What's happening in this country?

[Thumper]

Lynn came home last night and dropped a list of names in front of me ... and when I say "list", I'm talking about a LIST ... like 400-500 names! I asked what it was for and she asked me to take a guess. I perused through the pages and they were probably 75% (if not MORE) foreign names. Mostly Asian and Middle Eastern. My first guess? I dunno, a list for the next citizenship Naturalization ceremony? (WRONG!)

As you probably know, Lynn works at the Hyatt which is on the same property with our Convention Center here in town. The hotel is usually full of guests attending whatever function(s) is/are going on at The Center as it is so convenient (the front door to the center is probably 200-feet from the front door of the hotel). What she laid in front of me was a copy of the hotel guest list. Evidently there is a huge Science & Engineering Show going on at the Center and it is comprised of the top 1% of the science/engineering students in the State of Florida! She went in early this morning as she's going to help out feeding all these kids breakfast before they head over to the Convention Center for the day.

I understand the ethnic breakdown would probably be quite different in the Dakotas or Nebraska, etc, but it's almost scary when you think about it. I was part of a group like this when I was in high school. I was one of the top science students in the State of Tennessee and attended a special program for gifted (science) students that summer at the University of Tennessee (Memphis). That was in the late 60's and we were working with lasers (which was VERY new technology at the time). Thinking back, I honestly believe probably 90% of that group was white and 9.99% black.

Is this part of the "dumbing of America"?

I don't know if this post will stir up a bunch of controversy or not. It's not meant to be an argument, just a personal observation from someone on the outside looking in. To be honest, reading through that list last night was a shocking and eye-opening experience. I also realize a name itself means nothing ... I'm sure many of these kids could be 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation citizens, who knows? It's nothing but their ethnic "background" (based on their last names) that I'm taking into account. Is it really our educational system that's broken (like so many people claim), or is it the basic mentality regarding education among our kids (AND their parents I suppose) these days? SOMETHING is broken, that's for sure, but I sometimes wonder if the "system" is nothing but a scapegoat and reality is something altogether different?

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not sure of your point. Is it that there are lots more asian and middleeastern kids or is it that you're deciding they're smarter than us?

I think if you take any class, or race if you prefer that, of immigrants (we're talking legal here) they probably are more motivated to make it in their new country, USA or anywhere else. I know many stories of people who came here from somewhere else and worked their butts off to make themselves and their families successful in their new country. That often translates through several generations. I have a family member who is Vietnamese. Her family came (from the airlift) to Fort Chaffee, Arkansas after Viet Nam. Her parents started with nothing and are now chicken farmers in southeast Oklahoma and have been for years. All of their kids have done extremely well as have their grandkids. Its kind of odd to talk to my cousin (she married into my family) because here's this VERY attractive Vietnamese young lady who talks with a SE oklahoma twang. And she's a sweetie too.
But my point is, immigrants kids and grandkids seem to me to be generally more motivated than your typical American kid student. That may not hold true for illegals but I really don't have any first hand experiece with that.

Is that what you were getting at?

I certanly don't think there's any racial difference in intelligence if that's what you mean. And we certainly don't want to stop or change immigration because some kid might be smarter than ours. Well, not unless you're a redneck.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I don't think it's about difference in intelligence - more like drive/motivation particularly in the STEM area. I'm around kids quite a bit as I have one in middle school, one in high school, coach two youth sports and am a Scout leader. I also went to both of the schools my kids attend. So, I have the perspective of 30 years and I can guarantee you that the kids I see are way more motivated and definitely work a lot harder than we did back in the day. Are they more pampered and entitled? Yes. Are they working harder and taking more challenging course loads? Definitely, yes. My kids high school course catalog looks more like a junior college than it does the high school I went to. All that being said, I do live in a community that highly values education. So, it's probably not completely representative.

[Chicken Dinner]

Barry, if her family went through Fort Chafee then my father may have helped process them. He worked both on the ground in Malaysia and at Ft. Chafee as he was fluent in Vietnamese and worked for the State Department.

[Thumper]

Quote:


But my point is, immigrants kids and grandkids seem to me to be generally more motivated than your typical American kid student. Is that what you were getting at?

Yes, that's exactly my point. We seem to harp on the "the educational system is broken" excuse, yet "motivated" students still excel. I'm simply wondering if "society" is more broken than the system?

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'd agree that immigrants and their kids are generally more motivated but I am not certain that is a sign that anything is broken. I think that's human nature.

So maybe measured by a different barometer, yes I agree we have a problem with education in this country. But the problem isn't with the kids or the teachers, its with the parents. As parents, as citizens, and as voters we seem to look to the passing of some education bill, or funding bill or some teaching method, or by busting some teacher's union, to improve our education system. My opinion is none of those things will fix a goddamned thing that's wrong in education today. Education takes a higher level of commitment by all of the parents, voters, and citizens in order for it to do what we want. There's no presidential candidate that is going to change that. Until we all make it a priority, it won't be one. As Pogo said, the enemy is us. The problem is cultural, not governmental, and certainly not party specific. Government needs to stay the fuck out of it.

BKb