Well duh!

We have some very close friends who are total anti-vaxxers and the same extends down through their whole family. We've had a few, not "heated", but "warm" discussions on the subject, but I find myself constantly biting my tongue. Well, it seems the daughter's husband as well as both of their teenaged kids now have Covid. (SO FAR, she's escaped it, not sure how) I have to admit, due to the closeness of our friendship, I've had to REALLY fight the urge to say "I told you so", but what REALLY bothers me is that I'm having trouble offering any sympathy. That's just plain wrong and I understand that, but after "arguing" 'til I was blue in the face, I've developed a hard-assed, f-you attitude .... and I hate it. I've expressed my concern/sympathy to the family, but I can honestly say I don't really "feel" it. This sucks. :(

That’s because they don’t deserve your sympathy. [emoji48]


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My brother is choctaw and got vaxed very early on because the tribe had all of its employees done quickly. but for some reason he talks to everyone like he’s some antivaxxer. Now his daughter’s in-laws are both on vents. i get daily requests for prayers for people on vents or that suddenly took ill and are in the hospital. Its starting to hit a lot of people close to home and that’ll make it real. I think when the dam bursts they’ll be clamouring for the jab.

BKB

What I've had to do is keep things in perspective is to remember that I may disagree with peoples attitude about the needle but, it's their decision whether I like it or not. The same can be said about any other decision people make like drinking, smoking or who they marry or who they work for. We all do foolish things that hurt other people and in many cases we forge ahead in spite of the warnings from parents and friends. In retrospect I might say "Man I was stupid". In some cases what doesn't kill you makes you wiser, sadly with covid it may kill someone else close to you.

One of the freedoms we have in this country is that we can operate our business as we choose in regard the practices we choose in institute for both customers and employees. If you choose not to be vaccinated then you may find yourself unemployed or unable to eat at your favorite restaurant. You have to live with the decisions you make but live or die they are your decisions. I just hope they don't kill anybody

Bullshit, QA. Sorry for the tough retort but vaccinations and freedom are a false equivalency. We live in a society. Which calls for changes in behavior for the survival, not the ‘good’, of society. You aren’t free to piss in the city water supply. You are requiredto get rabies vaccinationsfor your pets. If this epidemic was smallpox there would be NO questions about vaccinations. Guess what? We had mandatory vaccinations with smallpox. And we had policethatrounded up theunvaxed and gave them shots involuntarily. In the US.
I’m tired of arguing about the legitimacy of people of doubt the efficacy of vaccines in the first place. And yep there are plenty of doctors and nurses who refuse the shot. Remember that when you ask advice of a health care ‘professional’. They haven’t conered the market on smart either.

This is about selfishness and a desire to appear smarter than everyone else.

BKB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole

If this epidemic was smallpox there would be NO questions about vaccinations....

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Yes, but those were traditional vaccines.... they actually prevented infection.

I warned you that the numbers were turning. And they continue to do so. The latest from England's health system on the Delta variant:

Attachment 12800

Source data: https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_36.pdf

There are probably some explanations for this. They did not break out those who had previously had covid but had not gotten vaccinated for example. I am not a medical specialist. It is not for me to say. But the numbers are in stark contrast to what we saw only a few months ago. Sadly we have such shoddy data in the US that trying to get a time sensitive update (or an accurate one) on such a fast moving problem is probably impossible. But this in in keeping with the trends that have been evident over the past few months.

I know patience is wearing thin. Mine too. I'm sick of the masks. Sick of the changes. Sick of the politicization. All of it. And this newest data tells me that it is way too early to let my temper flare up. And I'm sick of the new data too. :)

Pandemic ----------> Endemic

This is the change in mindset we have to make I think. It's here. It's not leaving. We have to start concentrating on how to treat sick people instead of wasting more time sitting around waiting on a magic bullet that may not show up. The labs should continue their work, no doubt about that. By all means keep looking for a way to beat Covid. But we have sick people in trouble right now and I think our effort on that end leaves a lot to be desired.

We're making the same mistake we made in treating AIDS.

Will

Willie, that is 1% rate of breakthrough cases. And how many of those breakthrough cases developed serious illness? Sorry, there will be breakthrough cases, especially with variants on therise. Those mutations don’t occur in the vaccinated population, but in the unvaccinated population.
If you’re going to try to prove to me that covid vaccinations don’t work as well because its mrna technology then you’ll need to find me stories of vaccinated people on ventilators and in icus and in morgues from covid breakthroughs.

BKB

One problem is, we’re so busy treating “sick people” who chose not to be vaccinated, that sick people with other problems can’t get into the ER. If some jackass runs a light and t-bones me, I’d say when I show up at the ER, they need to roll one of those sick anti-vaxxers out into the back alley. Sorry, but I’m getting tired of their b/s.

Something that really shocks me about COVID is how we talk about it, how it's portrayed in the news. Even this thread if you went back and read it, knew nothing about COVID, and drew a conclusion a person would think that if you got it it's a death sentence, and everyone who gets it is going to the hospital. That isn't the case. It's like a 6% chance of being hospitalized. I vaccinated because I think its the right thing to do in protecting everyone, but I'm also not willing to demonize others for not getting the shot.

I have no problems with mandatory vaccinations, in fact I would encourage it but until they find a cure for stupidity, people are going to do what they want to do as is their right under the current law ........... and they as well as others will unfortunately suffer the consequences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole

My brother is choctaw and got vaxed very early on because the tribe had all of its employees done quickly. but for some reason he talks to everyone like he’s some antivaxxer. Now his daughter’s in-laws are both on vents. i get daily requests for prayers for people on vents or that suddenly took ill and are in the hospital. Its starting to hit a lot of people close to home and that’ll make it real. I think when the dam bursts they’ll be clamouring for the jab.

BKB

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On a lighter note, this tune popped in my head when I saw this post…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEJPqJtZsk


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hombre

Something that really shocks me about COVID is how we talk about it, how it's portrayed in the news. Even this thread if you went back and read it, knew nothing about COVID, and drew a conclusion a person would think that if you got it it's a death sentence, and everyone who gets it is going to the hospital. That isn't the case. It's like a 6% chance of being hospitalized. I vaccinated because I think its the right thing to do in protecting everyone, but I'm also not willing to demonize others for not getting the shot.

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Right, 650,000 deaths is just a drop in the bucket. No problem with playing Russian Roulette with seven cylinders is only a 14% chance. Those sound like awesome odds too. Until you think of the fact there’s a bullet in there somewhere.
BKB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole

Willie, that is 1% rate of breakthrough cases....

Those mutations don’t occur in the vaccinated population, but in the unvaccinated population.

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Yes, 1% in three weeks. Those numbers on the end are rates per 100,000 within the 3 week period just ended.

To the second part: You don't know that. I don't know that. No one does. The delta variant evolved when we were still doing vaccine rollout in early spring. There is every indication that it evolved before we had anyone vaccinated. But we don't have a clue where the new mutations come from. But there are some really good people in immunology that are saying that the evolutionary pressure that this vaccine puts on the virus are more likely to produce a vaccine eluding variant. And there are some really good people in immunology that disagree.

Like I said we don't know. We barely know which continent it emerges from let alone from whose nostrils the newly mutated virus was expelled.

Will

Will, the efficacy of smallpox vaccine is 95%, about the same as the covid vaccines. And unless I’m mistaken, it doesn’t matter what time period we’re discussing in England, its the rate that matters. Yes, vaccinationsare greatly up in the UK. If the breakthrough case rate stayed the same the number of cases would logically increase.
I’m not sure of your point, but it seems to be that you think covid vaccines over the world are failing more and more and that is logic enough to question whether a vaccination for a person makes sense. What about Colorado? What about Mass, Ct, and Vermont? Their hospitals aren’t on theverge of collapse. Their covid rates per capita are the lowest in the nation. Conversely their vaccination rates are highest.
Its gotten to where its not even science any more. Its just common sense. And when faced with the common sense decision of the personal liberty of believing dubious shit over the health of family and friends and work associates, it still amazes me how people still falsely equate the two.
There are many examples of our government treading heavily on our personal privacy and freedoms in the name of national security. The draft is one that comes to mind. Rationing of all kinds even in my lifetime definitely comes to mind.
Like Spock said, ‘The needs of the many’.

BKB
BKB

It matters greatly Posty. What I'm saying is that things are moving fast and we are still learning what the covid vaccine does and does not do. Further what it is showing now is different than what it showed 4 months ago. At least by the numbers. Break-thru cases were much more rare 4 months ago. But you have to be careful with this data. There are some who have taken the raw data from recent UK health care releases and shouted to the sky that it shows a higher death rate for vaccinated than for unvaccinated... without correcting for co-morbidities etc.

Very dangerous to do that kind of thing. Just having a higher death rate without looking at who died and what their situation is will give you a skewed/incorrect conclusion. What it does show pretty conclusively is that deaths for both vaccinated and unvaccinated are happening and they are not nearly as rare as we would like. We can also say that the difference between infection rates has narrowed substantially in the last few months. At least in the UK it looks like the magic number is 40. If you are older the vaxxed have a higher rate of infection but under 40 the unvaxxed have a higher rate of infection.

But as far as I can tell your odds of getting covid notwithstanding your odds of dying are still a good bit lower with the vaccine. And even then I would want to see the meta data stuff that tries to correct for co-morbidities. If you are old (not your fault) or overweight or have diabetes etc I'm guessing you are still at much higher risk with or without the vax. That hasn't changed and I'd be surprised if it does.

No. There is a very real difference between a sterilizing vaccine (like the one for small pox) and the non-sterilizing vaccine (like the one for Covid). And I would caution you that the UK and Israel have two of the highest vax rates in the world and they are getting hammered with delta. You are making arguments that would be true with a sterilizing vaccine but not in a non-sterilizing one.

Will

An interesting study on emotional reactions to the figure of 1%.

When it's 1% for what you think is right, it's a good number!
When it's less than 1% for what you fear, another reaction
When it's a 1% growth of something, which way do you lean? do you think it's a good indicator or bad?

I have nothing helpful to contribute. Just noticing things since our Noticer-In-Chief seems preoccupied :D

I'll see myself out :D