And Another Weird Fish

[BarryBobPosthole]

As the resident leftist foodie, I totally think they're going to fuck up these species of salmonids along with the habitat that goes with it.

The question is not really whether this particular fish is good or bad though, but how or if we should even, produce more protein from the world's fisheries. If the world population grows, we must. To what lengths are we willing to go to do it? What we willing to spend? And surely we have to know the population growth can't go on forever. Where's the line?

When we answer those questions, maybe we can talk about these ones.

BKB

http://thehill.com/opinion/op-ed/262561-fda-wrong-on-frankenfish

[LJ3]

The article doesn't say if these would be released to the wild or commercially farmed? The latter shouldn't be a problem as long as people are able to know what they're eating.

The article also sounds like it was written by the Pac-Northwest Salmon industry.

[Captain]

You know that just sorta don't pass the smell test does it? Not sure how I would fall on this issue without a lot more info. I mean if they start modifying wild turkeys I'ah raise hell. :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

I heard a Diane Rheem Show devoted to this topic the other day and there was some interesting stuff. She had one guest who was a consultant for the company who pioneered this technology (the technology itself is very old) and the other was the head of a group that opposed the approval of it. They brought up another GE fish, a carp from asia that accidently got introduced and has spread all the way from the Mississippi River to the Great Lakes. They are supposedly hybrid and sterile.
These are supposed to be sterile and unable to survive in the wild as well.

The question never answered is how in the hell we're supposed to feed the planet if we don't do stuff like this.

Another question not answered is what the GE does to the nutritional value of the salmon, of main concern was omega three fatty acid levels. They are, of course much lower in pen raised animals because their diet is soy and corn instead of wild fish. That makes the labeling question much more relevant.

The whole thing is fishy, Larke!

BKB

[Captain]

And here I thought I was the only person here that listens to Diana Rheems on NPR?
Learn something new every day. :D
I guess without knowing the long term effects of GE or GMO's in general we are all just test subjects.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I like the hell out of her. She seems to always show boths sides of ehatever she's talking about.

BKB

[airbud7]

Dinosaurs lived for a duration of 165 million years....the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago...

Dinosaurs simply eat/depleted the planet of all resources.

Same will happen with all species.....you and me to.

[Captain]

I like the hell out of her. She seems to always show boths sides of ehatever she's talking about. BKB

Yep, and I try not to miss Garrison Keillor's Prairie Home Companion too! Sometimes it's a hoot. They made a movie about it several years ago.

[Captain]

AirBud, are you trying to say people evolved???

[airbud7]

AirBud, are you trying to say people evolved???


What say you?

[Captain]

I say I was just kicking the pile. :D
It's what I do....

[airbud7]

Love you Cappy...lets not go there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4fQitwpNLQ

[Captain]

Sammy Kershaw is 'da bomb!
I can argue either side of the issue, depends on which side needs stirin' :D
But for the record I am Christian and do believe in the creation.

[airbud7]

Southern baptist here Cappy...still not sure bout all that stuff though?,,,questions of my own just make me that way?....love everyone though.

[Captain]

Southern baptist here Cappy...still not sure bout all that stuff though?,,,questions of my own just make me that way?....love everyone though.

I've had (probably) the same questions since I was old enough to have thoughts on the matter. But I just accept and believe.
One thought that ALWAYS goes through my mind when someone close to me dies is "I guess they got all the answers to all the questions". Someday I will too. But I ain't in no hurry for the answers. :D

[Nandy]

It took nature a few millions of years to develop the species that we have still alive today, some more, some less. Modern human developed about 100 thousand years ago, by trial and error we learned what we could eat or not. Human breeds a new species maybe 10 years ago and they want me to be a guinea pig for them? heck no..... I am not one to stop progress but give me an option to stay out, if not I guess I would eat salmon no more... AND anything else that is labeled as such...

[Thumper]

I agree with Postie that the major question is how we feed the world if we don't speed things along? The way I look at it, unless you're a farmer who grows your own food (meat AND veggies) and use no weed/pest killers and no antibiotics, etc etc etc ... we're basically eating "altered" products anydamnway. Heck aren't we altering OURSELVES, in a way, when we inoculate ourselves against disease? It may not be genetic engineering per se', but where do you want to draw the line? We have a major citrus industry down here. Through messing around with the originals, we have bigger, juicier, sweeter, more disease/freeze resistant oranges. I like 'em. If you don't ... try eating an orange that grew up from root stock.

Personally, I see no problem with it and think it's a necessary part of our future. I really do feel that we can actually make many things much better by altering what nature provides. I can also see how this discussion could probably go on forever and people would be on both sides of the issue.

[airbud7]

Wow Thump^...Thanks Man!...I wish I could put things I think into words as good as you...<see that didnt even come out right...help me thump!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I agree with Postie that the major question is how we feed the world if we don't speed things along? The way I look at it, unless you're a farmer who grows your own food (meat AND veggies) and use no weed/pest killers and no antibiotics, etc etc etc ... we're basically eating "altered" products anydamnway. Heck aren't we altering OURSELVES, in a way, when we inoculate ourselves against disease? It may not be genetic engineering per se', but where do you want to draw the line? We have a major citrus industry down here. Through messing around with the originals, we have bigger, juicier, sweeter, more disease/freeze resistant oranges. I like 'em. If you don't ... try eating an orange that grew up from root stock.

Personally, I see no problem with it and think it's a necessary part of our future. I really do feel that we can actually make many things much better by altering what nature provides. I can also see how this discussion could probably go on forever and people would be on both sides of the issue.

The only thing I don't agree with is the thought that altered is always better. We have fucked up far more than we ever improved when it comes to other species. And thats my biggest fear with this.

That and the question you raised about where is the damned line?

BKB

[Captain]

Well just because we can don't mean we should...

[BarryBobPosthole]

That's what my girlfriend used to tell me when we was parked out at the lake with the radio on.

BKB

[quercus alba]

What say you?


I say, I might have had some ancestors hang by their necks but I never had any hang by their tails. I think it natural to have questions, I don't think God wants blind faith but rather wants us to study the evidences He left and draw our own conclusions.

In the words of the rev Billy Ray Collins of the Sword of Joshua independent full -gospel Pentecostal Assembly "This here is the United States of America and you have the right to go to hell any way you choose."

:wave1

[BarryBobPosthole]

Darn tootin'!

BKB

[Thumper]

The only thing I don't agree with is the thought that altered is always better. BKB

I don't actually remember saying it's ALWAYS better, but I do feel as long as the world keeps cranking out babies at the rate it is, SOMETHING is going to have to be done. A few mistakes along the way is inevitable. Heck, how many filaments did ol' Thomas Edison burn up before he ended up with a decent light bulb? Not quite the same, I know, but you get the idea.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Hahahaha, I get it. But we have a lot more filaments to fuck up than we have planets.

BKB

[LJ3]

Seems like it'd be easier to force people to stop breeding so much. 2 kids and auto-sterilization. Problem solved. Or at least slowed to a manageable rate.

If they could genetically engineer a cow that produced wagyu quality beef, you can bet the collective accelerator would be hammered down upon.

[Thumper]

Seems like it'd be easier to force people to stop breeding so much. 2 kids and auto-sterilization. Problem solved. Or at least slowed to a manageable rate.

I believe Communist China already did that. Problem is, they were only allowed 1 child, so if they had a daughter, she'd get fed to the hogs. They only wanted boys so they could work to support the family farm (or whatever).

[BarryBobPosthole]

And as a result, they have more girl babies in orphanges than you can shake a stick at.

BKB

[johnboy]

Finally getting to the nut of the problem - too many people. Over population used to be a big issue years ago but it is no longer a subject for reasoned discussion for some reason. Reduce the human population of Earth by 50 or 75% and most of our issues would go away.

I live just a few miles south of the biggest concentration of salmon 'farms' or feedlots on the NA continent and it is a HUGE issue here. People have been fighting for years to get the feedlots out of the water where they are causing many problems for our wild fish that pass bye, especially the young smolts returning to the sea. Disease, sea lice, toxic chemicals, tons of waste (shit) being produced by the feedlots are killing our young fish, not to mention the strip mining of our oceans for feed for these carnivourous fish. Salmon are piscivorous and do not eat soy or corn derivatives. They eat other fish. Lots to read about if you want to delve into the salmon farming industry (most companies are Norwegian) and the problems they have caused. Look up Chile and salmon farming.

Personally, I would NEVER eat any farmed salmon, never mind a gmo one. Nasty!

[Thumper]

I guess it all boils down to which side your bread is buttered on. The same can be said about corporate dirt farming or beef/pork feedlots. If we're gonna keep makin' babies ... they gots ta' eat. There's no easy answer for any of it. From food to power plants ... I doubt there's ONE person here who'd give up electricity, but the bitchers will bitch. Hydo-electric harms the fish and snail-darters, coal chokes us to death, leaves nasty strip mining run-off and causes "global warming"! Nuclear is going to kill ALL of us with one fell swoop! Same with cars ... we are NOT going to give them up ... but they need oil ... and if we produce our own, it causes earthquakes on P-hole's street. ;)

As I asked in the initial post ... where do you want to draw the line? I'm sure we'd all have different answers.

[airbud7]

well said thump!...

btw...are these gmo?

6260

[Arty]

well said thump!... btw...are these gmo? <img src="http://www.goodhunting.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=6260"/>
No! Those are home grown all natural!

[Thumper]

GMO's??? Giant Mammary Organs?

[Nandy]

I wouldn't touch those either, Im a leg/butt man.....