LE's Get Ready

[BarryBobPosthole]

You're about to be repurposed to be Trump's Deportation Force.

But there's only 10 million or so of them. I'm sure the profiling, id checking, and deportation won't affect commnity based policng in any way.

Maybe he'll make Sheriff Arpaio his Head of the Thought Police too. Since a values test will be a permanent part of immigration law if he's elected.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I'm no fan of Trump. However, I fully support profiling in law enforcement. Heck, it's not grey hair old ladies that are blowing shit up and killing people. It's young men, Muslims, racists (black and white) and white "militia" members, who are. We should be profiling the hell out of all of them.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I disagree. Giving the local police the responsibility and power to demand that a person show proof of citizenship or be taken into custody is giving them reasonable cause to do any number of things, like search and seizure, etc. There are many constitutional issues with this.
And to make matters worse, Trump plans to extend federal support to local police forces to enforce federal immigration laws. And he stated they would make it a priority. At least until the Federal Deportation Task Force, a new law enforcement agency with yet undefined powers, is formed.

It might not scare the holy fuck out of you. It scares the holy fuck out of me.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I already live in a "sanctuary city". So, don't get me started.

[BarryBobPosthole]

So how does living in a sanctuary city personally affect you? I'm curious. You make it sound like there are some serious consequences to that status.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

Just a quick question. If I stop a person who can only provide me with a foreign ID should I be able to ask for some other documentation to show that they are in this country legally?

[DeputyDog]

So how does living in a sanctuary city personally affect you? I'm curious. You make it sound like there are some serious consequences to that status.

BKB

So I guess if it doesn't personally affect a person they shouldn't care anything about it.

I doubt anyone would ask you to prove your citizenship so why do you care about it? It won't affect you personally.

[Chicken Dinner]

You're trying to get me to go somewhere that's not what I mean. I've long maintained that you couldn't get anything cleaned, built or grown in these parts without cheap immigrant labor. Me, included and I don't think we should throw everyone out or demand to see their papers on sight. That being said, if you read our weekly police report at least 80% of the crime is committed by people with Hispanic names. While I have no idea to their immigration status, I do think we should be checking that for someone who is otherwise accused of a crime. My county refuses to do so. My willingness to profile criminals goes way beyond immigration status.


So how does living in a sanctuary city personally affect you? I'm curious. You make it sound like there are some serious consequences to that status.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

First question: I honestly don't know that a law enforcement person isn't empowered to do that very thing today. So I guess that is a question for you. Can you take someone into custody if you ask for their id, they produce a foreign one or have no recognized id, and you suspect they are in the country illegally? But to answer your question to me, I don't have an issue with police being able to detain someone they think is breaking a federal or state or local law. I suppose that includes being here illegally. What I do have an issue with though is twofold: a federal mandate to enforce immigration laws would seriously impact my local police's ability to do an already difficult job. Plus I want my town, my county and my state to set LE's priorities, not the federal government. Secondly, at least in my state police don't target people to stop and inspect because they suspect they might be illegal immigrants. I think that if we do make it a priority in local enforcement, then that creates a really wide open and dubious cause for illegal search and seizure. I have personal feelings against profiling, but I'm not nearly as concerned about that as the search and seizure part. And in Oklahoma, we've set up our LE's to be able to seize those people's personal property.
Second question: I think its a fair question to know how people perceive things affect them personally. Especially when the whole premise of the federal government deciding for a city what its law enforcement priorities and policies are is based on a person's personal security. The whole argument is based on the idea that there are gamgs of illegal alien criminals stalking the good citizens of these sanctuary cities.

Sorry for the wall of words.

BKb

[BarryBobPosthole]

You're trying to get me to go somewhere that's not what I mean. I've long maintained that you couldn't get anything cleaned, built or grown in these parts without cheap immigrant labor. Me, included and I don't think we should throw everyone out or demand to see their papers on sight. That being said, if you read our weekly police report at least 80% of the crime is committed by people with Hispanic names. While I have no idea to their immigration status, I do think we should be checking that for someone who is otherwise accused of a crime. My county refuses to do so. My willingness to profile criminals goes way beyond immigration status.

I'm not trying to get you to go anywhere, dufus.

My understanding of how sanctuary cities work is that they enforce whatever criminal law is broken and person pays the penalty for it, then if it is one of the serious crimes identified by Homeland Security the people that are here illegally are housed locally until the feds put them through the deportation process. The cities are then reimbursed for that cost. (which has turned into quite the little PNL center of its own) If their crime doesn't meet that threshold, then they are released, and the city considers their debt to society paid regardless of their immigration status. This is what makes them a sanctuary city.
Now, if your city has an issue of releasing criminals that haven't paid for their crimes then that's an entirely different kettle of fish, which is essentially what sanctuary cities are saying with their policies. We shouldn't use immigration laws to do what our local and state law enforcement and laws won't do. You simply want to use immigration laws to sweep up the mess your local govern,ent won't or can't solve.

Or at least that's my opinion, you salty fucker you.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

No worries. We do have violent Central American gangs in my area. Admittedly, not in my neighborhood and most of the crime I mention above mostly seems appears based on my unscientific observation to be immigrant on immigrant. So, I'm not directly impacted. However, part of the reason I moved about 10 years ago was to leave an area that was impacted by it more. I will also say that there is an impact of me as taxpayer as LEO's and the courts spend a disproportionate amount of their resources in these areas. I also "believe" there is a federal law (DD might be able to shed some light on what this actually says) that if someone is detained (for some criminal reason) their immigration status is supposed to be checked and the Feds contacted if they're here illegally. That's the law my county has chosen to ignore by being a sanctuary city. Basically, liberals get to feel good about themselves at the expense of a higher crime rate and a drain on resources.

[DeputyDog]

That's pretty much the case. The focus is supposedly on criminal aliens whether they are here legally or not. If they commit what is determined to be a serious crime they are supposed to serve out there time for that crime and then a detainer is placed on them by the Feds and they will pick them up for deportation after they have served their time for the local charges.

The problem is that unless it is a capital crime they are entitled to bond and are never seen again.

[Chicken Dinner]

Oh yeah, that asset forfeiture stuff is pure bull shit. Who ever approved that idea ought to have his assets seized and sorry ass thrown in jail. Taking a man's property without due process is one of the main reasons we threw the British out.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Just curious but how many common criminals do this (jump bail) compared to the illegal immigrant criminals? So kn other words are we losing out on punishing criminals for their crimes (other than the federal immigration one they broke) more often than our regular old losers?

BKB

[DeputyDog]

BTW, unless specifically empowered by the federal government local Leo's can't enforce federal law. So I can't arrest anyone for immigration violations even if I catch them and unless they meet the current criteria that ICE is using they are left to go on their merry way.

Maybe it's not a bad thing to let locals enforce immigration violations if they come across them. Not many agencies have the manpower or resources to set up units to specifically target this, but if I come across them I should be able to do something about it.

An example is possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. That is a federal law, but I can't enforce it. Indiana has a similar law but is specifically states "possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon" and goes on to list specific statutes that a person must have been convicted of to fall into that category. All I can do is take the firearm into evidence and refer the case to ATF who may or may not do anything with it.

[DeputyDog]

Just curious but how many common criminals do this (jump bail) compared to the illegal immigrant criminals? So kn other words are we losing out on punishing criminals for their crimes (other than the federal immigration one they broke) more often than our regular old losers?

BKB

In my experience yes because they are much more transient and have fewer ties to that community it's easier for them to move on and not be found.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I don't disagree on principle with any of that. I'm simply saying do you want your boss, the sheriff in your case, to decide those priorities or do you want the federal govern,ent to do it? That's been my main point all along and I've yet to hear an answer from either of you two dufi.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

In my experience yes because they are much more transient and have fewer ties to that community it's easier for them to move on and not be found.
Seems like the bail bondsmen ain't doing their homework if that's the case! Aren't they losing their shirts on these guys?

BKB

[HideHunter]

Best way to handle it here (we have a burgeoning Latino population) would just be check "papers" when they arrest them for other crimes. Our little weekly wipe has a dozen or so every week in the arrest records.

[Thumper]

Well, I do a lot of world travel and have carried a copy of my passport in my wallet for probably 20 years. I don't think I've ever traveled to a foreign country where the local cops can't check my passport. I'm SUPPOSED to carry my actual passport with me at all times, but I seldom do. The one time I was checked, they went to my hotel with me so I could show my entry visa. (AND check for exit date in the case of an overstay) Remember, two of the 9/11 hi-jackers were in the country in overstay status. I'm with CD ... sorry, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... well, you get the point. I can have my passport/visa checked by LE at any time in Thailand because I'm a white guy. It never bothered me. Now, if I'm an overstay, they'll detain me until an Immigration Officer arrives. I have no problem with that.

[DeputyDog]

Seems like the bail bondsmen ain't doing their homework if that's the case! Aren't they losing their shirts on these guys?

BKB

Some of the bondsmen around here won't touch them.

And no I don't want the federales telling local LE. How to do the job because most of them have no clue how real police work goes. But I'd be all in favor of giving me the power to do something with illegals (or to be PC, undocumented) if I encounter them.

The federal govt could fuck up a wet dream. Two things they need to stay out of is LE and education.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yes, let's be more like Thailand.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

Some of the bondsmen around here won't touch them.

And no I don't want the federales telling local LE. How to do the job because most of them have no clue how real police work goes. But I'd be all in favor of giving me the power to do something with illegals (or to be PC, undocumented) if I encounter them.

And I have no problem with that if that's what your local LE folks want to do. And if the elected LE people don't do what the people want, maybe the next one will do better (after the election).

BKB

[Thumper]

Yes, let's be more like Thailand. BKB

Actually, we COULD learn some lessons from them in many areas where we have problems, but that's another whole subject. I mention Thailand only because I have the most hands-on experience there. Name a country where local LE can't check your passport. Many places I've traveled to, you can't even check into a hotel without showing your passport and they make a photocopy of the PP and visa stamp at check-in.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I have done a bit of traveling to other countries myself. I have never been asked for my passport from any local authorities unless it was going through some travel process, like customs, checking into a hotel, etc. and that was for id purposes that had nothing to do with immigration status checking.

While I agree many countries have more strict immigration processes, the ones I've visited haven't been overly interested in anything more than how many benjamns I leave.

BKb

[Thumper]

I have done a bit of traveling to other countries myself. I have never been asked for my passport from any local authorities unless it was going through some travel process, like customs, checking into a hotel, etc. and that was for id purposes that had nothing to do with immigration status checking.

While I agree many countries have more strict immigration processes, the ones I've visited haven't been overly interested in anything more than how many benjamns I leave.

BKb

True, and basically my experience also. BUT ... the point is they CAN and WILL if they want to. Now I will say, in some of the communist countries I've visited, I 'bout wore my passport out since it went in and out of my pocket so many times. (And no, before you go there, that's not an invitation for you to ask if we should be more like the commies) ;)

[BarryBobPosthole]

I listened to Trumps speech last night and it scared the shit out of me. You guys seem to think that's some sort of liberal pinko failure of character or something that has caused me to have weak views on immigration. That's not true.
Here's what I disagree with:
1. the premise that we live in some country where it is nsafe to live because of the number of illegal aliens that are here. The data doesn't show that, personal ecperience doesn't show that, and common sense doesn't support it. The fact that they are illegally in the United States has very little to do with our crime rates, period. If creating this big false dystopian view of life in our country by Trump doesn't bother you, then you have a different view of honesty than I do.
2. the idea of a huge federal police force that will seek out, arrest, and export illegals, to enforce that specific set of federal laws, goes against every balance of federal vs local powers that we have ever seen. What else will the government decide to use them for once they are in place? This will cost trillions of dollars to do, find, arrest, and deport 11million people
i mean. What gets cut to pay for it?
3. Trump actually referred to his proposed wall as The Great Wall. We can't even rebuilt fucking bridges in Oklahma that are falling down and we're going to build a soviet style Great Wall between us and a fucking ally? Seriously? If the sheer dumbness of the idea doesn't faze you, maybe the cost vs benefit will. What's the ROI on this? How about NEVER.
4. We've beat the horse on local law enforcement to death. No need to kill it more.
5. do we really think there's a line of US citizens at the local chicken plant begging for a job? Or to pick fruit and vegetables, or to roof houses? Will we pay ten times what we pay now to get those jobs done? Why haven't we provided a work visa program for migrant workers so they can pay taxes, work here legally, and then go home? Here's why, BECAUSE IT WILL MEAN THEY WILL HAVE TO BE pAID MORE. Simle. Has nthng to do with crime, or laws or any of that other bullshit.

BKB

[Thumper]

It's a subject that can be bounced back and forth forever and never resolved. To be honest, I just don't get it. There's no other frigging country in the world you can simply walk into with no due process whatsoever, and simply start living with government benefits. Did you get your ass knocked up? No problem, sneak across in the middle of the night, check yourself into any hospital and bingo ... pop out a US citizen ... all at the US tax payer's expense!

What I fail to understand is all the b/s rhetoric about granting amnesty to all those who are here and haven't committed any crimes. WTF does that mean? They committed a fucking crime the second they stepped across that border with no paperwork. Isn't that why they're referred to as "illegals"??

[BarryBobPosthole]

"It's a subject that can be bounced back and forth forever and never resolved. To be honest, I just don't get it. There's no other frigging country in the world you can simply walk into with no due process whatsoever, and simply start living with government benefits. Did you get your ass knocked up? No problem, sneak across in the middle of the night, check yourself into any hospital and bingo ... pop out a US citizen! "

Thumper, hardly anything you have said in that statement is true.

BKB

[Thumper]

Are you wearing your rose-colored Libtard glasses today? :D

[BarryBobPosthole]

No I'm not. What federal benefits do they receive? You made the statement. You need to back it up.

BKB

[Thumper]

Well, to be honest (and not a cop-out), I was just headed out the door to meet Lynn for lunch. Since I don't have time to play, I Googled and simply copied the FIRST site that came up. I actually don't have time to read it, but I'm sure you'll fill me in on it's inaccuracies when I get home. Later ... I'm gonna go stuff my piehole!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/how-undocumented-immigrants-sometimes-receive-medicaid-treatment/

[BarryBobPosthole]

Oh boy you got me there. The article says its less than 1% of medicaid costs, and also states there is no evidence anywhere that peole cross the border in order to have babies here.

But in a Thump/Trump world I suppose when these mothers show up, we should arrest them instead of treat them. I mean, they're illegals, right?

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. (Trump might want to ask the Chinese how well that Great Wall worked against the Mongols.) TBH, this really didn't go where I thought it would when I suggested profiling young male rednecks.


I listened to Trumps speech last night and it scared the shit out of me. You guys seem to think that's some sort of liberal pinko failure of character or something that has caused me to have weak views on immigration. That's not true.
Here's what I disagree with:
1. the premise that we live in some country where it is nsafe to live because of the number of illegal aliens that are here. The data doesn't show that, personal ecperience doesn't show that, and common sense doesn't support it. The fact that they are illegally in the United States has very little to do with our crime rates, period. If creating this big false dystopian view of life in our country by Trump doesn't bother you, then you have a different view of honesty than I do.
2. the idea of a huge federal police force that will seek out, arrest, and export illegals, to enforce that specific set of federal laws, goes against every balance of federal vs local powers that we have ever seen. What else will the government decide to use them for once they are in place? This will cost trillions of dollars to do, find, arrest, and deport 11million people
i mean. What gets cut to pay for it?
3. Trump actually referred to his proposed wall as The Great Wall. We can't even rebuilt fucking bridges in Oklahma that are falling down and we're going to build a soviet style Great Wall between us and a fucking ally? Seriously? If the sheer dumbness of the idea doesn't faze you, maybe the cost vs benefit will. What's the ROI on this? How about NEVER.
4. We've beat the horse on local law enforcement to death. No need to kill it more.
5. do we really think there's a line of US citizens at the local chicken plant begging for a job? Or to pick fruit and vegetables, or to roof houses? Will we pay ten times what we pay now to get those jobs done? Why haven't we provided a work visa program for migrant workers so they can pay taxes, work here legally, and then go home? Here's why, BECAUSE IT WILL MEAN THEY WILL HAVE TO BE pAID MORE. Simle. Has nthng to do with crime, or laws or any of that other bullshit.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

I love books about the Mongols, and have read several. If you onow of any good nes pass them along.

They were bad mammajammers.

BKB

[Thumper]

1) What federal benefits do they receive? You made the statement. You need to back it up.

2) ... there is no evidence anywhere that people cross the border in order to have babies here. ...BKB

Well, in a RUSH, I posted evidence ... but the numbers aren't high enough to satisfy you, so I guess (in your Liberal mind) ... they don't exist. I'm too dang lazy to get into a tit for tat discussion on the subject, but the one article I hurriedly posted before leaving says: The federal government doesn’t require states to report how many people receive services through Emergency Medicaid payments to hospitals.

BUT ... some states do keep tabs. Here are a hand full out of 50 referring to illegals:

California hospitals get about half the $2 billion spent annually on Emergency Medicaid. The rest is spread mainly among a handful of states.

In 2011, for example:

New York spent $528 million on Emergency Medicaid for nearly 30,000 people.

Texas reported 240,000 claims costing $331 million. (One person could be responsible for multiple claims.)

Florida spent $214 million on 31,000 patients.

North Carolina spent $48 million on about 19,000 people.

Arizona spent $115 million. It couldn’t break out the number of people.

Illinois spent $25 million on the cost of care to nearly 2,000 people.

And of course, in YOUR opinion, "anchor babies" are a figment of our imaginations also, but some will disagree with you....

Lauren Weber, a midwife in San Diego, said that some patients from Mexico have confided to her that they've temporarily secured a U.S. address and a utility bill, which is typically enough to qualify them for birth-related care paid by California's version of Medicaid.

"There are a million hardworking Hispanic people in San Diego who came here to work and then happened to have a baby," she said. "Then there are people who come over in order to have a baby." She estimated that in the clinic where she works part time, a third to a quarter of her patients have come over for the express purpose of having a baby, and the rest are staying in the U.S. for the longer term, whatever their legal status may be.

Of course. to carry this thread out any longer will be nothing but http://www.animateit.net/data/media/feb2013/deadhorse.gif

[airbud7]

Why dont we just take over mexico?...in a nice way like merge or something.

[LJ3]

If someone commits a crime or is detained by LE, check their immigration status. If they're here illegally, deport them immediately. If they come back, they serve hard federal time. Do it consistently and the problem will sort itself out. Thing is, too many people feel guilty doing that.

If they are here illegally they have already broken US law. There are people waiting and following our process that deserve better. That's where our attention should be focused.

Metaphorically, we are not the biggest lifeboat in the sea to which everyone can swim to safety because they don't like the boat they're in or their boat has sunk.

You wanna be a US citizen? Follow the fucking process the rest of the responsible and law abiding people are following. It's not rocket surgery.

[Thumper]

Why dont we just take over mexico?...in a nice way like merge or something.

Ha! That's how we got most of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah and Colorado! ;)

[Captain]

Posthole you are so full of shit it ain't even funny.... Oh and by the way you are wrong on most of what you say on this issue.
The one thing that stands out with me is when you say you listened to Trumps speech and it scared the shit out of you.
Well I'd say anything that he says scares the shit out of you because you automatically disagree with any stance that ain't liberal.
If the world short circuited and all of a sudden TRUMP was saying everything that Hillary is saying, and Hillary started saying everything Trump is saying you would agree with Hillary and Trump would still scare the shit out of you. (Making Hillary's points)
You are getting WAY to predictable.
For example; whatever Trump says next, I know you are going to have an issue with it. The same what you did with Bush and Bush..... ;)