Awww CRAP! This sucks great big giant weenies!

[Thumper]

During my last "major" (on heart by-pass machine) surgery, they installed a filter to stop any blood clots from traveling to my heart. Immediately after the surgery, the doc told me I'd need to come in and have it removed after a year. The year passed and everytime I asked about it, it was brushed aside as no big deal. I finally demanded a sit-down conference to find out why I was getting conflicting info ... the doc who installed it, said take it out after a year, but the subsequent docs pretty much ignored the whole situation. I asked for a definitive explanation and was told it has not created any problems and is safer to leave in place. They told me the process of removal can many times lead to complications ... a perforated artery would be the most common.

NOW there's a big stink going on about the manufacturer knowing there were flaws in the filters from the beginning and there has been an on-going cover-up. Now hundreds have failed and caused serious injuries and there have been 27 deaths.

I've been reading up on them and have found this old report (2011) so who knows what the numbers are now? (I've had mine for 6 years) :(

The FDA warned that IVC filters are for short-term use in patients at risk for pulmonary embolism and implanting doctors are to retrieve the devices once the patient’s risk subsides. The agency is concerned that doctors are not retrieving IVC filters intended for short-term placement, exposing patients to further health risks caused by fractured devices.

According to the FDA’s report, since 2005 the agency had received 921 adverse event reports involving IVC filters; 328 involved device migration, 146 involved detachments of device components and embolizations, 70 involved perforation of the IVC, and 56 involved filter breaking. According to the Interventional Radiology Clinic of Washington University, an IVC implant device carries a risk of damage to blood vessels, bruising, bleeding at the puncture site, filter lodging, injury of a nearby organ, and detachment, which could cause injury to the heart or lungs and even death. The FDA said it had not issued a safety warning until Dr. William Nicholson’s research brought to light serious health issues with IVC filters, despite receiving an alarming number of adverse event reports.

The majority of adverse event reports received by the FDA involved retrievable IVC filters that were not removed by implanting physicians and clinicians. The agency warns that attending physicians, including interventional radiologists, interventional cardiologists, bariatric surgeons, primary care physicians, vascular surgeons and emergency physicians should follow up with IVC filter recipients as part of providing ongoing care and should refer patients for device removal if the clinical risk of pulmonary embolism has subsided.

So crap ... which way do I go? Risk injury/death REMOVING the device or risk injury/death by NOT removing it? FUCK! :(

Here's the most recent with video:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/did-blood-clot-filter-used-thousands-americans-have-fatal-flaw-n384536

[Buckrub]

IBC filter chasing lawyers are all over the tv here. Get one and get rich.

Then go get a top shelf doctor's second opinion.

That's my advice, good or bad.

And praying for you, whether you want it or not. Major stuff....keep us posted....hoping for the best.

[Thumper]

Yeah, I think I'd rather be alive than rich. I told Lynn I wanted to think this through and all I got from her was two words, "OUT ... NOW!!!

Guess I'll have to call my doc tomorrow and see what's up. Man I'm SO tired of getting poked, prodded and cut on. :(

[Buckrub]

I didn't mean do it sequentially.

You need a new doc.

There. I said it.

[Captain]

You NEED to get the hell away from that band-aid station that put you in this shape to start with. There I said it...

[Thumper]

Ummmm, it's been standard procedure all over the country forever and a day ... private hospitals, county hospitals, government hospitals ... doesn't matter. The manufacturer has been lying and covering this up since day one and the FDA has dragged their feet through the whole process. The best hospitals in the country have been leaving them in and it seems to be a personal opinion after weighing the risks/benefits involved that they use to form their opinions. It ain't the hospitals/doctors as much as it is the manufacturer who's at fault here. Half of my doctors are from private hospitals anyway. What it boils down to is ... it's just an f'ing mess.

[Thumper]

You need a new doc.

I've prolly seen 5-6 different cardiac docs over the years. The last one sat down and told me the risks involved and it seemed to both of us, leaving it in was safer than removing it.

'Course, at that time, nobody knew they were falling apart!

[Buckrub]

A lot of systems are broke.

Today, Hospice dropped my brother. His mind is gone. Not sure where to turn.

I agree with Larke. You can dance around it all day for whatever reason, but you need a true expert. They don't work at VA.

[Big Muddy]

Thump, I got a hunting buddy, who is a very reputable heart doctor down at the University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson, and installs those things hundreds of times a year....I usually only run into him, during the winter months of hunting season....I don't have any contact info. for him, but if you want me to, I'll try to contact him, and see what he would recommend.....it would be a valuable opinion for you.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Another opinion might not be a bad idea, Jim.

Keep your chin up. You'll see a way through this I'll bet.

BKB

[Thumper]

Oh, I'm just gonna let it all soak in right now. I left a message for my Primary Care Physician to contact me tomorrow, so that'll get the ball rolling.

Sure Muddy, the more the merrier I suppose.

Buckster (and Larke), I've explained it many times, doctors/hospitals are a crap shoot. There are some shit doctors at VA, there are shit doctors in the best hospitals .... and there are excellent doctors who make mistakes. It's a flip of a coin sometimes. My dad died after surgery in a highly accredited hospital (private insurance) in San Antonio ... he bled to death after a simple hernia repair (elective surgery). I had a mechanic friend who complained of constant pain after surgery in a major hospital in Los Angeles (company insurance plan) ... once they sent him to xray, they found a surgical instrument still in his abdomen. My best buddy in Texas went to the hospital in Waco (State insurance, he was a prison guard) and they sent him home after telling him he had the flu. He died numerous times in the ambulance on the way back to the hospital where he was diagnosed with meningitis. He's a mess now, no feet, no fingers and scarred over 100% of his body ... looks like he's been burned. I took Lynn to the Emergency Room here in town to a private hospital ... they put her in an examining room (around midnight) and forgot she was there. We found her at 8:00 the next morning (shift change), sound asleep on a gurney ... luckily the problem was not life threatening.

As for VA, my Primary Care Physician is solid gold and she saved my life when ANY civilian doctor would have said, "See ya' next year" (truthfully). My first surgeon was a quack (IMO) and he was fired shortly after my initial surgery. My next doctor had a private practice for something like 20 years and went to work for the VA because he got sick and tired of paying through the nose for malpractice insurance even though, in his entire career, he'd never had a claim. My plastic surgeon is one of only three micro-surgeons in the state. He and his wife are both doctors and share a successful private practice. My present (cardiac) doctor has his own practice and is also an instructor at the University of Tampa Medical School. (Most VA doctors are not military, not that there's anything wrong with that) ;)

It's way too easy to simply make a blanket statement that if the hospital has a VA sign out front, you're being issued a death sentence. Like doctors, car mechanics or telecom dufes, some are shitbirds and some are worth their weight in gold. You simply have to find the right one ... which ain't always easy. I always take Lynn with me now, she has a way of weeding them out. VA has a policy, if you don't care for your doctor, all you have to do is request another one. Oh, and it's FREE and I'm poor!

[Captain]

"My dad died after surgery in a highly accredited hospital (private insurance) in San Antonio ... he bled to death after a simple hernia repair (elective surgery)."

Thanks a lot Bud! I'm going in for hernia surgery the 18th... :-(

[Buckrub]

My son just had hernia surgery......in a VA hospital. Did fine.

Jim, no one says leave your guy. Just get a 2nd opinion.

[Thumper]

"My dad died after surgery in a highly accredited hospital (private insurance) in San Antonio ... he bled to death after a simple hernia repair (elective surgery)."

Thanks a lot Bud! I'm going in for hernia surgery the 18th... :-(

Larke, he was still working full time and had the hernia for many years. It didn't really bother him (I have one also), but when the economy tanked and limousine sales were in the toilet, he decided it was a good time to take care of it while business was slow. He went in for the surgery on Friday and they sent him home on Saturday with a bottle full of pain pills. He was hurting Saturday night and Sunday, but figured that was expected and must be what the pain pills were for. I talked to him Sunday night and he said he was REALLY hurting and had actually hoped to work on Monday, but didn't think he'd be able to. Monday morning he was dead ... frigging bled to death internally.

So, I guess if you're really hurting ... go back in!

Buckster, yeah, I have no problem with second opinions and will definitely do that. I've been reading up on this thing on the net and there are a bazillion people out there who had these things installed, but they were never removed. It appears that was pretty much normal SOP from what I can tell. With my luck, I'll get four opinions ... 2 will say remove it and 2 will say leave it in! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

Jim, I understand what you're saying and believe me, I think that confidence in your doctor is 75% of the battle a lot of the time. It means when you do get around to making a plan to do whatever it is you decide, you'll have confidence in the plan too and that's really really important.
But there's times too when a second opinion can give you that confidence as well. I went through it myself. I have a 80% blockage in my right carotid. My heart doc has been looking at on ultrasound for five years now and there's not been any change good or bad. He also did a arteriogram on it . My regular doc, who I've known for 32 years, got a new ultrasound machine and did his own and said it had gotten worse. So he referred me to a vascular surgeon, who did a test of some kind on a CT scanner and told me it hadn't changed a bit and if I wasn't having any symptoms then he wouldn't worry one bit about it. So I haven't. My regular doc didn't believe him and wanted me to go on Plavix. I told him to fuck off and as of this day I ain't taking no Plavix. But the important point is I have three opinions on this deal and the two specialists who've done their respective tests agree and that gives me a whole lot of confidence. I may die of a stroke tomorrow, but I'll die a confident man!

It makes difference and you ought to ask your doc what she thinks about a second opinion and if she'd help you get it. I'm betting a hunnerd dollar bill she will.

BKB

[Thumper]

I understand ... and second, third or fourth opinions are no problem. Heck, as far as that goes, my good hunting buddy has had his own practice all his working life and was also my personal doctor before I started going to the VA. I can also consult him. It used to get a bit freaky at deer camp when he'd look at me and say, "When's the last time I checked your prostate?" I swear, I couldn't tell you how many times he's pulled out a bag of rubber gloves and gave all of us an exam. (that sounds REALLY weird after writing it!) ;)

The way the system works, my Primary Care doctor is here in town. She takes care of all the normal stuff ... like a General Practitioner. If I need a specialist, she makes the appointment with the VA Hospital in Tampa. She's my local contact and we work it from there.

[FooBang]

Face it, Thump. We're just $ bags who exist at the whim of big Pharma.

[Thumper]

Face it, Thump. We're just $ bags who exist at the whim of big Pharma.

True ... unfortunately. :(

[Bwana]

What a crappy position to have to be put into. So sorry you have to deal with this but as others have said, I would talk to at least one more Dr to see what he has to say.

[Thumper]

Oh yeah, I'll definitely be talking to more than one. That's a given.

[Big Muddy]

Okay, Thump, this is what I found out for you....actually, I got lucky, and got two doctor's opinions, as they work referrals together, but at separate medical offices....one is a heart specialist, and the other is a radiologist.

The heart doctor highly recommends to leave it alone....in other words, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
The radiologist is of the complete opposite opinion....he's seen too many of them clog up, and bring on aneurisms.

Sorry, but it doesn't look like I was much help to you, since this puts you right back into the same 50/50 decision-making situation.

I know this is a heavy decision for you and Lynn, so I got another contact that I'm gonna seek out and intervene, on your behalf...."HE" really can work miracles, as you already know, from your past medical recoveries....andithinkyouknowwhoimtalkingabout. ;)

[Thumper]

Ha ha! Thanks Muddy! Yep, that's basically the same thing I've been running into. Every doc has an opinion, and unfortunately, it's like talking to Democrats and Republicans! ;)

My doc is going to set up a consultation with a cardiologist and a thoracic surgeon for me. I didn't realize Monday is a holiday, but I should hear something by Tuesday. This is crazy!

[airbud7]

Thump, just let me change your oil filter next time...:trainwreck
j/k...best of luck on that buddy.

[Thumper]

Ha! I should'a been born a Toyota ... then I wouldn't need no dang doctors! ;)

[Big Muddy]

Dang, Thump, I guess I sparked some interest about your case....just got this message from a doctor in Vicksburg, who is friends with the radiologist guy from my earlier post....you'll prolly understand his medical terminology lots better than me.


"""I'm pretty sure it was just an issue with the Recovery filters. All others are pretty safe. There are lots of different types of IVC filters in production. I use them on my patients when needed. Unless he has a Recovery, he should be ok."""

[Thumper]

Well, I'll give ya' one guess as to which one I gots. :(

[LJ3]

At this point. I think I'd have at least 3, may be more, opinions. Crazy stuff.