Fear

[BarryBobPosthole]

The Republican Fear Machine is in full bloom today. That's the saddest, most vile bullshit about our political process that I can't stand. And most of it is coming from our Congress, who actually hasn't done ONE FUCKING THING but all the sudden are having spasms over our safety and security. If they want 'boots on the ground' then fucking declare war, assholes. Or pass a resolution, or pass legislation about the Syrian refugees.

I suppose its much easier to hide and snipe than actually govern.

BKB

[Thumper]

Amen!

[Hombre]

So where do you stand on opening our borders to Syrian refugees? See I tend to agree with you on "I suppose its much easier to hide and snipe than govern". Heck, Obama's made a career out of it. I'll tell you where I stand. I personally don't want anyone opening the border until we agree on the vetting program. Obama or any of the administration hasn't come out and told us what this process is. For me it is the same reason I don't pick up hitch hikers. Sure 95% are probably really good people down on their luck, but I'm not putting me and my family in danger for the 5% chance that they might flip out.

[LJ3]

I agree that fear merchants are total douchecicles. But there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a little afraid of what may be coming our way in the form of terrorist attacks. It's a very real threat and quite likely that it will happen.

If Obama was an actual leader, he would present the vetting process to us so we can all understand it.

I'm still on the fence about it. I've researched the refugee situation quite a bit. You have families fleeing true terror and death with nothing but the clothes on their backs walking across countries and risking their lives to escape. That's a horrible situation. From what I've seen (and the reports vary wildly) there's enough young men, by themselves, with these groups that could actually be part of a terrorist organization. It's not fear mongering. It's a very real risk.

Maybe a short term solution until we figure out how to handle it would be accepting wimmin and children right now. I know their culture is not my culture but if I could get my family safer while I was held back, I'd take that in a second.

[BarryBobPosthole]

A little perspective: This happened FRIDAY. Its now Wednesday and you're wondering why the President, who is abroad at a summit meeting, hasn't released in detail to the public what the vetting processes are for admitting refugees to the United States. And 29 republican governors claim to be ignorant of that process as well. Even though we've processed refugees routinely since 9/11, these governors and our lovable congress claims to not know the process and needs it explained to them. It needs to be explained to them, not so they know what it is, but so they can sit and snipe like they're doing now.
The president's Chief of Staff did provide a briefing to the governors yesterday to explain the process of how they're vetted.

This is mindful of the ebola 'crisis', when the same set of characters insisted, in direct conflict with what the medical scientists were saying, that we prevent anyone from Africa to travel to the US. Its common sense they said. We now know what dumb fucks they were, although we hear little about it afterward.

This is a bunch of people trying to stir up their political base and sticking it in Obama's eye, no matter how vile it is. Fox had a giy on yesterday who kept referring to 'the upcoming attacks on the United States', and actually blamed Obama for the Paris attacks. That is the lowest of the low.

BKB

[Big Skyz]

My feelings on the refugees given today's world....can you tell which one will strike? Me neither and neither can you.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/50/138090541_9a2aececb7_z.jpg

[BarryBobPosthole]

And this is the way I see the Syrian refugees.

BKB

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[Big Skyz]

Whether he would have grown up to be a snake or a contribution to society we will never be know. One thing is for sure though, the U.S. IS NOT responsible for every country in the world and their self created problems, that includes Syria. Seriously why do people think we need to solve all the worlds problems when we have our own share of homeless children, ignored vets, and bulging prisons. I'm not callus but I'd sure like to see the US clean its own closet before trying to clean up the skeleton's in some other country.

[LJ3]

Stick it in Obamas eye? Obama had enough time to mock those who disagree with them but characterizing them as being afraid of women and orphans and hours later a female terrorist detonated her bomb with Parisian law enforcement around her. He pokes himself in the eye every time he opens his mouth on this issue.

It's not black and white dude.

Comparing this to Ebola is intellectual bullshit and you're way smarter than that.

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[Captain]

Shut it down. Obummer has hidden his agenda every since he's been in office. Isis says they will slip in member through the refugee process and DID in France. So if you take em in you are just stupid.
One stupid move to bring them here. In the past AND present.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend any Christian sensibilities. After all, we know how Jesus felt about serpents.

BKB

[LJ3]

I apologize for my shot at you for the intellectual bullshit. I don't think they are comparable, though. I'll go ahead and penalize myself for that one.

This issue has me completely wrapped around the axle. I'm honestly not able to process information on this topic like I normally do to form an opinion. I want to be loving and hard at the same time.

[FooBang]

It's a sticky situation all around. However, we can look back in history and see that the same concerns were applied in the past without realization of those fears. The same things were said about the Vietnamese refugees, for one. They seem to have assimilated fairly well.

[Captain]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend any Christian sensibilities. After all, we know how Jesus felt about serpents. BKB

No problem here. We just see it different. You are welcome to adopt any of them you want too. I don't have a problem with that. But I choose not to. If you have a problem with that I can't help ya'

[BarryBobPosthole]

The part that is the same is the fear machine ginning up fears that Obama was going to make us all unsafe by letting ebola patients be treated in the US. It was the same people ginning up that fear as last time.

I don't care for Obama's presidency either. But I damn sure will support our national leaders when we're at war against enemies that would have our ass. And if I dare hope or pray for anything, I will hope for his and the rest of our leader's success, not their failure. This cynicism and hate and discontent is a national disgrace. Its even made us forget our humanity. And we couldn't rally around anything.

[Captain]

So to explain away caution is now fear mongering? Got it.
But it's only so when Republicans do it. Not went a democrat president put all American Japanese in prison camps. Jus checking.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There's not a thing wrong with caution. This isn't caution.

And since you brought it up, the japanese internment camps were one of the most terrible thngs we've done in this country. And we did it out of fear. Assholery isn't monopolized by either party.

I think maybe we should learn from our mistakes instead of repeating them.
BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

BS, generally I agree that we are not responsible for every country in the world. However, what's happening in Syria today can't be separated from our actions over the past couple of years. The bottom line is we fomented a rebellion against Assad without having a clear idea of what would happen if we were successful. Then, we didn't even have the balls to see it through. The result is a vacuum that these ISIS/ISOL bastards are attempting to exploit and these refugees are trying to escape. We can cry all we want about the innocent lives lost in Paris, but ISIS has killed way more Muslims (by a factor of thousands) than they have Christians.


Whether he would have grown up to be a snake or a contribution to society we will never be know. One thing is for sure though, the U.S. IS NOT responsible for every country in the world and their self created problems, that includes Syria. Seriously why do people think we need to solve all the worlds problems when we have our own share of homeless children, ignored vets, and bulging prisons. I'm not callus but I'd sure like to see the US clean its own closet before trying to clean up the skeleton's in some other country.

[LJ3]

They only killed more muslims because that's who was easily accessible to them.

But.. I agree. as a country, we're not very good at understanding the vacuums we create after we do 'something". If you look back historically we've sucked at it for a very long time and this problem knows no political boundary.

[Big Skyz]

I would like to see us pull completely out of the middle east. There is ALWAYS a conflict or crisis over there. It's been that way for thousands of years. I would like to see us use our own resources and never depend on the middle east for anything. I know it's a pipe dream, but I'd still like to see it.

[Chicken Dinner]

The real issue is that the total number of Syrian refugees vastly exceeds the number who will be accepted in to safe countries, including the U.S. And, a thorough screening must be completed before entering the U.S. Given the chaos in Syria, the screening assessments will be very difficult to complete. Accordingly, the immediate and important issue is adequate assistance to the entire refugee population, where they are. Many lack adequate shelter and clothes for the winter. Many lack sufficient food. Many lack needed medical, psychiatric and dental care. Many children lack schools, teachers and books. Many adults lack work and education and training for future jobs. They need all this now, where they are. The U.S. has the capability to lead an aircraft fleet with the must immediately needed supplies. We should do so. And with our allies, follow up with ships and trucks to meet the other needs.

The rest of this is just noise on both sides. Obama knows he's caused this freakin' mess an needs the US to take some responsibility for cleaning it up and the Republicans are just fear mongering for political gain.

[BarryBobPosthole]

How do you figure he caused this mess? i suppose invading Iraq had nothing at all to do with it. Which was caused by republican fear mongering if you'll recall. You forget about the 'imminent threat to the United States' as an excuse to invade Iraq?

BKB

[Captain]

How do you figure he caused this mess? i suppose invading Iraq had nothing at all to do with it. Which was caused by republican fear mongering if you'll recall. You forget about the 'imminent threat to the United States' as an excuse to invade Iraq? BKB
Because dill-domma pulled us out before the job was done. And on that note
You keep referring to it as Bush's war or republican war? Where were you when every democrats (which at the time held congress and could have stopped it all)
Voted to go to war????
And now ass-hat goes into office with a pledge to end the war and pull out troops. We are now seeing the results of his crap. And I noted above you said we are at war? Really. Dingdong ain't declared war. In fact he want. So if he don't declare war and you say we are at war how do you want it. ????

[Captain]

You said above "this is not caution".
It must be nice to be so smart that you can know this.
You mean to tell me out of all the governors and congress folks that are speaking out about suspending the program you don't think ANY of them have a sincerely held concern, it's just all positioning. WOW
Maybe you should make yourself available to them all and let them know what is OK to worry about and what is not.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Which of these is true? Yes, there was majority support for going to war. But based on what? Its okay to lie I guess as long as you can point at the people you decieved and say "Well, you supported it". That's so thin its like butt piss.

And since your memory is about as long as your peter, the duly elected Parliament and president of Iraq demanded that we leave in 2011. What were we to do, bomb the fuck out of them too? How many trillions of dollars and American lives did you want us to spend to further a lie?

“There’s no question that Iraq was a threat to the people of the United States.”
• White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan, 8/26/03
“We ended the threat from Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction.”
• President Bush, 7/17/03
Iraq was “the most dangerous threat of our time.”
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 7/17/03
“Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States because we removed him, but he was a threat…He was a threat. He’s not a threat now.”
• President Bush, 7/2/03
“Absolutely.”
• White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an “imminent threat,” 5/7/03
“We gave our word that the threat from Iraq would be ended.”
• President Bush 4/24/03
“The threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction will be removed.”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 3/25/03
“It is only a matter of time before the Iraqi regime is destroyed and its threat to the region and the world is ended.”
• Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, 3/22/03
“The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.”
• President Bush, 3/19/03
“The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations.”
• President Bush, 3/16/03
“This is about imminent threat.”
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03
Iraq is “a serious threat to our country, to our friends and to our allies.”
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/31/03
Iraq poses “terrible threats to the civilized world.”
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/30/03
Iraq “threatens the United States of America.”
• Vice President Cheney, 1/30/03
“Iraq poses a serious and mounting threat to our country. His regime has the design for a nuclear weapon, was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/29/03
“Well, of course he is.”
• White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett responding to the question “is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home?”, 1/26/03
“Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons. Iraq poses a threat to the security of our people and to the stability of the world that is distinct from any other. It’s a danger to its neighbors, to the United States, to the Middle East and to the international peace and stability. It’s a danger we cannot ignore. Iraq and North Korea are both repressive dictatorships to be sure and both pose threats. But Iraq is unique. In both word and deed, Iraq has demonstrated that it is seeking the means to strike the United States and our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction.”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/20/03
“The Iraqi regime is a threat to any American. … Iraq is a threat, a real threat.”
• President Bush, 1/3/03
“The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands.”
• President Bush, 11/23/02
“I would look you in the eye and I would say, go back before September 11 and ask yourself this question: Was the attack that took place on September 11 an imminent threat the month before or two months before or three months before or six months before? When did the attack on September 11 become an imminent threat? Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years or a week or a month…So the question is, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 11/14/02
“Saddam Hussein is a threat to America.”
• President Bush, 11/3/02
“I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq.”
• President Bush, 11/1/02
“There is real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to American in Iraq in the form of Saddam Hussein.”
• President Bush, 10/28/02
“The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace.”
• President Bush, 10/16/02
“There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists.”
• President Bush, 10/7/02
“The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency.”
• President Bush, 10/2/02
“There’s a grave threat in Iraq. There just is.”
• President Bush, 10/2/02
“This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined.”
• President Bush, 9/26/02
“No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/19/02
“Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent – that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons.”
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02
“Iraq is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue an aggressive nuclear weapons program. These are offensive weapons for the purpose of inflicting death on a massive scale, developed so that Saddam Hussein can hold the threat over the head of any one he chooses. What we must not do in the face of this mortal threat is to give in to wishful thinking or to willful blindness.”
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 8/29/02

[Captain]

So what I'm reading (and what you have said in the past) is that Bush deceived and lied and persuaded all them poor Democrats to get them to vote to go to war?
Y'all must have elected some God damn dumb ass democrats then, cause all I've heard out of you for years was how stupid Bush was.
So I will take that either Bush was a smart mastermind or Democrats elect dumbass people. (I think I know which one) :D

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm not excusing Bush at all. I've held him directly responsible for the mess in Iraq all along. I said at the time this idea of nation building in the middle east was a fool's errand. So, quit trying to change the subject. But, Mr. Obama and his policies regarding the "Arab Spring" are directly responsible for the immediate crisis of these refugees. Bush has enough to answer for without being blamed for stuff that happened 6 years after he left office.



How do you figure he caused this mess? i suppose invading Iraq had nothing at all to do with it. Which was caused by republican fear mongering if you'll recall. You forget about the 'imminent threat to the United States' as an excuse to invade Iraq?

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yes, I thought Bush was a dumbass. But you know, at least I had the balls to support our commander in chief and president when we went to war. I also said as much on this site several times. One of the lessons we apparently never learned from Viet Nam is that when we face an enemy and we don't do it with all our arms linked together we lose.
So keep it up. I'm sure ISIS loves to see that we value our politics over the lives of our deployed forces. And I'm sure that the 11 million homeless Syrians won't be a fertile ground for the next terrorist organization to spring up. It'll make it much easier for them to recruit here too. Keep on hating! And praise Jesus! Then we won't have to worry about ISIS coming here as refugees. They'll be able to find all they need without infiltrating anyone at all.

BKB

[Captain]

To see the last war US fought where everyone was linked arm in arm you would have to go back to WW2. Oh but wait the Democrats put 120,000 American-Japanese in prison during that war in our own country. So I guess even then we were not all arm and arm. Hum.... Maybe WW1???

[Chicken Dinner]

Barry, you're just arguing with yourself to be ornery at this point. At no point in this thread have I said we shouldn't help the refugees. In fact, I've advocated just the opposite and called both sides out for being disingenuous. The bottoms line is you have to clean up your messes. We, all of us as US citizens, contributed to this disaster and we need to do our part to clean it up.

[BarryBobPosthole]

My last reply was to the Captain, CD.

I agree with you we need to clean up our mess. And in the name of doing that, lets not make it worse. There's 11 million homeless Syrians. That's a huge humanitarian crisis in its own right. Its biblical. And its exactly the kind of environment that the next ISIS will spawn from.

Our president has a plan. Its not been a secret. I back him and I hope his plan does clean up our mess, for what little we had to do with it, without making things worse there.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

They also denied entry into the US thousands of Jewish refugees. (Not that two wrongs make a right.)


To see the last war US fought where everyone was linked arm in arm you would have to go back to WW2. Oh but wait the Democrats put 120,000 American-Japanese in prison during that war in our own country. So I guess even then we were not all arm and arm. Hum.... Maybe WW1???

[Captain]

They also denied entry into the US thousands of Jewish refugees. (Not that two wrongs make a right.)

Those damn insensitive Democrats. I'm sure they were not fear mongering. Only Republican do that!

[BarryBobPosthole]

It wasn't just Democrats. A poll at the time indicated something like 2/3s of all Americans were opposed to allowing
jewish refugees from the Nazi regime into the country. And that was just as disgraceful then as this Syrian deal is now.

We've wore this plum out. I'm tard.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

Those damn insensitive Democrats. I'm sure they were not fear mongering. Only Republican do that!

Just sheeit-disturbing. ;););)

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[Thumper]

When a massive amount of refugees start rushing to our shores, I always get a bit nervous. There's just no way to know who is being admitted into the general population. Heck, you don't have to go back very far in history to see the possibilities. Thanks to Jimmy Carter ... we opened the doors wide open back in the 70's and 80's and 125,000 Cubans rushed into Florida before we could slam the door. There was no way to check them out, but when the crime rate exploded, we took a bit of a closer look. Ha! Castro ain't no idiot ... he opened all his jails, prisons and mental health facilities, stuck 'em on boats and shoved 'em off to Florida. Guess who paid and is STILL paying for that fiasco? Just study up on the Mariel boatlift if you want to learn anything from history.

When it comes to fighting the bastards over there, as mentioned earlier here, we SHOULD have learned from Vietnam that wars need to be managed by the military, not a group of yahoos in a Washington office. We seem to forget what works and what doesn't. In our wars AND our immigration policies.

[Captain]

War??? What WAR? Dingdong says we ain't in no war. He say he's stops wars and will not enter into a war. Why do y'all keep saying we are at war????

[airbud7]

I gotta go with skyz idea...


I would like to see us pull completely out of the middle east. There is ALWAYS a conflict or crisis over there. It's been that way for thousands of years. I would like to see us use our own resources and never depend on the middle east for anything. I know it's a pipe dream, but I'd still like to see it.

Yea... pipe dream, but I'd like to see it too.

[airbud7]

Why is the only thing I see on TV is Charlie Sheen Bullshit?.....Liberal Hollywood?

[Thumper]

War??? What WAR? Dingdong says we ain't in no war. He say he's stops wars and will not enter into a war. Why do y'all keep saying we are at war????

Word games ... heck, even Vietnam wasn't a war ... it was a "conflict". (OR ... as Congress liked to call it ... a "police action")

FYI ... the US hasn't declared war since WWII ... but we sure have dropped a bunch'a bombs and shot up a lot of ammo since then ... AND lost a lot of good men.

[Trav]

The part that is the same is the fear machine ginning up fears that Obama was going to make us all unsafe by letting ebola patients be treated in the US. It was the same people ginning up that fear as last time.

I don't care for Obama's presidency either. But ]I damn sure will support our national leaders when we're at war against enemies that would have our ass[/B]. And if I dare hope or pray for anything, I will hope for his and the rest of our leader's success, not their failure. This cynicism and hate and discontent is a national disgrace. Its even made us forget our humanity. And we couldn't rally around anything.

Oh yeah, this is exactly how I remember you acting when Bush was president, your unwavering support was admirable. I call bullshit on that.

[Thumper]

Hey P-hole ... don't look now, but I think you've been called out! ;)

[Captain]

Oh yeah, this is exactly how I remember you acting when Bush was president, your unwavering support was admirable. I call bullshit on that.

Hahaahahahahhaha that's the same recollection I have to Trav! :D


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