Agent Orange Act Allowed to Sunset by Congress

[BarryBobPosthole]

Wondering how y'all feel about this.

The pill veterans are asked to swallow is that regardless of the law not being in existence, the head of the VA can still make a determination to provide disabiity benefits if they find new conections to Agent Orange exposure. Given how long it took the Congress to force the VA to acknowledge there was any kind of disability directly connected to Agent Orange in the first place, and the number of veterans who died without any kind of recognition of what caused it, I say FUCK EM. And y'all might want to check and see who is on the Veterans Affairs committees in the House and Senate and let them know how you feel if you feel the same way. This appears to be nothing more than an attempt to shield the VA from additional liability as more scientific findings about Agent Orange will be coming out soon.

This is one area where Trump's plain talk is absolutely true. This is unconscionable
BKB

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/agent-orange-law-changes-as-new-cost-fears-surface-1.373413

[Thumper]

Yep, I'm on the VA's A/O registry which is basically a fast-track through the red tape in case something A/O related springs up in the future. What it amounts to is, I've already been screened and it's been verified I've been exposed to A/O. I've had all the preliminary tests done which essentially sets my "baseline". That way any future health changes, that can be A/O related, can be compared to my baseline. Heck, while I was living in a jungle village, I lived off well water that I'd strain through a t-shirt to remove the mosquito larvae, etc. There was a huge A/O storage facility right up the hill from my bungalo and during the rainy season, the monsoons would turn the village into a large lake of sorts. Years later, we were told that A/O easily seeps into the water supply. I'll guarandamntee you, those 18 year old kids transferring that crap from 55-gal. drums into spray vehicles weren't real careful about spilling a drop or two.

Our compound always looked like a desert ... not a weed, stick or even a blade of grass. During the dry season, the place was a dust bowl and ANY slight breeze would blow a dust cloud through the village. I'm sure it was in the water that I showered in, cooked with and drank! Add the dust that would get in our food and who knows what kind of critters I have crawling around in me? The odd part, I returned to that village about 10 years ago and it's now a lush, jungle-looking area ... TOTALLY grown up and covered with vegetation. Up until just a few years ago, the government denied using A/O in that area! One of the reasons I was there was to try finding evidence as I had a buddy who was there with me, on his death bed with a multitude of A/O related illnesses and he was denied coverage. (he passed away before they admitted A/O exposure there) WE knew it was used ... I was trying to help prove it.

What I don't understand is how the VA will determine what is induced by A/O and what is "normal". My SEAL buddy has A/O disability which kicked in after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He practically LIVED in that stuff and couldn't count the times he was on the ground as they did aerial spraying. They used to take empty A/O drums and build showers with them! BUT .. I also know civilians who have never been anywhere close to A/O and have prostate cancer ... so my question is, how do they know where to draw the line?

[Big Muddy]

Republicans

Jeff Miller (FL), ChairmanJeff Miller (FL), Chairman





Photo of Hon. Doug LambornDoug Lamborn (CO)





Photo of Hon. Gus BilirakisGus M. Bilirakis (FL), Vice Chairman





Photo of Hon. Phil Roe

David P. Roe (TN)





Photo of Hon. Dan Benishek

Dan Benishek (MI)





Photo of Hon. Tim Huelskamp

Tim Huelskamp (KS)





Photo of Hon. Mike CoffmanMike Coffman (CO)





Photo of Rep. Brad WenstrupBrad Wenstrup (OH)





Photo of Rep. Jackie WalorskiJackie Walorski (IN)





Photo of Rep. Ralph AbrahamRalph Abraham (LA)





Photo of Rep. Lee ZeldinLee Zeldin (NY)





Photo of Rep. Ryan CostelloRyan Costello (PA)





Photo of Rep. Amata Coleman RadewagenAmata Radewagen (AS)





Photo of Rep. Mike BostMike Bost (IL)





Democrats

Corrine Brown (FL)

Corrine Brown ( FL)





Mark Takano (CA)

Mark Takano (CA)





Julia Brownley (CA)

Julia Brownley (CA)





Dina Titus (NV)

Dina Titus (NV)





Raul Ruiz (CA)

Raul Ruiz (CA)





Ann McLane Kuster (NH)

Ann McLane Kuster (NH)





Beto O'Rourke (TX)

Beto O'Rourke (TX)





Kathleen Rice (NY)

Kathleen Rice (NY)





Jerry McNerney (CA)





Tim Walz (MN)

[No-till Boss]

It was used on millions of acres of rice. it was 45 years ago, get over ....

[BarryBobPosthole]

Get over it? You ever had a friend die of cancer from it? Maybe then you can tell me to friggin get over it.

Thumper, I think the thing that's disturbing about this is the timing and giving the head of the VA the power to decide if the VA is going to pay disability for A/O related illness shouild more connections be found. The timing part is they are about to make more connections with A/O and chronic illnesses. And that looks very much like they're trying to avoid paying more money out because of it.

BKB

[Thumper]

... it was 45 years ago, get over ....

I assume you dropped a word and that was supposed to say, "get over it".

Tell that to my buddy's wife and kids who watched him slowly die from a bazillion different forms of cancer while in his late 40's. HE knew where all those cancers came from, the VA denied exposure ... until a few years after his death that is. I lost track of the wife. I have no idea if she ever received any sort of compensation or not. I think bathing in and drinking that stuff on a daily basis for years is probably a bit more hazardous than weed control on a rice crop .. not that ANY exposure is a good thing.

[Thumper]

Sorry P-hole, I guess I was thinking of kicking No-Till in the nut-sack while you were typing. Agreed. It's closely related to the b/s I was going through 15 or more years ago. A portion of my visits to beautiful S.E. Asia was dedicated to A/O related crap. When I was officially told I was never exposed, I began a one-man fact-finding mission. The buddy I mentioned above was one of four people who disposed of all those kids killed during "Operation Baby Lift", so I KNEW him. I knew his history, he knew his history and we BOTH knew the government was lying through their teeth. I hoped to prove them wrong before he passed away ... but I failed.

[Big Muddy]

It was used on millions of acres of rice. it was 45 years ago, get over ....

NoTill, that's a bit too strong response....hafta go with Phole and Thump on this one....you evidently, have not seen the pics of Thumper's scars and wounds, and the hell he has indured, as a result of A/O exposure.

Agent Orange is a different formulation, from the old 2,4,5-T that you and I used on rice fields, years ago....and, it was contaminated, as well.



Read this:

"""Agent Orange was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped barrels in which it was shipped, and was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides". The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was contaminated with 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD), an extremely toxic dioxin compound. In some areas, TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered safe by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. """

[Thumper]

... you evidently, have not seen the pics of Thumper's scars and wounds, and the hell he has indured, as a result of A/O exposure.

Well, that may not be spot on ... actually, as the docs were trying to figure out why I was having so many problems, one of them suggested A/O exposure and quoted similar cases. That's when they started running tests and it turned out to be a "suspicion" ... but like most cases, there was no way to actually prove it. BUT ... shortly after that is when they sent me in to go through the process to be included on the registry. I guess I'm some sort of case study.

I mean, look at my avatar ... obvious A/O exposure ... I used to be pretty danged handsome! ;)

[airbud7]

I mean, look at my avatar ... obvious A/O exposure ... I used to be pretty danged handsome! ;)


hahaha^ at least you got a smile on your face

[Thumper]

hahaha^ at least you got a smile on your face

Ha! Face??? That's my ass! ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I think that's a grimace, Airbud.

BKB

[Thumper]

I'm tryin' to fart.

[airbud7]

http://www.fart-sounds.net/fart_sound_board.htm

[Big Muddy]

Okay, Thump, I may have been a bit melodramatic about your case, but there's tons of cases that have been verified, but you are on the registry.
Your's may never be verified, but we all know what the h3ll caused your problem.

[DeputyDog]

I'm tryin' to fart.

...without shitting his pants.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not sure the guy in that picture is wearing pants, DD.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I'm not sure the guy in that picture is wearing pants, DD.

BKB

I thought we were talking about the real Kribbs.

[No-till Boss]

Keep in mind I came from one of the largest fertilizer and chemical dealers in my State. I sold, handle and used more of that stuff and you can imagine.

[Big Muddy]

Notill, I day'um near bathed and washed in "T", for many years as well....however, the stuff you and I handled was not the contaminated formulation.

[No-till Boss]

Notill, I day'um near bathed and washed in "T", for many years as well....however, the stuff you and I handled was not the contaminated formulation.
Yes it was too..... trust me.

[Big Muddy]

You had a single formulation of 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid, also known as 2,4,5-T, or simply "T".

The 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD-Dioxin)was added to the "T", by the govt., in a dual formulation.

[No-till Boss]

Agent Orange was 50/50 245T and 24D. There was several companies that made the formulations, I'm sure they're not all exact but they were very close. We had several that worked for us that were over there, they saw it, it was the same shit we were using when they left, and when they got back. Some of them have worked in the business 45 plus years now.

Now you can read anything, and you can even convince yourself of anything, but it was the same general product .

[Big Muddy]

Well, you know what they say about opinions and azzholes. ;)

[No-till Boss]

Come by here sometime and we'll have coffee with them and you can asked them yourself . One was a sniper and the other was a dog handler, but they're gonna tell you, that one's who smoked dope and fucked those whores are the one's that came back fucked up.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Come by here sometime and we'll have coffee with them and you can asked them yourself . One was a sniper and the other was a dog handler, but they're gonna tell you, that one's who smoked dope and fucked those whores are the one's that came back fucked up.

That's probably the dumbest, and most asinine reason I've ever heard to explain the cancer rates among Viet Nam veterans. You're welcome, of course, to your opinions. That don't make 'em special.

SMFH

BKB

[No-till Boss]

That's probably the dumbest, and most asinine reason I've ever heard to explain the cancer rates among Viet Nam veterans. You're welcome, of course, to your opinions. That don't make 'em special.

SMFH

BKB

Yeah, and I don't take advice from old hippies either .

[Thumper]

Come by here sometime and we'll have coffee with them and you can asked them yourself . One was a sniper and the other was a dog handler, but they're gonna tell you, that one's who smoked dope and fucked those whores are the one's that came back fucked up.


Yeah, and I don't take advice from old hippies either.


No-Till .. I'm sure if we ever met in person, we'd most likely get along just fine and probably even have a good time. (I think) But, over the Internet, it's sometimes really hard to get a grasp on what makes some people tick. I have a bit of that problem with you. Over the past few weeks I think I'm beginning to understand why there was friction at the site you and Bucky used to hang out at. I've seen you get pretty strong headed and maybe even a bit arrogant in a few threads and I've begun to see a pattern. I can't really recall the previous threads right now, but I simply thought maybe my imagination was getting the best of me. Now that I think about it, the GMO thread comes to mind. Even though I pretty much agreed with you on a lot of the basics, your general approach just seemed to rub me the wrong way. Much like this thread ... I can say I've been there, done that and have lost close friends due to A/O. The real torture is, I have to constantly wonder if I'm not a ticking time-bomb myself ... always wondering if and/or when.

I have an EXTREMELY close, long-time buddy who's an ex-Navy SEAL sniper (better known as "the elite among the elite"). When I say close, I mean I'd throw myself in front of a train for him if need be. There's one particular day I will remember as long as I live ... that's the day he told me I'm one of the best wingmen he's ever had. I mentioned my buddy's cancer in an earlier post, but I'll have him bring along the LONG list of A/O related ailments (which I have not mentioned) that he's been living with and is presently fighting ... not to mention his extreme case of PTSD (but I'm sure the PTSD is also just from fucking whores 'cause he's never smoked dope in his life). I'd love for the four of us to get together for a little sit-down session to listen to what your sniper buddy has to say while looking this guy straight in the eye. Heck, consider that an official dare.

[No-till Boss]

Thump you've been everywhere and done everything and you know even more than that. And everyone excepts that whether its true or not, and most seems to believe you. Now, the two things you mentioned about me, just happen to be my fields of expertise, yet I get absolutely no respect ......which is some interesting, and even more interesting that you think I am completely wrong every time......

Since I don't really fit in here, I'll just ride on off now............happy trails ! Feel free to delete my account .

[Thumper]

Thump you've been everywhere and done everything and you know even more than that. And everyone excepts that whether its true or not, and most seems to believe you. Now, the two things you mentioned about me, just happen to be my fields of expertise, yet I get absolutely no respect ......which is some interesting, and even more interesting that you think I am completely wrong every time......

Since I don't really fit in here, I'll just ride on off now............happy trails ! Feel free to delete my account .

NTB ... I believe I said, even when I agree with you and respect your knowledge and expertise on some subjects, it's your DELIVERY I have an issue with. Here's the direct quote from above:


Even though I pretty much agreed with you on a lot of the basics, your general approach just seemed to rub me the wrong way.


I had a LONG response here, but thought better of it and just finished deleting it. I'm loading the car up right now for a little mini-vacation and really don't want to spoil the mood with petty Internet jousting. Your account won't be "deleted". Although I didn't do the deed personally, that's only happened twice in the history of this site (and one of those was my own brother who has severe mental problems). You're welcomed here, but if you can't handle someone disagreeing with you on some issues, I don't know of ANYPLACE on Al Gore's Internet where 100% of your opinions will be accepted as fact. You sometimes remind me of Donald Trump ... he's extremely successful and I try to take him seriously. In fact I try really hard to like him, as he sometimes has interesting views ... but then again, there are times when he opens his mouth, all I can do is shake my head and think, "Did he REALLY just say that?" Like you, he doesn't play well with those who question him.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Long response? Thumper? Never in a million years...

BKB

[Captain]

Long response? Thumper? Never in a million years... BKB
Yea, hard to believe ain't it. And THAT was his short response! :D

[Arty]

Yea, hard to believe ain't it. And THAT was his short response! :D

I was thinkin the same damn thing!

[Big Muddy]

Ya know what, many years ago, I learned a very valuable lesson from one of my best fishing buddies, which has stuck with me ever since....we were crappie fishing a patch of sheeity ironwood bushes in shallow water, during the spawn, and we both were hauling in slabs, but were getting hung up, constantly.
After a while, he seemed to be getting hung up lots more than me, and I made a snide remark about it to him....he responded, by telling me that he didn't mind being corrected, but it was the "tone" of my speech, which he found offensive....he went on to say that I had a bad habit of doing that, when talking and/or dealing with people....he is a great guy, and I took it to heart.
Ever since then, I have tried to be more conscious of the "tone" of my speech, when dealing with people, whether in person, on the phone, or on the web....just saying.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Lord knows I'm guilty of it sometimes myself. I do it often enough I guess I feel guilty even when
i'm innocent!

Like Thumper said, sometimes online you can't tell if somebody's being shitty or not. And then, there's times there no doubt. But that door is always open just a crack. So who's to say?
BKB

[Buckrub]

Sometimes it's clear.

My FIL died of something after farming all his life. One of y'all probably know what.