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I joined a FB group called Oklahoma Arrowheads and Artifacts and I am amazed at the stuff that gets found every single day. Of course, Oklahoma is a target rich environment for that sort of thing.
Check it out if that sort of thing interests you. I know Artie would like it.
BKB
Our Veterinarian is a HUGE player in the arrowhead/spear point collecting thing. He has 'em in shadow boxes all over his wall at the office. If you get him talking about arrowheads, you may as well order lunch because you'll be there a while. He plans ALL of his vacations around hunting the things.
I know Cappy is big into collecting. I think his coolest find is a deer vertebra with a spear point stuck through it. When I was a kid spending summers with my grandparents in North Carolina, I could pick up a shoe box of those things anytime a farmer plowed his field. I have no clue whatever happened to mine.
It has become a trading thing to the point where its very hard to find a site where there isn’t a wordsaid about monetary worth.
I’ve seen the tip of the iceberg that is Captain’s collection and it is fun to look through it. He gave me four or five points he’d found and I keep them out on my desk in my office and fondle them once in a while.
BKB
Check this out.
https://youtu.be/l7jMxfopKjM
I don't follow that sort of thing, but I've heard there are a LOT of modern fakes around now. I went to a Pioneer Days thingie here a couple years ago. It's a big annual get-together where everyone wears period clothes and sets up a big camp for a few days mimicking the old days of the pioneers. It's pretty interesting. I also remember a guy there who had a big pile of flint and he'd do nothing but sit there making arrowheads by hand. Maybe the experts can tell the difference, but to my inexperienced eye, they looked persactly like the stuff I used to pick up in the corn and tobacco fields in N.C.
Ha! You posted that video as I was posting the above. I see the guy in the video is actually making his own spear points. I watched about 10 mins. of the video, then Lynn got home from work. I'll catch the rest of it when I get time later tonight.
My Dad had quite a collection including several war club heads. Several of them were found when they were remodeling the house I grew up in on the lake. This area is an area that would have been predominantly Potawatomi or Miami territory.
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Barry, You know I love this shit! I will lay a point in my hand and sit and stare at it, while I think about all the shit that it and it’s maker saw. Then I’ll blink, and 30 minutes have passed. It is so intriguing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
It has been a money market for years! I’ve been out of it for 15 years or more, but I used to NET a grand a week on eBay... for 2-3 years. I didn’t spend more than 4-5 hours a week doing that. I could have made a LOT more. But I had a kid in diapers and a job working 55-60 hours a week.
And to the quote above, I am certainly not an expert, but I could pick out the one that ole cheiftan napped out at the pioneer days thingamajig. I could show you what to look for in about 2 minutes. What I have a hard time with is the points that were repaired, and then “aged” with lime, charcoal, heat, etc.
There are only 6-8 “authenticators” that collectors trust, the rest are trying to make money “authenticating” points. The fakers have deflated the value of authentic points.
And lastly, these were my dads. He dealt, traded and sold for 15-20 years. He actually got me into it, and the selling that followed. He had a collection of 10,000 points at one time. When he passed away, this was the only frame left, which happens to be the best of the best.
PS, all authenticated by one the most trusted authenticators.
The AA battery is for size reference.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f8415a6484.jpg
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Holy cow! Beautiful!
BKB
I’m with you when it comes to being fascinated about the history. Who made it? What did they do with it? Etc.
That is really cool, RT. Are the different shapes significant or just personal preference of the maker?
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Typically the shape, or point “type” can be traced to either a specific time period, or to specific region.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken Dinner
That drill in the middle is my favorite.
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That looks like a clovis at about 1:00. If it is, it is likely the oldest point in the frame.
BKB
That looks like a clovis at about 1:00. If it is, it is likely the oldest point in the frame.
But since the material all looks similar are they all from the same area?
BKB
I've picked up a few arrow points on my farm, thru the years.....surprisingly, they survived years of disking, plowing, and bushogging.....the Choctaws were very established in my area, so I guess, they were used primarily as bowhunting points.
As a side note, my most interesting find was three $1 dollar bills, dated from the '50's.....they were in one 40 acre field, but not in close proximity to each other.....just guessing, that they were prolly blown in here from a tornado that may have demolished someone's house from miles away in the southwestly direction from me.....I figured they might be good luck, so I keep one of them tucked away in my wallet. ;)
Also, there's some really experienced flint-knappers out there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7gjo_3egFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8T_BPl6g-Q
Since P-hole finally realized we know everything, I’ll tell you where that money came from. It drifted across the country in the jet stream before landing in your field. Can you say D. B. Cooper boys and girls? ;)
That is indeed a Clovis and definitely the oldest point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole
I believe these are from Georgia, at least most of them.
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What's the easiest way to spot a fake? Ever since watching that guy hammering these things out at that Pioneer Days thing, it's baffled me. He used the same method as ancient Indians, using all stone implements in the process. I mean, it's not like you can carbon date the things. An ancient arrowhead and a modern one would still be millions of years old, as far as the stone is concerned. I know certain area tribes had distinctive traits, but couldn't you simply duplicate whatever style you're trying to mimic? Using the correct stone for the area? I asked my vet about that once, but we didn't really have time to talk as he had another customer waiting and I needed to get going anyway. He did mention you could see the difference in wear ... if it looks "new", it may very well be. BUT, he said some of the makers will acid wash and sandblast their piece to add patina. I've gone to roadside souvenir shops out west that had large bins of arrowheads for like $1 each and I have to assume they were all recently "manufactured".
Is it way obvious to the trained eye? Or can modern "fakes" even fool the old-time collectors? I know, as a kid, I'd pick the things up in freshly plowed fields out in the middle of nowhere, so I have ZERO doubt they were authentic. But if buying from a private party, it seems like a coin toss. Is it really worth the price of professional authentication for a more common piece? I wouldn't be surprised if half the arrowheads out there these days used to have "Made in China" stickers on 'em!
I know when dealing with many counterfeit products, especially fake "old" stuff, the biggest giveaway is that the piece is too "perfect". A true antique and old hand-made items should show flaws and wear, etc. Like a CZ, a true diamond will not be perfect, but a CZ will. It seems, with an arrowhead, it would be easy to add flaws, chips, inclusions ... that sort of thing. It sucks that one should have to worry about crap like that.
Beautiful flint, Arty.. I have a few I've picked up over the years.. Two pretty decent axes are featured in Bruce Filabrant's book "Keokuk Axes".. which locks in their authenticity and adds significantly to their monetary value - makes them "highly collectible, if you will.. I have a good friend who is one axe away from 100 personal finds.. about unheard of. He's been doing some "buy/sell/trading" has several axes valued at ten thousand +.
Jim - as far as spotting fakes - the short answer is "no".. On flint, especially, these guys are getting "good". This buddy of mine hits several major shows around the country.. and the market is in constant turmoil about this.. Who owns it? - and who knows where it came from? and can either or both be trusted?.. I recently helped a couple collectors obtain pictures of a deceased friend with two flint points that sold for thousands. By obtaining those pics - it probably again raised the value astronomically. Quite frankly - this stuff is getting to be so valuable. it's scary.
You ever sit and wonder how that clovis got all the way from New Mexico to Georgia? Either those clovis people were traveling mofos or there was a lot of horsetrading going on. And horsetrading for what was a common item in those days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty
Amazing. They find those things all over NA.
BKB
I’m not sure if I posted this link or not, but this site helps identify points you may have found.
BKb
http://www.projectilepoints.net/