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BarryBobPosthole
12-14-2012, 02:33 PM
20 dead and still counting in Connecticut. Man, that is just terrifying.

BKB

Arty
12-14-2012, 02:43 PM
I'll be huggin the kiddos extra tight tonight.

Terrifying is exactly the word

TheHunter000
12-14-2012, 03:18 PM
The gun control crap has already started. Those are the real sickos. Instead, they SHOULD be worried about those kids and parents. I cannot even freaking imagine something like that happening. Makes me ill...

For the record, I am not worried about the guns. Just make the bullet proof outerwear illegal though.

Thoughts and prayers to all those up there. Just cannot even come close to imagining that pain...

Bwana
12-14-2012, 03:30 PM
What happened, haven't heard the news today?

Bwana
12-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Just read about it.

Chills down my spine.

What is it with these sick #%!#$^# needing to do shit like this?!?!?

LW
12-14-2012, 04:08 PM
Makes me sick. If taking away our guns would stop this from ever happening again, I would give up my great grandfathers guns. We all know it wouldn't stop it. Arm the teachers. These crack pots are only SO crazy. Crazy is walking into a police station and opening fire at people that are gonna shoot back. Walking into a school full of hundreds of unarmed people is just pure planning on feasting on easy targets.

Arty
12-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree.
I hope the fucker suffered before he died.

BarryBobPosthole
12-14-2012, 04:28 PM
I believe we have to rethink how we secure our public schools. I'm not sure it needs to be armed guards but there has to be a way to prevent access to schools by these freaks.
BKB

Bwana
12-14-2012, 04:31 PM
I agree we need to keep these wackos out of the school but that is easier said then done. From what I read this numb-nuts had a child in the school so short of having visitors pass through a metal detector and having an armed guard or armed teachers, not sure how you can stop such a sick event from occurring.

LJ3
12-14-2012, 05:50 PM
All schools in my county have fully armed police officers in schools. Not sure how long a cop would have lasted against an armed assault like that. It's literally sickening.

Niner
12-14-2012, 06:03 PM
I was listening to the jabbering reporters on the radio earlier this afternoon. It was clear to me that they were blaming the gun(s).
He had a Glock and a Sig on him, and they found a Bushmaster (AR15) in his car. This dufus was going on and on about how the Bushmaster uses the 223 round.....like it is the baddest bullet on the planet and just being near one will cause someone to go off the deep end and just start blasting away with those "extended magazines". AND THE FREAKING RIFLE WAS IN HIS CAR*.

Gonna have to watch the TV news tonight I suppose.

*at least that's what the radio news was saying.

HunterEd
12-14-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm sick~ WTF is wrong with these people? Are they programed to go nuts on a weekly basis? Why shoot some little kid? F me, at least go after someone who pissed you off! Teachers need to carry...why be dead because of some lame ass law.

BarryBobPosthole
12-14-2012, 06:47 PM
I heard one of the most cogent statements made by a psychologist on CNN. she talked about how lots of parents and family members have someone in their family that they know is dangerous but current laws prevent them from doing anything about them until they commit a crime. If there is any legal thing that needs to be done to help prevent these, there has to be some sort of way that folks like this can be identified and prevented from harming innocent people. Now that's a tough one, but its the most logical thing I've heard anyone say about it today.

And I've been watching CNN for quite a while and haven't heard anyone say a word about gun control. There'll be plenty of time to argue about that later. Now is not the time, IMO, either way.

BKB

Arty
12-14-2012, 08:06 PM
I agree with ya Posthole, but NBC is already hittin' gun control pretty hard (at least they were around 3-4pm). "The president has already eluded to it in his press conference today"..... Ggggeeeeezzzzz......

One said: "Laws need to be in place so that if someone who has a history of mental illness can't get a gun".

I don't need to explain that dumb fuckin' comment to ANY of you all.

W T F ? ? ?

Babbling fuckin' idiots.

Some Chinese dude sliced up 22 people with a knife today in China. (true, google it).

BUTCHER KNIVES need to be outlawed.

I swear I wish a fucker like this would be around when I was around.

I may go down with the rest of them, but he'd be dodgin' lead.

Nothing would give me more pleasure that to put a hollow point in one of these bastards. That may sound obtuse and cocky, and DUMB. But in situations like this it's the first thing I think of.

Big Muddy
12-14-2012, 08:15 PM
I just can't even wrap my mind around this tragic event, yet.

quercus alba
12-14-2012, 09:49 PM
What I don't understand why every one is surprised. When you raise a generation of people up with Freddie Kruger as their heros and tell them they are God, what should you expect? You can't teach abstinence but hand out rubbers to grade school kids. Let someone try to live a good moral lifestyle in private and they get villianized by the whackos. Welcome to America, the land of the lawsuit where we teach our kids that we're all victims and there is no such thing as personal responsibility. Take away all the guns and some idiot will drive a car thru a playground of preschoolers.

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness....
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:20-21

I'll get off my soapbox. Society needs to look in the mirror if they're looking for the problem

Captain
12-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Good Lord! What has happened? I'm out in the eastern part of the state Duck hunting, fishing and socializing and have not see any news, Until I read this. Just cut on the TV and cannot even imagine the pain those parents are going through.
I'm sure it will be days before that crime scene is complete and they will allow those children to be moved!
Shocking.
Take Care, Captain

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Chicken Dinner
12-14-2012, 11:00 PM
Must...resist...urge...to...engage...liberal hand-wringers...

BarryBobPosthole
12-15-2012, 09:21 AM
Seems like a lot of the BS comes when they run out of things to say and don't have enough sense to shut the hell up. They all do it, just drone on and on. The CNN 'expert' butted in once in an interview and wanted the reporter to ask if the 'shooter' (hate that, should be 'the fucking criminal') used hi capcity magazines or not. He said it was 'extremely important' to know. Why? I don't need to know that. You don't need to know that. There's only one reason anyone would think that's important and thats so they can place blame somewhere. I understand the need to find a reason. But there's not going to be one, other than somebody was fucking crazy and was allowed fo harm people.
BKB

Buckrub
12-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Awful.

What if an armed rent a cop in a school goes rogue?

Arm the teachers...but what if they go nuts?

Outlaw all guns and a mexican drug lord might take revenge on enemy grandkids.

Outlawing the news makes more sense.

The chasm ever widens.

BarryBobPosthole
12-15-2012, 07:34 PM
Just reading reader comments on the online news stories is enoughto make you want to puke.

BKB

DeputyDog
12-16-2012, 07:58 AM
Exactly the reason why I never do that. I'm just so glad that I didn't have to respond to a situation like that.

I guess it's always easier to attack the guns and gun laws than address the real issue...why does our society produce so many people that do things like this. I truly believe that the simulated violence that kids are exposed to from an early age in video games, tv, and movies play a major part in this. They are desensitized to violence from such an early age that it's just a small step to take it into the real world.

The media has been falling all over themselves to get the story out first so it's hard to know what is factual or not, but I saw at one point early one and not much since, that the shooter tried to buy a gun and was refused, so the gun laws worked. Since he couldn't legally buy one, he obtained the guns used illegally.

hotshot
12-17-2012, 11:24 AM
I think one of the first things that should have been in place for years- arm teachers. Not all of them, but those willing. And then train them.
We have seceurity measures.... actually slow down measures. Real secuity measures would be nice.
Supposedly, his mother used to take him shooting, (the criminal). How many red flags were there if he was denied a gun? For that to happen, there had to be all kinds of issues. Why did his family have guns avaliable if he was to the point he was deniable. Also, isn't attempting to obtain a gun an offense worthy of jail time?
None of this brings those kids back....
As a teacher, these kids' safety is my first job. Not just from people breakingin a shooting, but from daily bullying, etc.
Sometimes the parents are the issue.
Frustration and anger appear under the surface, but Love for my kids and truly every kid in my school will hopefully over come.
There has to be some way to not infringe on the rights of citizens, yet apprehend for temporary periods those people that need it. So often- this person needs to be detained, but he or she can't until a crime is committed.
Gotta frustrate you sometimes too Pat. I don't have a sollution either.

DeputyDog
12-17-2012, 08:49 PM
I heard that he was denied because he refused to go through the background check.

Scott, expect to see more cops in the schools from time to time, just walking through. I guess the Sheriff and Police Chief have talked to the principals and they would like to see it.

hotshot
12-18-2012, 10:37 AM
Oh, yeah, lots of badges Monday........ Not a bad thing. Gives me a chance to talk to former students who are now officers. That's a good thing.

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 11:33 AM
The "Assault" weapon ban is coming. No doubt about it. I am more worried about their definition of that. I am guessing the first legislation will be identical to Australia's... Just a guess.

I have to say that this particular killing knocked me down pretty bad. I don't understand what makes any human capable of hurting little ones like that. Brought tears to my eyes when I was talking to mine on the computer last night, my daughter and I rehearsing her Christmas songs for her performance today.

I don't know what the Hell the answers are...but I am sure tired of this question.

Buckrub
12-18-2012, 11:40 AM
There are no answers.

That won't stop the genuises from believing that there are, and forcing them onto us.

The divide we have is not going to continue to peacefully exist. "Dialogue" these days means "Shut up and listen to ME". This won't just go away into the good night. I was born way, way, WAY too late.

BarryBobPosthole
12-18-2012, 12:01 PM
The one 'answer' I was hoping to see addressed, and have seen very little on, is coming up with ways to simply enforce the gun regulations we currently have on the books. I have heard talk of the 'gun show' loophole but that's about it. More regs certainly won't help at all if we don't even enforce the ones we already have.
But, realistically I hate to say that whatever gets done will be lip service anyway. I haven't seen any meaningful legislation since 2000 in ANYTHING at the federal level. Its all been lip service.

BKB

Buckrub
12-18-2012, 12:26 PM
Connecticut has some of the most restrictive gun laws in America. Chicago and D.C. do too, and they are the most unsafe.

Laws don't stop lawbreakers.

They never will enforce the current laws. That's expensive. Passing new laws that make them 'look good' to their constituents is all they care about. Asking this bunch of nimrods to fix the world's problems is absolutely insane, but that's what the 'people' keep asking for, and who they keep looking to for answers.

Amazing.

Back to ostrich-ness for me.

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 12:28 PM
The will call this thing the Sandy Hook Act and it will fly through. And it will ban 'Assault-type weapons". That's my guess.

BarryBobPosthole
12-18-2012, 12:41 PM
I certainly don't have the answer. I wish I did, but I don't. My tendency is to agree with Eddie, we have a values problem more than we have a law problem. I'm not condemning the lady's values that got killed in this deal, but I think overall we do a lot of stuff in America that devalues human life. Its in our politics, its in our entertainment, and its in our religion even. The other guy is the reason we're so fucked up, not me. Its because of them that I'm miserable. And because of that, they're worthless.
But I doubt understanding that fixes anything. I'm not sure there is a 'fix' for this. At this point I think I know more what it ain't than what it is. And that's discouraging.

BKB

Chicken Dinner
12-18-2012, 12:43 PM
It's already started. From today's Washington Post, the POTUS has solicited proposals from all his cabinet members and put Biden in charge of the effort:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-asks-cabinet-members-for-proposals-to-curb-gun-violence/2012/12/17/ac4a8dae-4869-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_story.html?hpid=z2

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 12:46 PM
To be honest, this whole thing, plus a couple other issues, has me bottomed out. I used to tell Buckster all the time that I believe it will get better. That it can be turned around. But man, there is a LOT of bad stuff out there right now. Bad stuff.

This guy tried to buy guns and couldn't. That's at least SOMETHING in my book. But that gets bypassed in this conversation Nationally. And it doesn't matter how many Armed citizens have stopped situations like this. All that matters is that 20 children died and it is the last mass shooting in a stretch of them. And their faces are going to be shoved at us for political gain. And that's the part that will piss me off.

I am a lucky man. Lucky Dad. And I believe in this country.

I just wish that it mattered a bit more.

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 12:53 PM
Eddie talks a lot about God being back in schools. It is interesting to me that when I see this:

The rising anxiety in Washington over how to respond to the Sandy Hook massacre came as a new Washington Post-ABC News poll found a shift in the way most Americans view such tragedies and the reasons behind them.

More than half of the respondents to the poll, conducted over the weekend, said the shooting in Connecticut reflected societal problems rather than the isolated action of a troubled individual. Fewer than a quarter said the same thing after the July shooting in a Aurora, Colo., movie theater, where a gunman killed 12 people and injured dozens.

It never includes the fact that a lot of the things that happened have been since the push to eliminate prayer and religion from schools, etc. There has been a shift in societal thinking. A bad one. It used to be that you could NEVER show a child being hurt or killed in a show or movie. But that's fine now. Happens A LOT. And that's just one example...

We are a culture obsessed with violence. And some folks don't know how to separate reality form fantasy.

Do I think that's the whole answer? Hell no. But it don't help.

But the Assault Weapons ban? That is coming. No doubt.

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Oh, and last...CT already had an Assault Weapons ban at the state level:

http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/law/firearms.htm

BarryBobPosthole
12-18-2012, 01:16 PM
I not so sure that we aren't overlooking some things that ought to be researched and looked into. Our chemical dependency is one example. There's times I think of the old Jefferson Airplane song 'Go Ask Alice'. People take serious medicines that seriously alter brain chemistry when they're sad, and they call it depression. We treat people with chemicals because they won't eat for ever lovin' sakes. We treat people with chemicals because they eat and throw up afterwards. We give our kids chemicals because they won't pay attention.It seems like we try to treat all sorts of things with medicine that aren't medical problems. And I think we have created a very dangerous situation because when it comes right down to it, we don't know how a lot (most?) of these things even work. 'One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small'.....

It may not be the answer, but I think its part of the problem. We medicate the crap out of ourselves for things that we are in fact accountable and responsible for fixing ourselves, or with help from other people. Its just too damned easy. My money is that there will be treatment for depression somewhere along the line in this case.
And its not just for murderers. I lost a very good friend recently to suicide. and he had lots of problems that he brought upon himself. But when it came to fixing them, he turned to medicine instead of to himself or his friends. Regardless of whether the chemicals caused his suicide is debatable. But I do know the route he chose was an empty hole and ultimately he was profoundly discouraged because of it. that can't be denied.

BKB

TheHunter000
12-18-2012, 01:21 PM
I 100% agree with that as well. I got put on an ADHD med and I was just not the same person. I have since stopped and instead learned to more effectively organize and manage my time. And those meds made me think stuff sometimes that just ain't me.

Go figure...

No easy answers. WAY too many questions.

What a world, what a world...

hotshot
12-18-2012, 03:54 PM
Interesting. I too have suffered from ADHD since childhood. Back then we just called it un-focused. Dang! I take a pill every morning.... I feel what life really should be like. I was given a long battery of tests, suggested several meds.... we tried a couple that didn't work, but I take one now that lets me be clear and focused like I have never been able to before.
I do think that the new synthetic drugs are seriously BAD NEWS! Kids that have taken that are hospitalized and brains permanately altered. Meth is really bad news. The paranoia, alone should be enough to stop someone.
I believe in doctors. Actually not all doctors. Some just prescribe a med and call the person treated. Mason's mom supposedly has a Vicadon (sp) issue. She keeps getting scrips. A person cannot carry on a conversation with her without her screaming.
The mental health care in this country has gone downhill fast- back to the Cuck-oo's nest mentality. Budget cuts that keep Indiana in the black, mean that we have the lowest alloted for our mental health institutions.
On that note- Why is there such a stigma on any mental health issue. A person tells you they have diabetes, you shrug your shoulders and don'toffer him or her any candy. A person says I sat down with a shrink, and he says I suffer from blah, blah blah..... suddenly there is a stigma.
Remember when the by died that I was giving CPR.... I did everything right, gave him every chance possible to live. Brought him back twice..... he didn't make it. I was fine. Then 6 months later- I just lost it. I blamed myself and sunk deep.... talked to my doctor. He refered me. a few sessions-no problems since. He did identify my ADHD.... I have had the best 10 yrs of my life since. Am I a responsible gun owner? Yup.
Lots of issues to sort out as a country. Gun control isn't the answer. Better contol of the guns that are in this world, yes- gotta find the way to keep any weapon out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. - much easier said than done.

Chicken Dinner
12-18-2012, 04:20 PM
"I have been working with my staff for over a year on this legislation," Feinstein said in a statement issued Monday. "It will be carefully focused on the most dangerous guns … while protecting the rights of gun owners."

Feinstein said her legislation will outlaw the sale, import and manufacture of more than 100 different firearms, including "semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than ten rounds."

The measure would also ban the sale, import and manufacture of "large-capacity ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips and drums) capable of accepting more than ten rounds."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/18/nra-to-push-back-soon-sources-say/#ixzz2FR8rUybT

Buckrub
12-18-2012, 04:27 PM
Once diagnosed with ANY mental health condition, you can no longer buy life insurance or health insurance at anywhere near standard rates.......for the rest of your life.

Some medicines are keeping me alive. Many are 'new'. Too many exist, and the wrong combinations might be making some folks nuts. But to blame 'medication' is uninformed to the max. My friend at deer camp can't take the same medicines that work great on me. Lisinopril is cheap and keeps my BP at great levels. It drives his to up over 200 and almost kills him. He thinks all medicines are bad and the cause of all these problems. They are NOT. Many work. But some doctor needs to monitor the combos and make sure there are not bad mixtures. Most of these 'bad evil private' insurance companies now do this routinely for you, and send you reports of possible issues.

And we've all known that sometime, those afraid of pieces of metal would control them and go "whew, we fixed it. We did good!" and pay little attention to those behind them. That's inevitable. Sad stuff.

Again, I was born way too late.

Buckrub
12-18-2012, 04:48 PM
We're very close to jerking our knees plumb off.

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=c55d74ec-76ca-400d-a336-d6dddd9619e2

Meanwhile, Louisville Slugger is doing fine. So are knife makers, probably.

Go figure. I don't want to any more.

Buckrub
12-18-2012, 04:56 PM
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=842aeb0c-62d8-47f4-954c-e9d0a44478de

Good grief. It's starting.

The race to see who is most insane.

Reporter on ABC news radio yesterday said and I quote "the shooter used a two hundred thirty caliber rifle and it shoots a very big bullet". So we need to stop selling those, huh? I also heard the rifle described as a "Bushwhacker".

I'm ready to resign from something, I tell you. The Human Race, maybe. I can't do this every day, no way. This is beyond tolerable.

And now this interesting factoid. Makes the knees just about the sole part of the body, seems to me. Geez.

According to recent FBI statistics, rifles are the chosen weapon in about 450 murders per year and according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Adminstration, about 10,000 traffic fatalities PER YEAR are alcohol related.

TheHunter000
12-21-2012, 10:28 AM
hotshot, I hope you didn't take that wrong. I had a doc where I took an online test and she said "Well, let's try this med". Got switched a few times. Period. I was never given ,more info or anything else, just told to take it once a day. When I raised my hand to my wife at the time (just raised my hand), I stopped. Because I do NOT do that. Never have. And I had to get control of myself again. Maybe a different doc or test would tell me other stuff. But that was it for me.

Now? The tools I used from an ADHD coach helped me get control of my issues. And I am a happy individual. If it came out as a shot at those that use it, or as me insulting others, I apologize.


Interesting. I too have suffered from ADHD since childhood. Back then we just called it un-focused. Dang! I take a pill every morning.... I feel what life really should be like. I was given a long battery of tests, suggested several meds.... we tried a couple that didn't work, but I take one now that lets me be clear and focused like I have never been able to before.
I do think that the new synthetic drugs are seriously BAD NEWS! Kids that have taken that are hospitalized and brains permanately altered. Meth is really bad news. The paranoia, alone should be enough to stop someone.
I believe in doctors. Actually not all doctors. Some just prescribe a med and call the person treated. Mason's mom supposedly has a Vicadon (sp) issue. She keeps getting scrips. A person cannot carry on a conversation with her without her screaming.
The mental health care in this country has gone downhill fast- back to the Cuck-oo's nest mentality. Budget cuts that keep Indiana in the black, mean that we have the lowest alloted for our mental health institutions.
On that note- Why is there such a stigma on any mental health issue. A person tells you they have diabetes, you shrug your shoulders and don'toffer him or her any candy. A person says I sat down with a shrink, and he says I suffer from blah, blah blah..... suddenly there is a stigma.
Remember when the by died that I was giving CPR.... I did everything right, gave him every chance possible to live. Brought him back twice..... he didn't make it. I was fine. Then 6 months later- I just lost it. I blamed myself and sunk deep.... talked to my doctor. He refered me. a few sessions-no problems since. He did identify my ADHD.... I have had the best 10 yrs of my life since. Am I a responsible gun owner? Yup.
Lots of issues to sort out as a country. Gun control isn't the answer. Better contol of the guns that are in this world, yes- gotta find the way to keep any weapon out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. - much easier said than done.