I wondered when it was coming.

[Thumper]

Looks like the cowboy takeover in Oregon finally got violent. One dead.

[Chicken Dinner]

I hate that someone died. But, this has to end and the fact that these guys thought they could just drive to a nearby town for some sort of meeting is mind boggling.

[airbud7]

Looks like the cowboy takeover in Oregon finally got violent. One dead.

Damn that sux^....I forgot about that stuff/ they been there this whole time?.......

Looking @news now.

[Buckrub]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/report-lavoy-finicum-armed-with-a-handgun-reached-for-his-waistband-just-before-he-was-shot/ar-BBoOkv9?li=BBnb7Kz

He "reached for his waistband".

Wonder how many holes they put in him because he reached for his waistband??

[Chicken Dinner]

Probably enough to make sure they all went home to their families that night. I just don't have much sympathy for a guy who participates in an armed occupation of a federal building and publicly states that he'd rather die than go to jail getting shot for "going for his waist band." Sorry.

[Thumper]

I'm with CD all the way on this. And that's pretty creative editing there Bucky. Here's the way I read that same sentence:

"... reached down toward his waistband, where he kept his Colt .45

I believe when the cops tell you to put your hands up ... that means "UP"!

[Buckrub]

I didn't say I'd invite the guy to supper. I didn't say I condoned his actions.

I am implying that I'd think they are already drawn down on him and might could wait till he actually drew, instead of just starting his hand in that direction.

But that's just me. I realize he's a vicious criminal in y'all's eyes and needs exterminated with extreme prejudice, so............ I guess it's sort of a #Protesterslivesmatter...............

[Thumper]

Yep, GREAT idea ... let him draw first ... THEN shoot him. But, no wait! It's possible he was simply attempting to surrend his gun ... maybe it'd be better to wait until he SHOOTS first ... THEN shoot back!

Are you nuts?

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm really not trying to pick a fight. I'm just saying that, given what I know of the circumstances in their totality, I think it was completely reasonable for them to start shooting as soon as he reached for his waistband regardless of whether they were already drawn on him or not. I just don't think that's a reasonable expectation anyone should expect from an LEO who knows you to be armed and to have said you'd rather die than go to jail. I also don't think he a vicious criminal. I think he was a wanna be cowboy/militia member and it should be a lesson to all the other wannabe's hat LEO's aren't fooling around with their own safety.

[Buckrub]

Yep, GREAT idea ... let him draw first ... THEN shoot him. But, no wait! It's possible he was simply attempting to surrend his gun ... maybe it'd be better to wait until he SHOOTS first ... THEN shoot back!

Are you nuts?

Indications are positive.

[Hombre]

From what very little I know of this story I would side with this being a rationale shooting. As with most the BLM protests I've sided with the LEO and been on the side of "don't act or actually commit crimes" and this wouldn't be an issue. I know its not that simple and some will argue that crime doesn't fit the punishment, but damn when are we actually going to re-institute personal responsibility? Again from what I have heard / seen on the news (and its been very little) the group had taken over a remote spot of land and said repeatedly, while they wanted a peaceful resolution, they were prepared to die and prepared to fight. If I'm a LEO and I've heard that message you better believe I would be hyper sensitive to any movement. At the end of the night I want to go back and see my kids, and wife and I'll error on the side of caution to ensure that happens.

[Buckrub]

It probably was all justified.

[Hombre]

It probably was all justified.

Bucky I find you to be a rationale, wise, and well thought out person...and I agree with you agreeing with me!

[Buckrub]

Then your wisdom is exceeded only by your disagreeable agreements, thereby enacted, and the unexpected public publication of same.

[Buckrub]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjl1hefqqWI&feature=youtu.be

If you want to see it actually happening............here it is. It's at the 5:55 mark of this video. This is what the FBI themselves released.

You decide how he was shot.

[Arty]

Looks to me he came out with his hands up!

Buuuut then he reached, and perhaps even was able to pull the gun.

I'd have shot him too.

[Buckrub]

Me too probably.

IF I was the guy in front of him with full view, not the guy in the back.

But even then it might be all 100% justified. Hard to tell from that height, though.

There's certainly enough there that I have a few questions. It's not 100% cut and dried, IMHO.

[Captain]

Rule number 1. If you don't want to get shot by the police, do what they say and keep your hands up. Reaching for a gun is a good way of getting shot.
Clean shoot.

[BarryBobPosthole]

The guy had a 9mm pistol right where he was reaching. Plus he'd been involved in an armed standoff for almost a month. It doesn't get any more cut and dried than that. What the fuck?

Its also obvious he walked away from the truck to draw fire from the others in the truck. Suicide by cop, plain and simple. And now a bunch of other simpleton idiots will have something to rally about at the next armed standoff.

BKB

[LJ3]

I'd have emptied the clip in his ass. He's absolutely NO different than a ghetto thug rushing an LEO or any other asshole that doesn't obey LEO commands in a potentially lethal situation.

I'm beginning to just dislike people in general. Can any of you 60+ curmudgeons enlighten me? Is this going to get worse?

[Captain]

I'm only 58 so I don't know.

[BarryBobPosthole]

By 60+ curmudgeons do you mean all 60 of us, or do you mean the few of us that are over 60+?

And speak up ya danged whippersnapper!

BKB

[LJ3]

and yes, I'll get off your lawn while I'm at it :)

[Buckrub]

I'd have emptied the clip in his ass. He's absolutely NO different than a ghetto thug rushing an LEO or any other asshole that doesn't obey LEO commands in a potentially lethal situation.

I'm beginning to just dislike people in general. Can any of you 60+ curmudgeons enlighten me? Is this going to get worse?

Am I losing my mind, or did you put this same post in two Threads?

[LJ3]

I did...
we need to kill one of these threads because they're covering the same subject.

Given our propensity to stray off topic, these two threads could cause a total protonic reversal.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jyaLZHiJJnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Buckrub]

Whew.

[quercus alba]

50 foster kids huh? Now I know that state government ain't federal government but he would be milking the state tit pretty heavy.

Sounds like he wanted it both ways.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't care if he was Mother Fucking Theresa. He hadn't oughta gone for a gun while being arrested for an armed takeover of public property.

BKB

[LJ3]

true dat... nizzle.

[BarryBobPosthole]

And its reported he was making about $115k a year from Catholic Charities.

BKB

[Nandy]

Suicide by cop, plain and simple. And now a bunch of other simpleton idiots will have something to rally about at the next armed standoff.

BKB

Yup, guy wanted to be a martyr, him and his 50 kids...