY be. This AG said it is. The previous said NO IT ISN'T.

Do you ever listen to anything other than those reverberating voices in your head????

ME ????? I'm quoting the News and the top source in the State !!!!! Who is listening to voices now ???

[Buckrub]

You are NOT quoting the top source in the State. That's what I'm telling you.

The Chief Justice of The Arkansas Supreme Court is the top legal source in the State. You are quoting a Lawyer.

[No-till Boss]

Ummmm, stupid question ... If the PRESENT AG says it's legal ... does it really matter what the PREVIOUS AG said? :confused:

I'll bet you a cast iron skillet, when they reverse this law, he then say it's legal ! LOL and will probably be the first to be busted !

[Buckrub]

Google (if you know how) "How binding is an AG opinion?" and read all night, if you want. But you are dead wrong.

[Buckrub]

Ummmm, stupid question ... If the PRESENT AG says it's legal ... does it really matter what the PREVIOUS AG said? :confused:

Yes.

It matters because both are (duh) OPINIONS and not binding legal precedents.

This is like talking to kindergarten kids. Did any of you take Civics in school anywhere?

[No-till Boss]

You are NOT quoting the top source in the State. That's what I'm telling you.

The Chief Justice of The Arkansas Supreme Court is the top legal source in the State. You are quoting a Lawyer.

The didn't ask the Chief Justice, because there was NO NEED TO !

[Buckrub]

Oh yes there is!

Good night, Scott. You don't deal with being dead wrong well.........just somethin' I've noticed about ya!

:beerbust

[No-till Boss]

Google (if you know how) "How binding is an AG opinion?" and read all night, if you want. But you are dead wrong.

They said it was legal on the News tonight, are you saying they are wrong too ???

[Buckrub]

Duh.

I'm saying neither the News nor the Ark AG gets to decide what is actually legal.

[Buckrub]

Did you Google what I asked?

Nope. You are just bloviating.

[No-till Boss]

Duh.

I'm saying neither the News nor the Ark AG gets to decide what is actually legal.

Well you need to call them then, because BOTH of them said it was legal ......

[No-till Boss]

Rutledge, while maintaining that she does not encourage “open carry”, said a person may carry a weapon in plain view if they are not violating state or federal law.

[Buckrub]

Sigh.

Knock yourself out, man. Let us know how it turns out. I am not calling anyone. They would be as recalcitrant and stubborn as you are, I don't doubt.

But it's clear that you must be a Liberal Democrat. Because you have no intentions of listening to the 'other' side of any argument. You just want to talk and not listen. You've said the same thing over and over, and not paid one minute's attention to what I have said.

I'm right on this one. Sorry.

[No-till Boss]

Sigh.

Knock yourself out, man. Let us know how it turns out. I am not calling anyone. They would be as recalcitrant and stubborn as you are, I don't doubt.

But it's clear that you must be a Liberal Democrat. Because you have no intentions of listening to the 'other' side of any argument. You just want to talk and not listen. You've said the same thing over and over, and not paid one minute's attention to what I have said.

I'm right on this one. Sorry.

There is no argument Bill, everyone is saying it's legal BUT you.......WTF ??????

[Buckrub]

No, that's also totally invalid.

Many people are saying it's questionable, and I'm one of them. YOU are debating that fact, and using as 100% proof some lawyer's OPINION, which I've shown you over and over is NOT a legal precedent. QA even told you of a LEO he knows that WILL arrest you for it.

Then, you are berating me for not agreeing with your untenable position.

Ball game time. Night.

[Buckrub]

Open Carry may be legal here.

But some blonde AG's opinion is NOT the way to prove that.

[No-till Boss]

No, that's also totally invalid.

Many people are saying it's questionable, and I'm one of them. YOU are debating that fact, and using as 100% proof some lawyer's OPINION, which I've shown you over and over is NOT a legal precedent. QA even told you of a LEO he knows that WILL arrest you for it.

Then, you are berating me for not agreeing with your untenable position.

Ball game time. Night.

The ONLY way you can be right on this, is if they rewrite/change the law from where it is now.....

[Buckrub]

Scott, listen.

The previous AG said it was ILLEGAL. This one says LEGAL.

Both opinions are based on the SAME law.

Yet for some reason, you want to hang your hat on ONLY this AG's opinion. If an AG opinion is as binding as you say, how do we reconcile the last two OFFICIAL opinions, that are contradictory?

The current law, as it is written, means something. What that something is, cannot be legally and officially determined by an AG opinion. It CAN be determined by a Higher Court ruling. That's where it has to come from to be certain.

This is not a hard concept. I think you can get it, you just like what Rutledge said so you aren't going to admit she's not a binding legal precedent.

[No-till Boss]

Listen Bill

You've put me down and insulted me in almost EVERY ONE of your replies, right now, you're fucking wrong, deal with it !

[Arty]

Unbiased opinion here....

I think buckster is right.

If it is the way it's been explained then how the hell could he be wrong?

Tell ya what.
Yall bofe start walking the streets openly carrying and you'll soon find out who's right.

Just don't walk past QA's LEO buddy.

[No-till Boss]

Unbiased opinion here....

I think buckster is right.

If it is the way it's been explained then how the hell could he be wrong?


Tell ya what.
Yall bofe start walking the streets openly carrying and you'll soon find out who's right.

Just don't walk past QA's LEO buddy.
Assuming I was stopped tomorrow walking down the street open carry by the LEO. All I'd have to do is pull the news clip up on my phone and let the LEO watch it.....It clearly says you can open carry . I don't see what the problem is. ?

[BarryBobPosthole]

Don't tase me bro.

BKB

[Thumper]

Question, what's happening with that dufe who was arrested in Bald Knob? Are they dropping the charges? It seems that would explain what the law is. Does your legislature know how to write laws in English? Why is the interpretation so muddy in the first place?

[Buckrub]

Question, what's happening with that dufe who was arrested in Bald Knob? Are they dropping the charges? It seems that would explain what the law is. Does your legislature know how to write laws in English? Why is the interpretation so muddy in the first place?

He was convicted. Guilty.

[Buckrub]

Listen Bill

You've put me down and insulted me in almost EVERY ONE of your replies, right now, you're fucking wrong, deal with it !

I'm not putting YOU down, man. I'm putting down this ONE opinion of yours. You're dead, flat, plain wrong. You started this by saying "This is now official. We can legally open carry".

THAT is dead, flat, wrong. You are a smart man. You are a good man. But on THIS ONE THING, you are wrong.

Sorry.

[Buckrub]

Assuming I was stopped tomorrow walking down the street open carry by the LEO. All I'd have to do is pull the news clip up on my phone and let the LEO watch it.....It clearly says you can open carry . I don't see what the problem is. ?

The LEO would say "I don't care what some lawyer says. That isn't binding. Show me a court precedent".

There is ONE and ONLY one court precedent so far. Guilty. It says you can NOT open carry. Pay a fine. Guilty.

Will this ultimately be found to be legal to open carry per THIS law? Yes, I think so. But not as of today, and the AG opinion is not the sole criteria, and certainly not some news clip for gosh sakes. When did a news clip become legal precedent???

[Thumper]

He was convicted. Guilty.

Well, I guess that pretty well sums it up. 'Course he may win on appeal, who knows? But I see your point Bucky and you're probably right. I think there are a few people in Arkie government who need to be tarred and feathered for letting this confusion go on though. But that's just MHO. What a screwed up mess.

[No-till Boss]

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) – State officials are voicing their interpretations of the current open carry law in Arkansas.

The Lieutenant Governor and Attorney General believe the current gun law allows Arkansans to carry handguns openly. The issue came about because of confusion surrounding a law passed in 2013.

Lt. Governor Tim Griffin said, "Despite what former Attorney General Dustin McDaniel said, I believe the law, as written, does authorize open carry."

Meanwhile Attorney General Leslie Rutledge said, "Anytime law enforcement and citizens disagree on a law we need to ensure there is clarity to protect our citizens."

Both agree open carry is legal until the legislature passes a measure clarifying the issue.

[No-till Boss]

​Side note for the board


Bucky, is siding with the interpretation of a Democratic ..... just for the record.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Truth me known, he's a closet liberal.

He even loves french fries.

BKB

[Captain]

Truth me known, he's a closet liberal. He even loves french fries. BKB
Yea and he dips them in ranch dressing or mayo.... Yuk!

[Captain]

North Carolina has open carry. However they have a charge called "going armed to the terror of the public"
Basically it's OK to carry open but you should not carry into a place where you are likely to cause panic. Like a bank or some such place.
I don't really agree with it but it's what we have.

[Thumper]

Personally, I don't care for open carry. It would be MUCH easier for me, as the dress code here is basically shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops year 'round. Concealed carry can be a bit of a hassle, especially if you want to carry anything more than a .380! BUT, that said, I look at open carry as an "in your face" thing. We gun owners face enough criticism from the general public without walking around town looking like Marshall Dillon. Besides, I kinda like the element of surprise if someone decideds to "F" with me. I really don't want some perp to know I have a gun so he can plan on how to handle whatever he has in mind (or take it from me using HIS element of surprise). Maybe it would be a deterrent, maybe an invitation, who knows?

I remember years ago, Bubbles was basically "bragging" about the time she and a large group of her cohorts decided to walk into a restaurant as a large group for dinner one night, and each had their sidearms strapped on in open-carry mode. It was nothing more than an "in your face", "look at me, look at me" move IMHO. I love Bubbles to death, but that story kind of went against the grain for me.

That said, I have to pretty much side with No-Till on the AG's interpretation. If you can't go by what the AG says, who CAN you go with? BUT ... I suppose there's still room there for argument because I don't know how the Arkansas government is actually set up, so possibly Bucky is correct. It seems even the AG's power fluctuates from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

In most common law jurisdictions, the attorney-general is the main legal advisor to the government, and in some jurisdictions he or she may also have executive responsibility for law enforcement, prosecutions or even responsibility for legal affairs generally. In practice, the extent to which the attorney-general personally provides legal advice to the government varies between jurisdictions, and even between individual office-holders within the same jurisdiction, often depending on the level and nature of the office-holder's prior legal experience.

You posted a statement from the Lieutenant Governor, what does the GOVERNOR say? It appears somebody in Arkansas needs to get their shit together. The Indians are running the show, but the Chiefs seem to be AWOL.

[Chicken Dinner]

Yea and he dips them in ranch dressing or mayo.... Yuk!

No, it's even worse. He pours gravy on them like some Yankee liberal.:D

[Chicken Dinner]

Or a Canuckian!

That's a low blow...

[BarryBobPosthole]

We've had open carry here in Oklahoma since 2012. I had a lot of the same reservations that you guys do but to be honest, there's really not much difference in the places I go. I rarely see anyone openly carrying. And there's not been any real drama to speak of either. There is some stuff going on in Okie City regarding a street carnival and concert that wants to be a weapon free zone that's got the usual crazies from both sides arguing in the paper, but its a tempest in a teapot. There also hasn't been any appreciable change in crime either way, which was one of the things open carry was supposed to discourage.
My take on it now? Let people do what they want to. At least here, the public is handling it very well, thank you.

BKB

[Thumper]

That's pretty much the way it is everywhere I've been where open carry is legal. Most folks choose no to. I agree, to each his own, I just don't care for it "personally" and doubt there would be many instances where I'd choose to carry openly.

[Buckrub]

I can discuss whether I like it or not all day. I understand both sides to that argument. This is not that argument.

I understand what Scott is saying. I am NOT trying to claim that Open Carry is, or is not, legal. I know that those who want it, are clamoring over this law that THEY think is clear, and now this AG's opinion that it's legal. Of course, they didn't much care for the last AG's opinion on it!

And that's my point. A person can NOT validly use an O P I N I O N of a lawyer to state what is, or is not legal........because that would mean that in Arkansas this law meant open carry was illegal from the time it was passed till yesterday, and the same law means that open carry is legal as of yesterday. Now, geez, guys..........that's patently absurd.

And THAT was, and remains, my sole point. I would hope and pray that either the Bald Knob case gets to the S.C. and is ruled that it's legal, or that the Legislature fixes it. The former is possible, the latter is probably not. As Jim says, Arkansas is a political mess and always will be. Nutbags from Gooberville have always run this state, and always will. And most of them would look for 2nd base on a football field.

And I don't know if I'm siding with a Democrat or not. I don't know which one. I haven't sided with anyone yet. I have merely stated a FACT that an AG opinion is not binding. That's all I've said. And besides, even if I was doing that, how do you know the Democrat isn't siding with me??

And I do like gravy on french fries. Gravy goes on potatoes. Ketchup goes on french fries. Vinegar, however, does NOT (and yes, you know who you are!). But I don't really care much for french fries at all. If I get them as a side when I order a hamburger, e.g., I usually eat about 5 of 'em.

[No-till Boss]

Legisators asked Leslie Rutledge two and a half months ago, this was not a snap decision made over cocktails one night.

[Buckrub]

I am so happy that her NON BINDING decision was made slowly.

[No-till Boss]

Dustin McDaniel has a cabin about 5 minutes from me, I think will ride over and tell him I found his only supporter on open carry.

[Buckrub]

You have not read ONE word from me on this thread about my personal opinion of whether it's legal or not legal.

Not one word.

I have one point only. And that is, that your original contention that an AG opinion is binding and officially legal, is wrong.

IF you ride over there, tell him you believe HIS AG opinion is bunk, and Leslie's is valid and binding.........on the same law.

[No-till Boss]

One question Bill, and I want either a yes or a no answer. Do you believe with the law we have written now, do believe that open carry is legal in Arkansas at stated ?

And for the record, I know Dustin and his wife very well .

[Buckrub]

No.

And for the record, I am a STAUNCH supporter of Open Carry. Ask Thump. We've argued it for years.

I am sad that this law had a chance to be written correctly, and wasn't. It's too vague. The Bald Knob case proves that. And Leslie's ruling is no more binding than Dustin's was. That was my sole point.

I believe the Bald Knob case will come to a higher court and THEN, and ONLY THEN, will we have a legal precedent.

And this is my first shot in THIS thread of stating my opinion.

[No-till Boss]

The Bald Knob guy was arressted for disorderly conduct too..... you failed to mention that. He also walked thru a place that had students, even tho they were only cosmetology students.

[Buckrub]

Well that's just awful! Students!

NOW who is being a Democrat? :)

[No-till Boss]

Well that's just awful! Students!

NOW who is being a Democrat? :)

Well Billy, I can open carry, by the law, however you're restricted by your own limitations ! Cleary you're the Democrat !

[Buckrub]

I have open carried long before the writers of Act 746 were dreams in their Daddy's eye.

[Buckrub]

And I'll give you $100 to strap on a hogleg .45 and walk up and down Capitol Avenue in Little Rock all day today and tomorrow.