Executive Action on Gun Control

[Chicken Dinner]

I guess the POTUS is speaking now. I'm not watching and will wait to read about it, but I've been reading up on what he's said he's going to do and just don't get it. Maybe I'm confusing Federal law with Virginia law, but I'm just not sure what "internet" sales will now be subject to background checks that weren't already. I've always understood that interstate transfers already had to have an FFL (who at least in VA) is going to run a background check. Also, an intrastate internet sale would as well if done via a dealer. Are they going to say that every internet sale is a defacto "dealer" now? That'd be interesting to see in practice.

[Thumper]

It's on in the other room, but I'm in my office with the door closed, so I haven't heard a word of it. Like you, I'll probably wait to read the details so I have time to read, re-read if necessary and ponder. I guess I simply have no comment ... YET.

[BarryBobPosthole]

There doesn't seem to be much to it. Beefing up the background check process it sounds like. As usual these days, there's not much detail.

As long as it is adding enforcement to existing laws, I got no issues with it. More laws don't do shit.

BKb

[Thumper]

There doesn't seem to be much to it. Beefing up the background check process it sounds like. As usual these days, there's not much detail.

As long as it is adding enforcement to existing laws, I got no issues with it. More laws don't do shit.

BKb

100% in agreement here. :thumbsup

[airbud7]

I think he also wants to close the gun show loophole...not sure though?

[Chicken Dinner]

Can't argue with that either Posthole. If they want to throw more resources at enforcing existing law and expand reporting of mental illness, etc. No issue with me. I'm just not clear if they're trying to argue that listing one gun you no longer have a need for in the Penny Trader or on a local FB site makes you a dealer. I'd probably have an issue with that. Or what about somebody who takes ill, goes on disability and decides to liquidate most of their fairly substantial collection to make ends meet. Are they a dealer? Does going on a hunting site and offering guns up to folks you've "known" for years make you a dealer? I'll be real curious on those details.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That's the part thats missing right now.

BKB

[airbud7]

Does going on a hunting site and offering guns up to folks you've "known" for years make you a dealer? I'll be real curious on those details.

This^...also...rifle vs pistol?

[Thumper]

Can't argue with that either Posthole. If they want to throw more resources at enforcing existing law and expand reporting of mental illness, etc. No issue with me. I'm just not clear if they're trying to argue that listing one gun you no longer have a need for in the Penny Trader or on a local FB site makes you a dealer. I'd probably have an issue with that. Or what about somebody who takes ill, goes on disability and decides to liquidate most of their fairly substantial collection to make ends meet. Are they a dealer? Does going on a hunting site and offering guns up to folks you've "known" for years make you a dealer? I'll be real curious on those details.

Ha! I just hope they don't try to make it retroactive! ;)

[DeputyDog]

Does anyone know when "executive action" actually started, and who decided it could be done? I know a lot of presidents have used it and this is not intended to be a discussion on the current POTUS' use of it compared to previous Office holders use of it.

I am just wondering to what extent it can be used before it becomes someone deliberately violating the Constitution and basically becoming a monarch. Could someone take it to the extent that they "temporarily" disband Congress by executive action on the grounds that they are ineffective?

[airbud7]

Looks like you have to be "in the business" of selling firearms.

I have no problem with that^.................http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/05/obama-announces-gun-control-actions-expands-background-checks.html?intcmp=hpbt1

[BarryBobPosthole]

Another question is, what about collectors? Are they 'in the business'? One one hand, they aren't selling to the public, but on the other hand, they are trying to make a profit on the guns they buy and sell. Doesn't seem to me to be the folks we'd want to tighten up on.

BKb

[Chicken Dinner]

It's starting to look like a typical political BS:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

Even the NFA stuff is pretty much nonsense as I don't think there's many folks using a trust to circumvent background checks. They're using them to acquire otherwise banned items like full auto, suppressors and sawed off shotguns.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Does anyone know when "executive action" actually started, and who decided it could be done? I know a lot of presidents have used it and this is not intended to be a discussion on the current POTUS' use of it compared to previous Office holders use of it.

I am just wondering to what extent it can be used before it becomes someone deliberately violating the Constitution and basically becoming a monarch. Could someone take it to the extent that they "temporarily" disband Congress by executive action on the grounds that they are ineffective?

Short answer is no. As long as they are within the law, and that gets decided in the courts not the Congress, executive actions are perfectly legal. Disbanding congress might be fun, but I suspect its illegal.

Here's a link to the number of executive actions by presidents. There's been a lot more than one would think.

There's also been a lot of bullshit spewed about them. Mainly from Congress and from presidential candidates.

BKB

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

[Buckrub]

Good grief.

Good night, sheep.

[Buckrub]

President Obama has signed 23 executive orders designed to address the problem of gun violence in America. The following are the items addressed:

Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

#2 says basically "Figure out how to violate HIPAA to enforce gun control."

[Buckrub]

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2016/01/america-doesnt-have-gun-problem-it-has_4.html

[Buckrub]

BTW, there is no "Gunshow Loophole". That 'Loophole' is simply that individuals do not have to follow some federally imposed guideline requiring a background check from every single firearm sale, even by individuals. What Obama and his minions want is to require you, and I, to be subject to background checks by some federal government controlled agency to ensure that we are good enough to buy and sell firearms.

I ask.........define "bear"?
Define "arms"?
Define "shall not be infringed"?

Simply define it. Don't dance around it, just define it. Not what you wish it was, but what the Framers meant by it. What did those mean?

Or do you really want to be a Nation of Laws, or not?

[Buckrub]

#16 gives permission for doctors to try and invade my private life.

#13 is so open ended it is terrifying.

#4 may be the scariest. What catagories do you think they might come up with and then deem dangerous thus preventing gun purchases and/or ownership.

[airbud7]

Any y'all got a good working pump shotgun for sale?....Turkey season coming up/....my 1100 auto is jamming up bad.(long time)

PS: Gave my mossburg to my son a long time ago/he wont give it back neather.

[Buckrub]

They might. But they will soon have to register with BATF to sell it to you.

Good luck.

[Buckrub]

Obama's executive actions are a small but significant tweak to existing laws. In the US, there are several restrictions in federal law to buying a gun. Generally, the idea is that Americans who are underage, have serious criminal backgrounds, or are mentally ill should not be able to purchase a firearm.

Whether someone falls into any of these categories is typically evaluated through a background check: Under the federal system, licensed dealers are required to run these checks before they can sell someone a gun, typically by having the FBI check a person's criminal record, mental health history, and other factors. If someone fails a background check, he or she can't legally buy a gun.

But the system is riddled with loopholes. The most well-known way to bypass background checks is the private sales loophole: If someone purchases a gun from a private seller, such as a friend or family member, no gun background check is required. This is often mischaracterized as the "gun show loophole," under the assumption that people can simply go to a gun show and buy a gun without getting a background check. But licensed dealers at gun shows still have to carry out a background check. The actual loophole is that someone can meet with a private seller at a gun show — or, increasingly, over the internet — and buy a firearm from that person without a background check. In other words, the gun show doesn't create a loophole; the private sale does.

I continue to ask........what does 'bear' mean? What does 'arms' mean? What does 'shall not be infringed' mean?

No one answers.

Safety is not a sufficient reason to eliminate freedom.

[Buckrub]

And here is the Biggest Question:

"Why are we so divided?"


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-2016-candidates-bash-obamas-gun-plan/ar-AAgoDLE?li=BBnb7Kz

Does anyone know?

[Chicken Dinner]

Look, I clearly disagree with the POTUS on this issue. (And, I didn't buy an AR last month in a private sale by accident.). I just don't see where this did much other than re-emphasize current law and throw some money at enforcement and "safety". In answer to your question about what the 2nd Amendment means, I agree with the USSC. They've said it's an individual right, but that it can be subject to "reasonable" restrictions. Of course, what I think is reasonable is probably less than what most folks do and more than what you do.

[LJ3]

All I know is my oldest wants me to take her to the range tomorrow. So... to the range we go!

[Buckrub]

Well then...........good luck to all of you.

[LJ3]

This logic kinda falls down with definitions from dictionary.com. It would appear that the government can't infringe on my sleeves.

bear
verb (used with object), bore or (Archaic) bare; borne or born; bearing.
1.
to hold up; support:
to bear the weight of the roof.
2.
to hold or remain firm under (a load):
The roof will not bear the strain of his weight.
3.
to bring forth (young); give birth to:
to bear a child.
4.
to produce by natural growth:
a tree that bears fruit.
5.
to hold up under; be capable of:
His claim doesn't bear close examination.

arm
noun
1.
the upper limb of the human body, especially the part extending from the shoulder to the wrist.
2.
the upper limb from the shoulder to the elbow.
3.
the forelimb of any vertebrate.
4.
some part of an organism like or likened to an arm.
5.
any armlike part or attachment, as the tone arm of a phonograph.
6.
a covering for the arm, especially a sleeve of a garment:
the arm of a coat.
7.
an administrative or operational branch of an organization:
A special arm of the government will investigate.

infringe
verb (used with object), infringed, infringing.
1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress:
to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.
verb (used without object), infringed, infringing.
2.
to encroach or trespass (usually followed by on or upon):
Don't infringe on his privacy.

[LJ3]

Obama's executive actions are a small but significant tweak to existing laws. In the US, there are several restrictions in federal law to buying a gun. Generally, the idea is that Americans who are underage, have serious criminal backgrounds, or are mentally ill should not be able to purchase a firearm.

Whether someone falls into any of these categories is typically evaluated through a background check: Under the federal system, licensed dealers are required to run these checks before they can sell someone a gun, typically by having the FBI check a person's criminal record, mental health history, and other factors. If someone fails a background check, he or she can't legally buy a gun.

But the system is riddled with loopholes. The most well-known way to bypass background checks is the private sales loophole: If someone purchases a gun from a private seller, such as a friend or family member, no gun background check is required. This is often mischaracterized as the "gun show loophole," under the assumption that people can simply go to a gun show and buy a gun without getting a background check. But licensed dealers at gun shows still have to carry out a background check. The actual loophole is that someone can meet with a private seller at a gun show — or, increasingly, over the internet — and buy a firearm from that person without a background check. In other words, the gun show doesn't create a loophole; the private sale does.

I continue to ask........what does 'bear' mean? What does 'arms' mean? What does 'shall not be infringed' mean?

No one answers.

Safety is not a sufficient reason to eliminate freedom.

I completely agree with your stance on the mythical "loophole". I don't see anything in what Obama is doing to insert the government between private gun sales between citizens. What am I missing?

[Buckrub]

This logic kinda falls down with definitions from dictionary.com. It would appear that the government can't infringe on my sleeves.

bear
verb (used with object), bore or (Archaic) bare; borne or born; bearing.
1.
to hold up; support:
to bear the weight of the roof.
2.
to hold or remain firm under (a load):
The roof will not bear the strain of his weight.
3.
to bring forth (young); give birth to:
to bear a child.
4.
to produce by natural growth:
a tree that bears fruit.
5.
to hold up under; be capable of:
His claim doesn't bear close examination.

arm
noun
1.
the upper limb of the human body, especially the part extending from the shoulder to the wrist.
2.
the upper limb from the shoulder to the elbow.
3.
the forelimb of any vertebrate.
4.
some part of an organism like or likened to an arm.
5.
any armlike part or attachment, as the tone arm of a phonograph.
6.
a covering for the arm, especially a sleeve of a garment:
the arm of a coat.
7.
an administrative or operational branch of an organization:
A special arm of the government will investigate.

infringe
verb (used with object), infringed, infringing.
1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress:
to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.
verb (used without object), infringed, infringing.
2.
to encroach or trespass (usually followed by on or upon):
Don't infringe on his privacy.

Good grief.

Dictionary.com is not using a single usage from the meanings of these words as used by the Framers, except by infringe

Try again. I didn't ask what the current meaning is. I asked what you think the Framers meant by those words.

[Buckrub]

I completely agree with your stance on the mythical "loophole". I don't see anything in what Obama is doing to insert the government between private gun sales between citizens. What am I missing?

If, in those 23 items, you don't see a single thing he is trying to do to insert the US Federal Government between individual gun buyers, I have nothing more to say I guess. As I said, good luck to all.

[Buckrub]

Turns out there were more actions he proposed, just now coming out, that he expects to occur by consensus of all Americans.............

24. Pee down Mt. Vesuvius and put the fire out.

25. Tell global warming Obama said for it to stop.

26. Develop a smart bullet that when fired by a criminal makes a U-turn, comes back and zaps him.

27. Counsel gang members on sportsmanship, fair play, and counting to ten before getting angry.

28. Conduct a study as to why families that have had loved ones shot or murdered want to disarm other families that want to protect their families using guns.

[Captain]

I made a list of every gun I own by serial number and split them up and gave them to my children Sunday. That seemed to be the only thing he was proposing that would effect me. Of course I reserved lifetime right to use them. :-)
He is an idiot of the first order. With the terror and lawlessness the citizen of this country faces now a real leader would be preaching gun ownership responsibility and marksmanship, not trying to make it harder to defend yourself.

[Chicken Dinner]

For you Thomas Sowell fans out there:

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2016/01/06/showmaninchief-n2100374

[Chicken Dinner]

If you can ignore some pretty obviously biased advocacy that's mixed in, this has a start to some actual legal analysis that I've been looking for: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/01/05/obamas-executive-actions-on-guns-legal-analysis/

It also highlights how Bill Clinton's actions in office created a lot of this supposed "dealer" problem.

[HideHunter]

Turns out there were more actions he proposed, just now coming out, that he expects to occur by consensus of all Americans.............

24. Pee down Mt. Vesuvius and put the fire out.

25. Tell global warming Obama said for it to stop.

26. Develop a smart bullet that when fired by a criminal makes a U-turn, comes back and zaps him.

27. Counsel gang members on sportsmanship, fair play, and counting to ten before getting angry.

28. Conduct a study as to why families that have had loved ones shot or murdered want to disarm other families that want to protect their families using guns.


Xellent! love it. ;)

[Buckrub]

I made a list of every gun I own by serial number and split them up and gave them to my children Sunday. That seemed to be the only thing he was proposing that would effect me. Of course I reserved lifetime right to use them. :-)
He is an idiot of the first order. With the terror and lawlessness the citizen of this country faces now a real leader would be preaching gun ownership responsibility and marksmanship, not trying to make it harder to defend yourself.

I gave all my guns to the homeless, long ago. I don't own any guns. But if I did, I'd be hopping mad at King Barry.

Guns, Race, Religion, and Immigration.............no one cares about the Economy anymore!!! :)

[Buckrub]

For you Thomas Sowell fans out there:

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2016/01/06/showmaninchief-n2100374

My absolute favorite American. I have 'voted' for him for POTUS, but then they started using voting machines and you can't write anyone in!!

I have yet to run across a smarter man. Maybe Herb.

P.S.
That article makes a great point too. He really is the Master at spewing B/S. Only Bill Clinton can come close to matching those "pregnant Baptist Preacher pauses" and head turns in their speeches. When I hear either of them, or Hillary either, I can always hear Charles Durning in the back of my head singing "Oooooo, I do a little sidestep".........

[HunterEd]

I have a FFL and have had one for 30 years and I'm beyond confused at the one article I read. The mix mash of horse shit , a thousands words of nothing but spin and lies.


I guess the POTUS is speaking now. I'm not watching and will wait to read about it, but I've been reading up on what he's said he's going to do and just don't get it. Maybe I'm confusing Federal law with Virginia law, but I'm just not sure what "internet" sales will now be subject to background checks that weren't already. I've always understood that interstate transfers already had to have an FFL (who at least in VA) is going to run a background check. Also, an intrastate internet sale would as well if done via a dealer. Are they going to say that every internet sale is a defacto "dealer" now? That'd be interesting to see in practice.

[LJ3]

My absolute favorite American. I have 'voted' for him for POTUS, but then they started using voting machines and you can't write anyone in!!

I have yet to run across a smarter man. Maybe Herb.



I had never heard of him till I met you Bucky. I have to say I'm usually very impressed, one way or the other, by the way he presents his opinions. My only complaint is the length of his articles. Homeslice is like a political commentator version of Jimmy talking about GM dealerships :)

[Buckrub]

Here's a poll from the Communist News Network. STUPID way to phrase the question, very biased and misleading, but still it's 73%.......

http://www.cnn.com/partners/ios/pages/poll/

[Buckrub]

On the guy who shot a Philadelphia officer:

"In no way shape or form does anyone in this room believe that what was done represents Islam," Kenney said. "This was done by a criminal with a stolen gun."

SO............a stolen gun! Wow.

Well, clearly........ I Know how we can stop that kind of stuff. Yessireebob. We can close the "Gun Show Loophole", that's what.

That'll stop this kind of thing. And if it won't, then do NOT ALLOW this incident to be included in the list of terrible things that need stopped by that action.