Corn! We need more corn!

[BarryBobPosthole]

To make gas.

Ethanol, it seems, is suddenly a good idea now.

Maybe I should go into the small engine bidness.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

Ha, ethanol wreaks havoc on small engines.....just start out at the grass roots level, and buy some hogs.....feed 'em the corn, and collect their farts.....free methanol !!!!!

[LJ3]

I didn't know much about it. I googled some stuff and this seemed less biased than most of the drivel out there on the subject.

https://www.thebalance.com/the-pros-...ethanol-809300

[Thumper]

Youse dufes would bitch and moan if your driveways turned into gold bricks!

I've spent my life surrounded by gasoline engines and for the life of me can't see any evidence that ethanol is created by da' Debbil. Spending 20 years of my working years in the auto repair business, I can tell you we made a small fortune going through complete fuel systems (BEFORE ethanol) after an automobile was allowed to sit unused for any appreciable amount of time. We'd tow 'em in on the hook and the customer complaint would be, "We had to put granny into a nursing home last year, but now we're selling her stuff and her car won't run!" Duh, that's because that beloved non-ethanol gasoline has turned into varnish and thick "glue". Sorry, but we now need to pull the tank, clean it, replace the gummed up sending unit, flush all the fuel lines, replace all fuel filters, do a complete carb rebuild including "boil-out", replace that gummed up fuel pump and we "should be ok! Now, if that car had fuel injection ... well, you'd better scrap the car or take out a second mortgage!

Personally, I have NEVER had a problem with ethanol. My Honda 4-wheeler sat in my shed through 100-degree summer temps for something like 7-8 years when I decided I should sell it. I sold it to a buddy of mine who's a mechanic at the Toyota dealer. I told him it hadn't been started (or even moved) in close to 10 years, so he'd need to go through the fuel system to get it running. The day before he was to come over to pick it up, I aired the tires up and rolled it out of the shed. For shits and grins, I stuck the jumper cables to it to see if it would turn over and she fired right up! I couldn't believe it. It was smoking a bit, so I topped the tank off with fresh fuel and ran it a while. After a few mins, you'd never in a million years know it had been sitting, untouched for all those years. Heck, I never even shut the fuel line off and ran the carb dry when I stored it. In fact, I never even added Stabil or SeaFoam! (I hadn't planned on entering the hospital and almost kicking the bucket when I parked it).

Lawn mower, same thing. The last thing I was capable of for a few years after my hospital stay was bumping around the yard on a riding mower, I did the same as my 4-wheeler ... pumped up the tires, jumped it off and she purred like a kitten. Now I'll admit, I can't say the same about my chainsaw ... but wtf? It had pre-mix in the tank. I DID have to do a major clean-out to get it running again. I think all o'youse nay sayers just sit around thinking of something to blame your broken crap on. You're all FOS.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Now that was educational.

So what percentage of the margin in corn prices will the government be responsible for now?

BkB

[Big Muddy]

Well, I guess we've both been lucky, Thump.....me, for using non-ethanol, and you, for not using it.

[LJ3]

Looks like a 50/50 opinion split to me.

[Chicken Dinner]

And, I gummed up two edger/trimmers and one ATV carburetor before I wised up and dealt with the hassle of finding ethanol free gas in these parts. I figure there’s a reason Briggs and Stratton has a sticker in my lawn mower that’s says “No Ethanol”.


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[Thumper]

Then Briggs (junk motors to begin with) needs to catch up to the rest of the world and make their crappy gaskets and fuel lines out of something other than gum.

There's a certain snowflake here who needs to go back to the horse and buggy. Oh, oil wells are gonna totally "f" up the environment. Our National parks will be dead in the water and our oceans will be fishless ... and don't even THINK of fracking in MY back yard 'cause I ain't gots no earthquake insurance! I think ya' needs to scrap the Big White Johnson replacement motor and go back to oars when ya' want's ta' go fishing! Ethanol can be made from anything from grass to sugar cane. But screw that ... let's just keep the money train flowing to the Middle East. They need the cash.

[BarryBobPosthole]

It wasn’t me who trashed ethanol. When Obama raised the ethanol mandate you all, and every other Republican screamed like a scalded cat. Now that it’s conveniently three weeks before a mid term and Trump does it you think its wonderful.

I’d imagine any conservative though would prefer stable markets over subsidized ones. Bit you never know with the golden bone spur boy in office.

BKB

[Thumper]

It wasn’t me who trashed ethanol. When Obama raised the ethanol mandate you all, and every other Republican screamed like a scalded cat. Now that it’s conveniently three weeks before a mid term and Trump does it you think its wonderful.

I’d imagine any conservative though would prefer stable markets over subsidized ones. Bit you never know with the golden bone spur boy in office. BKB

Ummm, nope ... you didn't hear so much as a peep from me Flake Boy.

[Thumper]

Remember when the 5 mph bumpers were mandated in the early 70's? Talk about some FUGLY frigging cars! But, the manufactures sucked it up and designed the bumpers to blend in with the styling of the vehicle and these days, we don't even THINK about bumpers when we look at a new car.

Smog pump? Arggghhhh! The end of the automobile as we know it. We could get more power from our lawn mowers than the smog pump laden cars. Now? Who even thinks about such things?

Then there was the dreaded catalytic converter. Heavy, expensive and performance wise, about like stuffing a potato into your tail pipe. When is the last time you gave your converter a second thought?

Oh, then there were those fugly-assed mandated headrests. Wow, what albatrosses. Your rear view mirror was rendered useless as you couldn't even see past the darned things. Do you still hate 'em?

Unleaded gas? Say good-by to any semblance of performance and the stuff was KILLING engines ... ESPECIALLY SMALL ENGINES! Why? Lead was a "lubricant" and cushioned the valves when they contacted their seats in the head. Oh my! Valves would literally beat themselves to death until their heads fell off destroying the motor.

The list is endless. The point is, manufacturers designed their vehicles around the mandates and they became a non-issue. Small engine manufacturers need to get with the program. They need to quit their whining and playing the blame game ... then design their products to work with modern fuels. Or ... stay in the dark ages as they are doing now. I owned a company that relied 100% on small gas engines. In the 20 years I owned the business, I never had one ... not ONE engine failure attributed to ethanol fuel ... and that's ALL I ran in my equipment. Those (Honda) engines ALL ran super high hours ... if they weren't running, my income was ZERO. Even if they wouldn't start (another problem blamed on ethanol these days), I made zero money. They ALWAYS started.

Get with the 21st century ya' bunch'a whiners!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’ve had small engines fail but I don’t think I could point to ethanol being the cause.

I just wanted to poke the conservitards here because the mandate they seem to love now used to be the one they hated.

They made a huge deal in Oklahoma about it.

BKB

[Thumper]

TBH, I don't ever remember any real discussion here on the ethanol mandate. That doesn't mean we didn't ... I just don't recall it being an issue worth discussion.

Edit: I just entered "ethanol mandate" in the search feature and only came up with THIS thread.

I do remember Bucky saying ethanol turned his "wheelie" motor into Swiss Cheese. (but it was prolly termites!)

[Captain]

So I guess no carburetor ever clogged up before ethanol, there were no companies that made carburetors rebuild kits until ethanol came on to the scene.
Wonder what they blamed for carburetors and jets stopping up before ethanol came along?
Thank God for corn to blame for all those messed up carbs. No way any of those other chemicals in gas have any effect on anything
Does no one but me remember old gas going bad smelling like varnish?
What we gonna blame for leaking batteries?

[Thumper]

Ahhh, I was wondering when the North Carolina contingent was going to chime in.

With the farm and all the property he has to take care of, I'll bet he has a pile of ethanol ruined small engines piled to the ceiling in a barn someplace.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Sea Foam!

[Thumper]

Sea Foam!

Actually, yes ... that would help. If you're gonna park your snowblower at the first sign of Spring ... throw a little bit of SeaFoam or Sta-Bil in that tank of nasty ethanol gas ... no different than what you'd do with NON-ethanol gas.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Y’all are sure smart!

BKB

[Captain]

And we are unappreciated too....

[Thumper]

This ethanol talk reminds me of the "old days" of fuel with no ethanol. One of the problems with ethanol fuel sitting in your tank for long periods of time is the fact alcohol absorbs water. That's fine if you have a bit of water in your fuel, but the problem is, it will also absorb it out of the air. To have that gunk sitting in your carburetor bowl, may cause a problem when you come back 9-months from now to start your snowblower. But I digress ... back to the good ol' days. An old shade tree mechanic taught me a trick when I was a wee lad. He had an old car he was working on that had been setting for quite a while. I remember him pulling the top off the carb and was a bit upset to find water in there. He cleaned it up, bolted the top back on, then went into the house, coming back out with a bottle of isopropyl alcohol he'd snagged from the medicine cabinet in his bathroom. He dumped it into the tank and shook the car back and forth to mix it in with the fuel, then started the car to let it run a while. I asked him what the "rubbing alcohol" was for and he said it's not really rubbing alcohol, but actually isopropyl he kept as an antiseptic. He did say "rubbing alcohol" would work, but isopropyl alcohol was better. He told me it would absorb the water in the fuel system and it would just burn out along with the gasoline.

Many years later, I was driving from here to Memphis as I had an old h/s girlfriend who came down with breast cancer and I went to help comfort her for a few days (just before her scheduled surgery). On the way, I filled up with gas in Georgia someplace and as I got back on the Interstate, my truck ('87 Toyota) started running like crap. It finally got to the point I couldn't get over 50 mph. I got off at the next town and bought a fuel filter at an auto parts store. I installed it and all was well. I got back on the Interstate and a ways down the road, the same crap happened! I limped into the next town and bought another replacement filter. The truck ran fine ... UNTIL I got back down the road a ways and the same problem kicked in. I again limped into town, bought a filter, but when I pulled it, I placed a McD's cup I'd pulled out of the trash at the fuel hose and drained about a half cup of gas into the cup. There was my culprit, small water bubbles on the bottom of the cup. That last tank of gas I'd bought had a bunch of water in it! I was laying out in the parking lot of a small strip center and walked into a little drug store there, then bought a bottle of isopropyl alcohol. I AGAIN replaced the filter, poured the alcohol into the tank, sloshed it around a bit, then hit the Interstate. I made it all the way to Memphis without further incident.

I don't know why I had to write this, it's just that the talk of ethanol reminded me of that story. (AND, you may have learned something ... like I learned from that old-timer shade-tree mechanic).

[Chicken Dinner]

My bad, it’s actually a Honda motor on my mower with the “no ethanol” sticker.


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[Thumper]

My bad, it’s actually a Honda motor on my mower with the “no ethanol” sticker.

Ha ha! Nice try ....

What kind of fuel should I use in my Honda equipment?

Honda equipment is certified and designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline. Honda equipment is designed for good performance and efficient operation using gasoline containing from 0 to 10% ethanol.

[Chicken Dinner]

Busted!

But, not the 15% they’re talking about now...


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[Thumper]

Busted!

But, not the 15% they’re talking about now...

Your noticer skills are slipping. Where have you seen E15 mentioned in this thread? We've basically been talking about ethanol vs. non-ethanol gas and how it destroys small engines.

The lifting of the mandate is mostly centered around the fact ethanol fuel can now be sold during the summer months. Trump raised the 10% allowance to 15%, but I'm sure 15% will be a bit hard to find as the manufacturers are set up for 10% production. (BTW, E15 can actually be anything from 10.5% to 15% ethanol) All outlets would have to change their signage and labeling at the retail level. IF you find 15% at a gas station, it'll be great for those with "flex-fuel" or E85 graded automobiles.

E15 is nothing new ... it's been around for years. It's just that most gas stations are set up for E10.

E15label.jpg

[Penguin]

Thermodynamically ethanol from corn has always been a losing proposition. Sugar cane? That can be a different story.

As far as engine harm goes? Both have their bad points. Ethanol does gather water and no fuel stabilizer will work on this. And it does separate. IOW it will separate into a low ethanol gasoline region and an almost entirely ethanol region (on the bottom). THIS is your biggest danger with ethanol.

Gasoline, as Jimmy stated, will gum up in your fuel system. And that's lethal too.

Answer: Run ethanol once in a while to get the cleansing effect on your fuel system but beware storing it over the winter.

[Chicken Dinner]

In all honesty, storing it over winter is what got me in trouble. Thump doesn’t have. Winter and Captain doesn’t store anything and that’s prolly why they were fine.


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[Arty]

So I guess no carburetor ever clogged up before ethanol, there were no companies that made carburetors rebuild kits until ethanol came on to the scene.
Wonder what they blamed for carburetors and jets stopping up before ethanol came along?
Thank God for corn to blame for all those messed up carbs. No way any of those other chemicals in gas have any effect on anything
Does no one but me remember old gas going bad smelling like varnish?
What we gonna blame for leaking batteries?

Small engine carbs are shit today because most are made in China. Hell, a lot you can’t even rebuild.