Friggin' clueless!

[Thumper]

I went to an estate sale this morning and there was a group of four, young college freshmen in line right behind me waiting for the sale to start. I assume they are on Easter break. They were all discussing voting for the first time in their lives. Ok, kudos to them for actually caring enough about politics to get out and vote.

BUT ... as the conversation progressed, (yes, I was eavesdropping), all they could talk about was voting for Bernie Sanders and awaiting their possible "free" college tuition. I finally couldn't take it any longer and asked who they thought was going to PAY for "their" education and their answer was, .......... (ready for it?) ...."taxes"!

Huh? WTF??? I swear ... sometimes I just feel like checking out of society and burying my head someplace hoping the world will go away!

[Fido]

what scares me is all the people you see at their rallys. are there that many people misinformed?

[Chicken Dinner]

TBH, the numbers may not be quite as big but folks on the left are rejecting the traditional party candidates and going for Bernie just like those on the right are going Trump. They're fed up and it doesn't really matter who it is as long as it's an outsider.

[Thumper]

Maybe so, but their whole conversation centered on "free" college tuition. No other issues were discussed while I was there. Their answer about where the funds would come from sounded like they thought "taxes" simply meant a big vault full of free cash. That's just stupid.

[Chicken Dinner]

Kind of like building a wall will keep all the "Mexicans" out...

[Thumper]

Kind of like building a wall will keep all the "Mexicans" out...

Electrify it and surroud it with a minefield and a line of Claymores on the U.S. side! :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

College students in our day would have been more inclined to vote for somebody that offered free beer.

And I think the free college idea is stupid, but its equally stupid to not look to changing the process when college tuition at so called public universities is so damned high. I guess we forget that our tax dollars also go into that pile as well. So while we might disagree with their solution, some folks (including me) think its ludicrous to have a college graduate begin their careers with what amounts to a mortgage in many cases.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Even how we price college is freakin' ridiculous. Particularly at private colleges, nobody pays full freight. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but typically less than 20%. (State schools aren't quite as bad, but the issue still exists.). It's worse than cars and airline tickets. Sticker is basically a myth. I'm told it's even negotiable as in call them up once you're accepted and tell them they're your first choice, but some other school is offering more aid and they'll deal. Top it all off that these high tuition rates are subsidized by federal loans and what not.

[BarryBobPosthole]

One of mine finished college with really high student loans. To be honest about it, I should have put my foot down and told her to work her way through. Her degree is essentially worthless. But I'm not the only decision maker in this house. So I ended up using a big chumk of MY retirement to pay them off. Now we're going to see some kind of loan forgiveness strategy? Horse shit. If you make a commitment you pay it off. Or have your parents do it, which seems to be this generation's answer to everything.
There's a bunch I'd do over if I could. College isn't for everyone and we've somehow convinced ourselves that a college degree is somehow the minimum acceptable education level for everyone.

BKB

[Buckrub]

My granddaughter just got accepted to Colorado State. She just found out she will get $23,000 per year from 'grant money'. I assume (?) this is because her folks are 'poor' (2 jobs, 2 cars, old house, both work at decent jobs). The total cost of a complete ride is about $26,000 annually. She has not heard from scholarship money yet, but will get some for sure........she's in top 3% of class, made 30 on ACT, etc. She is going for Applied Math degree, sorta rare for a 'white girl'.

$26,000 a year to a state school.........not Univ. of Denver, or Stanford, or whatever. A state school.

My last semester.......out of 10 total counting summer school.........in the spring of 1970.......my tuition was $155.00 for 18 hours. I borrowed $3,000 to get my degree, and I paid it back at around $33.00 a month IIRC, and finished around age 30 IIRC. I'll put my education up against anyone's. I learned to spell, write, cipher, think, compose, figure, and learned how to learn. Today, they learn how to hate rich people and how to make placards.

[Chicken Dinner]

Learning how to learn is the key in my book. I agree college isn't for everyone and there's more than one way to crack that nut. But even if a degree doesn't qualify you for any particular career, it at least demonstrates an ability to finish something which is a trait many young folks today lack.

I will say that a couple of folks I consider to be the most educated people I know lack college degrees and a couple I consider the least educated have advanced degrees.

[Big Muddy]

Same thing for me, Bucky....my folks sent me off to MS State in 1968 with $500 bucks in my pocket....that paid for 18 semester hours, books, lab fees, meal card, and a dormitory room....I had $20 bucks left over for spending money, so I got a part-time job at the college meat processing plant, which supplied all the beef and pork served in the college cafeteria and canteen.

I worked on the killing-floor, and made $34 dollars per week, and always had a little bling in my pocket for the girls. ;)

[Thumper]

We are VERY close friends with a couple who went into heavy debt putting their two kids through college. They both have their degrees. The boy (dumb as a rock) went into the Army and is a "clerk". The girl is a desk clerk at a local fleabag (Indian owned) motel in Orlando, located in the seedier part of town. (As far as I know, they may rent rooms by the hour) She can't even put together a proper sentence, BUT she has a h/s diploma AND an expensive college degree! Their parents are still paying for the kids' educations. Sometimes I have to wonder if the schools are just in it for the money.

Examples of some of her (the daughter's) Facebook posts to show what I mean:

"This is florida for us! Temperatures drops by overnight!" (ok)

"I am beautiful from inside and out! Certainly I don't look like Godzilla/monkey looking!" (after she had her hair done)

"Next Tuesday be my first ever time vote!" (she voted for Bernie)

"Yeah you will be the one who got kicked out becase of you smoking in room... and I get kicked out open my mouth try justify your action with the rest of those old ladies..." " And (name deleted) got kicked out also from try to smart with the director of our actions." (problems at the motel??)

"When you refer someone as dear friend and will have his or her back and he/ she is going through an illness, it would be very nice to show that care at least text messages... you don't know how text message could make person feel good that day. Just saying...Don't pretend you such good friend to that person when you have not do anything for his/her and you only doing such thing in front other people...." (HUH???)

"I don't do thing in personal evil level, I take decision base what you told me to go from there. There is reason why we do thing the way we do thing as that upper level." (I have NO idea)

"You can only do much for someone, at end of the day, they need learn how to do anything on their own, because you are NOT the one to be blame to put them at that situation." (???)

"At the end you get betray someone who you think is you friend. And did not have the guts to tell you thing that is important. What friend right?" (I give up)

Ok, I didn't even dig for the worst of the worst ... I simply copied some of the most recent examples of her posts. If I took the time to search, I could show you some REAL "doozies"! I don't get it.

[Hombre]

Top it all off that these high tuition rates are subsidized by federal loans and what not.


This is the biggest issue. Federal monies that are guaranteed expanded college campuses and college's became less about the education and more about the presentation. The college degrees that have a good ROI are rapidly declining. In my opinion we can do a few things to fix the school issue

1) Expand Trade Schools - Electricians, Telecom Technicians, Plumbers etc. The schools are full of kids who don't see the need for advanced math, english, 2nd langauge class. But, they would excel at programs that teach them a trade that can be directly applied to their passion. On top of this most of these kids can go to a 24 month or less program.

2) Eliminate Guaranteed Loans - Who really think the Government is doing a kid a favor giving them a 7% loan to major in Art History. On a bright note as long as they graduate with an Art History degree they won't have the finance skills to really understand how screwed they are.

I really think providing alternative options and reducing the demand for colleges will bring down the overall cost into a reasonable category where more american kids have a chance to be successful rather than the mirage of being successful.

[BarryBobPosthole]

^^^^^this^^^^

And when the tide turns on manufacturing and trade jobs in the US (and it will) we won't have the workforce to do those things if we don't create it now.

BKB

[Thumper]

I worked 6-days/week at $1.60/hour during the 3 summer months between h/s and college. I made almost exactly $1000 (gross w/overtime). If I remember correctly, my parents kicked in another $200-$300. That total paid for my university tuition, books, dorm room and meal card. I'll admit, I DID supplement my income by street racing and bootlegging booze/cigarettes out of Fulton, Kentucky, but that went toward gas, beer and chasin' wimmins. ;)

[Hombre]

^^ Let me guess you got a degree in Advanced Women's Studies ^^

[BarryBobPosthole]

Advanced CELTIC Women's Studies

BKB

[Thumper]

No degree ... got a free ticket to 'Nam and just couldn't pass up the "opportunity". Came home married and couldn't afford to finish school. To be honest, I'm not so sure a degree would have helped me in any way.

[quercus alba]

When they graduate college and about 35-40 k of their eighty thousand dollar salary is paying for someone else's tuition they'll look back in contrition to that conversation with Jimbo and rue their naivety.

[BarryBobPosthole]

The sad part is every stinking candidate in the race has plans that will make it worse (our debt). The only way Bernie's shit gets paid for is if we're cranking out GDP growth at three or four times what we're doing now. And that ain't happening.

The debt has been lost in the race to. the extreme left and right.
BKB

[Trav]

You know I really like the job I have and I feel I am pretty good at it but the one thing I beat myself up over is that I haven't gone back and got my degree. I spent 2 years at college and have a 3.0 gpa,my issue is I only have 4 credit hours. The thing I am trying to figure out is with my experience would I be better off getting a technical certification of some sort. In the event I find myself needing a Job.

[Chicken Dinner]

As someone who got his BS at 30 and a MS at 42, I'd say that in your field the technical certificate may be more beneficial. I had to get the BS in order to become a CPA. The MS I got because it was important to me personally.

[Big Muddy]

I don't think I've ever mentioned much of my personal stuff here, but if my folks hadn't kicked me outta the house, and into college, I'd prolly be a bum, living on the beach in Florida, right now(ha, I coulda been Thump's yardboy).

With farming in my blood, I got the traditional agri. B.S. degree from MS State....however, a couple of years later, my love of hunting, fishing, and the outdoors, led me to go to night school, and I got my M.S. in Wildlife Management....after my military service, I returned to the farm, and by 1991, my son was pretty much operating the farm on his own, and I got the college itch, again, but this time, mostly for personal satisfaction, much like Chick Dinner mentions.

I had taken some extra courses for my M.S. degree, which could be applied to a PH. D., and my college advisor urged me to go for it....so, in 1996, with lots of leniency with my college schedule from my college profs., and my family, I completed the course requirements and my dissertation for my PH.D. in Wildlife Mngmt.

Long story short, I wouldn't take anything for my educational experience, even though I could have made a fairly comfortable living, without any college degree, at all....so, Trav, unless you are motivated to get your college degree for personal satisfaction, I'd recommend that you get as many technical certifications as possible, in your area of expertise.

P.S. I've got a close family member who only finished community college, then, over the next 14 years, got several technical certifications in his area of expertise....he's now making over $100K, annually.

[Buckrub]

Trav, does your manager have a college degree?

Does your Director have one?

Does your VP have one?

[quercus alba]

Wow. A Ph.D. Farmer. No telling what you'll find on here. Me, I'm just a dumb ole country boy going nowhere. Never been to college never been more than a couple hundred miles away from home and don't figure I've missed a thang. Happy as a dead pig in the sunshine. Only thing I miss is a place to go fishing

[LJ3]

I don't think I've ever mentioned much of my personal stuff here, but if my folks hadn't kicked me outta the house, and into college, I'd prolly be a bum, living on the beach in Florida, right now(ha, I coulda been Thump's yardboy).

With farming in my blood, I got the traditional agri. B.S. degree from MS State....however, a couple of years later, my love of hunting, fishing, and the outdoors, led me to go to night school, and I got my M.S. in Wildlife Management....after my military service, I returned to the farm, and by 1991, my son was pretty much operating the farm on his own, and I got the college itch, again, but this time, mostly for personal satisfaction, much like Chick Dinner mentions.

I had taken some extra courses for my M.S. degree, which could be applied to a PH. D., and my college advisor urged me to go for it....so, in 1996, with lots of leniency with my college schedule from my college profs., and my family, I completed the course requirements and my dissertation for my PH.D. in Wildlife Mngmt.

Long story short, I wouldn't take anything for my educational experience, even though I could have made a fairly comfortable living, without any college degree, at all....so, Trav, unless you are motivated to get your college degree for personal satisfaction, I'd recommend that you get as many technical certifications as possible, in your area of expertise.

P.S. I've got a close family member who only finished community college, then, over the next 14 years, got several technical certifications in his area of expertise....he's now making over $100K, annually.

So Muddy, did you finish? Did you get your PH.D.? I only ask cause watching the wife go thru that process now makes me glad that stuff wasn't ever that important to me :) talk about a shitload of work!

[Big Muddy]

Yep, Len, got it hanging on my wall....as stated, it was just a personal satisfaction thing for me....the dissertation was the REAL work for me....took me about 1-1/2 years, but I had chosen whitetail external parasites and their causative human diseases for my dissertation subject matter, and it involved collection of those external pests....thanks to some very helpful area hunting clubs, who called me, when they had some freshly-killed deer, I collected the necessary samples over a period of 2 hunting seasons....my research was actually published in a handbook for outdoors men....I got a copy of it around here some place.

HA!!!, if anyone needs info. about the brown-legged or the black-legged deer tick, just ask me. ;)

[DeputyDog]

So now that we know this, do we have to start calling you Dr. Muddy?

[LJ3]

Yep, Len, got it hanging on my wall....as stated, it was just a personal satisfaction thing for me....the dissertation was the REAL work for me....took me about 1-1/2 years, but I had chosen whitetail external parasites and their causative human diseases for my dissertation subject matter, and it involved collection of those external pests....thanks to some very helpful area hunting clubs, who called me, when they had some freshly-killed deer, I collected the necessary samples over a period of 2 hunting seasons....my research was actually published in a handbook for outdoors men....I got a copy of it around here some place.

HA!!!, if anyone needs info. about the brown-legged or the black-legged deer tick, just ask me. ;)

Nice Job BM, PH.D.!

I can't even recite my wife's dissertation topic. It has to do with employee satisfaction when their managers suck. I just call it "The Bucky Syndrome" :) The journey she's had to endure just to have her proposal accepted and start her chapter 3 & 4 has been epic.

[Big Muddy]

HA!!!, Deputy, just plain ole Muddy will do just fine. ;)

[Big Muddy]

"The Bucky Syndrome"....I just spit diet coke every where!!!....boy, you just won't do!!! ;)

[DeputyDog]

It's funny that this has came up. Last fall and winter I had some issues with my boss and decided it was time to start seriously thinking about the next phase of my life.

I've been working in LE for the past 26 years, the first 3 in the jail and the last 23 in various positions as a Deputy Sheriff. I've done road patrol on every shift imaginable, been a SWAT officer, spent several years as a Detective, worked on gang and drug task forces.

The situation has gotten to the point that I really need to move on, but I've been doing this since I've been 21 so I haven't really other done anything else. I decided to go back to school and finally finish my Bachelors degree. I've been taking classes since January. It's been a real adjustment but so far everything is going pretty well. I'm finishing it up so that I have more options when I do finally retire from my current department.

I've got my time in to be able to retire, but I'm not old enough to draw it without taking a big hit plus my youngest is only 5 so I've got a long time until the kids are gone.

[Big Muddy]

I admire your perseverance, Ddog....hang in there....my hat's off to LEO's like you and Cap.

[Thumper]

I'd managed some of the more major Cadillac dealerships in the country back in the days when anybody who was anybody owned a Cadillac (before Mercedes, BMW, etc. became popular). I managed the dealership in Hollywood California, the dealership Beverly Hills, Ca, as well as the largest dealer in the country in downtown Los Angeles. I had become the go-to guy with the GM Factory people and became an "un-official" consultant for them ... so I started bouncing from dealer to dealer when the Corporation had a franchise that was in trouble. It got to the point I was doing nothing but turning armpits into franchises Cadillac was proud of and had no problem endorsing. BUT ... it got REALLY old after a few years and I got sick and tired of turning a shit-house dealership into a smoothly operating business. By time I could take a breath and relax, they'd ask if I could tackle another troubled store for them.

I finally got burned out and decided I needed a change. I wanted to start my own business, but really didn't know for sure what I wanted to do. So, I decided I'd leave the dealership business and try something new until I made up my mind what I wanted to do with myself. For many years, I'd had a VERY good working relationship with Enterprise Rental Car (I think they also own Alamo and National Rental Cars). I knew all the management with the company and would always place them in the stores I managed so that they would get all of our rental business (renting to customers who'd leave their cars for service, body work, etc). Anyway, I mentioned to one of the upper management people with Enterprise what my plan was and I was told they had a position for a "management trainee" that sounded like just what I was looking for.

I went down to start the application process and slammed right smack into a block wall. They REQUIRED a Bachelors Degree! WTF? To manage a frigging little rental car franchise? (the job opening was at one of their rental places like you'd see around airports, etc) In all of my 20 years of automobile related management experience within major corporations, I'd never ONCE been asked if I had a degree! And this was for a dang TRAINEE position to rent cars! To make matters worse, I would have been going from a "just under" 6-figure salary to something like $30,000 - $35,000/year! (this was in the very late 80's) I figured I'd be able to get some sort of waiver due to my extensive, prior experience, but their requirements were written in stone. That was the only time in my entire working career I'd ever been asked if I had a degree.

[LJ3]

Luckily I got in under the wire of the degree madness. These days your resume won't make it to a hiring manager in my business without a 4 year degree at a minimum.

[Trav]

Bucky, yep they all have them. I will say it's not that I need any more education to do my job it's more in the event I find myself unemployed.