Trump's gonna be pissed!

[Thumper]

Looks like Chrysler Corp. is moving ALL of their car production overseas (including Canada/Mexico). The ONLY thing that will be made in the good ol' U. S. of A. will be the Ram and Jeep SUV's.

Of course the union is raising hell. You know the union I'm talkin' 'bout ... the one that demands "NEW HIRES" be paid $30/hr.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Why shouldn't they be pissed? Would you not be pissed if somebody moved your job to another country?

Here's your idol, eating KFC. That oughta put him back in your good graces.

BKB

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/08/02/donald-trump-eating-fried-chicken-with-fork-sends-internet-into-meltdown/?intcmp=hpffo&intcmp=obnetwork

[Thumper]

Of course I'd be pissed. Now turn it around, would YOU be pissed if you owned your own business and some fucking union told you how to run it, who you can/cannot hire/fire, what benefits you HAD to afford them and how much you HAD to pay them including $30/hr. for new-hires and who knows what for someone with a year of experience under their belt .... AND, you'd better do it or they'll pitch a hissy-fit and shut your business down? (have I ever told you what I think of unions?)

As for Trump, I TOLD ya' he's a smart man! ;)

[Chicken Dinner]

I used to pretty much agree with you Thump and then I took a labor relations class. The instructor was one of Anheiser Busch's chief labor negotiators. So, he was no Union sympathizer and had lots of good war stories. One of his main take always was that large manufacturing businesses need unions if for no other reason than they can't be wasting time negotiating pay and benefits with every swinging dick on the factory floor.

[Thumper]

The problem I have is ... I don't call it "negotiating" when they say, "You WILL pay this or we'll strike!" :(

[BarryBobPosthole]

So, I guess you're saying its fine to move jobs offshore as lng as they are union jobs?

Salty Salterson

[Chicken Dinner]

The problem I have is ... I don't call it "negotiating" when they say, "You WILL pay this or we'll strike!" :(

Real life just isn't that one-sided.

[Thumper]

My main problem is, I hate stinkin' mf'ing unions. I was forced to join one once (construction) and quit immediately. Went to a non-union company working on the Dallas/Ft. Worth Airport. Then I had a run-in with a fuckhead with the Carpenter's Union because I TOUCHED a fucking hammer to hand it to one of his employees who had dropped it from the roof he was working on. I was told in no uncertain terms, I'm working on pipeline construction and I'm not allowed to touch a hammer because I'm not in the carpenter's union! (true story) I was 19 frigging years old and wanted to cold-cock the dude.

Then when my dad and I went into business living on a shoestring to get started up, some union asshole came in and tried to unionize our shop. We locked the gates the next morning and gathered the employees together. Told 'em unionize and we're closed and out of business. If they like and want to keep their jobs, they're welcome to come in and go to work. That's the last we ever heard about a union.

Assholes!

[Chicken Dinner]

Don't get me wrong, forcing a man to join a union is just plain wrong and work rules can clearly go too far. It's just my belief that in most cases where unions exist management and unions deserve each other.

[Captain]

It's just my belief that in most cases where unions exist management and unions deserve each other.

That make complete sense and is put differently than I've ever heard.
Don't get me wrong, I HATE unions, be clear about that, but that statement really addresses to reason/need for unions.

[Chicken Dinner]

I don't think I can claim credit as I'm pretty sure it's a paraphrase of something one of my elders (a certain Posthole digger) around here has maintained for years.

[Captain]

I don't think I can claim credit as I'm pretty sure it's a paraphrase of something one of my elders (a certain Posthole digger) around here has maintained for years.

Well then I completely disagree with it.... ;). :D

[Thumper]

Captain;


I HATE unions, be clear about that, but that statement really addresses to reason/need for unions.

Ha Cappy ... I assume that "to" is supposed to be a "no". (???) ;)

Yeah CD, I don't know if rules have changed or not and I may just be hard-headed. My ONLY dealing with unions on a personal basis were my younger, "formative" years (19 - 23). Oddly, why was I working construction in Texas when I was 19? I had landed a job with General Motors. I quit college, moved to Texas and rented an apartment on Saturday ... then on Sunday the railroad went on strike, forcing the GM plant to shut down since they could get very few parts shipped in, or cars shipped out! They had to put a freeze on hiring first thing Monday morning. Then as the strike dragged on, they had to start laying people off. I was then told, due to union rules (and understandably I suppose) that once the strike ended, everyone who had been laid off, would have to be back to work before any "new hires" could come in. Ironically, I assume I'd have had to join the Auto Workers Union to start. I was to start on the assembly line briefly, but my job was to actually be in the head office (I was very close friends with the #2 man at GM .. the one who convinced me to move to Texas). Damn, I'd just rented an apartment and only had about $300 in my pocket, with NO JOB! I had to grab a construction job to pay the bills. BTW ... my draft lottery number came up (#51) as I was awaiting the end of the strike and the next thing I knew, I had orders for Vietnam. I never did get to start work at GM. THEN came the union fiasco with the construction job. Then, just a few months after getting out of the service and going to work with my dad, I experienced the union bullshit at OUR business. I've hated unions ever since. :pissed

[BarryBobPosthole]

You can hate 'em all you want, its a free country.

My state, ran by republicans, hates the teacher union so bad they've passed every law they can to make live difficult for them. Like capping what they'll pay for benefits. So they used to pay 100% of health insurance. Now they don't, thanks to legislation, and so teachers effectively got a pay CUT. they've fucked themselves and our state along with it.

Union membership is way DOWN if you look at the numbers. You can look them up for yourself. But once a place gets a union, they ain't ever gonna get rid of it.

BKB

[HideHunter]

I carried a carpenter's card for a few years.. I've seen things exactly as you described Thump.. I preferred to work "Highway and Heavy".. I always said it was kind of like the "Blue Collar" union. I had two Laborers assigned to me. If I was building forms and my guys were off doing something, I thought nothing of grabbing a shovel and cleaning something up a little. I've moved dirt, finished concrete (the carpenters 'had' the concrete on a lot of H&H jobs) run equipment and even tied steel.. Operators were slightly more touchy.. but, if you were going to have a problem it would be with the rod busters..

The *main* thing I don't like about Unions.. I have a lot of friends and aquaintances who grew up right here in the rural Midwest. They are every bit as "conservative" as I.. but they *vote* Democratic because the union tells them to.

[Thumper]

P-hole, the attitude I've always had is the same attitude I've always had working non-union jobs. If you don't like where you're working ... go elsewhere. If they don't pay you what you "think" you're worth ... go elsewhere. If you don't get the benefits you "think" you deserve ... go elsewhere. It's a free fucking country. If I own a business and I underpay my employees, give them no benefits and treat them like shit, how long do you think I'll be in business? If my competitor down the street pays well, has decent benefits and is Mr. Nice Guy ... who's doors do you think will remain open? We bitch about too much government running our lives ... but some of us seem to have no problem with a union running a business owners life. I suppose it all depends on which side of the fence you're on.

As for teachers, I have nothing AT ALL against them. BUT .... I spent my life building my career moving to greener pastures. If BS gets $35,000/yr. to teach in Montana, but can get $55,000/yr. if he moved to California ... I have a feeling he'd stay in Montana. That's his prerogative as there is a benefit in Montana that he'd rather have over income. That's HIS choice ... take it or leave it. I left Florida for Mississippi because I was offered a better job and pay grade. I left Mississippi to move to Memphis ... same reason. I left Memphis to go to Tulsa ... same reason. I then went to Los Angeles because I was made an offer I couldn't refuse. During my 13 years in L.A. I worked in Beverly Hills, to Hollywood, to Los Angeles, back to Beverly Hills, back to Hollywood and then to Glendale. Every move was for a better offer. I was an advancement whore ... if Joe Blow offered me a better overall package than Mr. Dingleberry, I'd work for Joe Blow. That's the way our economy works. Does "loyalty" come into play? Hell no. I learned early on that company loyalty gets you nothing but disappointment in the end. The days of spending 30 years with a company and retiring with a nice pension and a gold pocket watch went out the door with our grand parent's generation. I prefer to find work with my own merits ... not because some union told my company they had to hire me.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not participating in another union discussion here. There won't be any kind of agreement. So why bother?

Neither of us work for someone else, so for you and me its a moot point isn't it?

BKB

[Thumper]

Wanna go fishing? ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

fuckin-a!

BKb

[Thumper]

At the dentist right now. Can you wait for me?

[DeputyDog]

You can hate 'em all you want, its a free country.

My state, ran by republicans, hates the teacher union so bad they've passed every law they can to make live difficult for them. Like capping what they'll pay for benefits. So they used to pay 100% of health insurance. Now they don't, thanks to legislation, and so teachers effectively got a pay CUT. they've fucked themselves and our state along with it.

Union membership is way DOWN if you look at the numbers. You can look them up for yourself. But once a place gets a union, they ain't ever gonna get rid of it.

BKB

You probably won't find any state more pro Union than Michigan and they did the same thing to the teachers. It didn't matter what the contract said, or the financial state of the district, the school could no longer may more than 80% of the insurance costs.